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Renewable hardware - zero vat could be charged

  • 29-11-2022 8:22pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 76 ✭✭


    In February 2022 the eu announced member states could reduce vat charged on renewable hardware to between zero and 5%. I don’t know the complete list but it does include solar pv equipment, batteries and heatpumps i believe.

    since may I have emailed the Green Party and various others to ask if this would be implemented in Ireland - I believe it would be a cheap low to zero cost way for the government to increase various types of renewable installations, perhaps reduce costs and even increase the number of installers/ wholesalers and so government tax intake

    i am most interested in solar pv but have been disillusioned with the large price rises and basically gouging by seai registered installers.

    for example I have an easy flat roof install and my cheapest quote now net of grant and net of vat from an seai installer is nearly €11,000 for 6kw inverter and 8kw of panels. Installer has agreed it’s a one day job - cable run through roof already done and very short cable runs internally.

    i believe installers would charge 13.5% vat these days, not sure if the two thirds rule applies or if this is a government approved rate for installs

    the hardware cost for me from an Irish wholesaler is €6,000 inc vat at 23% so net of vat that would be €4,880 - some €6,000 less that the installer would charge and of course they would also receive around €2,000 grant money net of ber, and probably a discount on hardware - nice money for two people for little longer than a day

    if I buy at €4800 with zero vat the gov does lose the vat but does not pay the grant (to be fair they will lose the vat charged by the installer). The gov will get the data re my installation as final connection to the consumer board and nc6 need to be completed by a reci registered electriciation - the gov can get the data from esb networks

    after hearing Jenifer whitmore td for sd’s on Newstalk back in early October I contacted her and again after she was on a few weeks ago. She confirmed she had read my original email and agreed with my points.

    she has since tabled an amendment to the finance act 2022 which should be finalised before the end of the year proposing that vat is reduced to zero on renewable hardware . I also mentioned a few other things to her such as no need for seai registered installers, grants being pointless etc

    the reduction of vat alone wont have much impact on the price for those of you who use an seai installer to get the grant but it will make a large difference to those that can do mostly self installs or if upgrading/changing equipment in the future (changing/replacing inverters, adding upgrading batteries etc)

    anyway I would urge anybody interested to contact their local td in the next couple of weeks to ask them to support the amendment - it can only increase the use of renewables I think

    to work it needs to be simple with no seai/government involvement whatsoever - no forms to fill in or vat reclaim to be done . Just head to the wholesalers, buy some kit and the vat is zero if it conforms to the eu rules . They can keep the grant rules the same, nothing needs to change there (although the grant system is terrible).

    as I said to Jennifer - I and many others might not want or be able to spend €11,000 for solar via seai installers whereas €4,800 plus a bit of self labour and maybe €2,000 of work from a reci and roofer might be a lot more palatable. For me I am looking at tops €1,000 for professional help on top of the hardware, huge savings

    this is not political and I have no affiliation to the sd’s, Jennifer is the only person/department that I contacted that was interested . The reply from one green td and lack of follow up was a tad shocking, I really don’t know why

    sorry for the lack of fullstops but the double tap on the iPhone has stopped working with boards



Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 890 ✭✭✭Ultimanemo


    Very true, I got two quotes, when I searched the price of the hardware they are installing, I decided not to install solar, I will keep burning turf



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭SD_DRACULA


    The 0% vat is yet another scam which simply exists to line the pockets of installers while shafting the consumer.

    The UK have it and the way it works is quite stupid, it is up to the installer to manage it and you as a customer still get charged the full VAT rate if you go out and buy the parts.

    As idiotic as the 10% cashback on new builds here which didn't do anything but raise prices by 10% and lined the builders' pockets.

    The morons at the EU stage are talking a big game about renewables but 0 commitment to real and impactful change.



  • Registered Users Posts: 806 ✭✭✭omicron


    As long as demand for installation exceeds installers and supplies available zero VAT will only increase margins for suppliers, costs won't come down.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭kabakuyu


    If the house holder can purchase his own hardware at 0% VAT and arrange his own installation of course prices will come down.Some installers are price gouging at epic proportions at the moment(look at the qoutes thread)the SEAI rules make it easier for "installers" to bamboozle and take advantage of the householder by maintaining only they can do the install to get the grant.Any competent sparks can do installations, we need competition in the marketplace, otherwise solar will be the preserve of the well off and those who get it free,the people in the middle will get squeezed out again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 64,285 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Fair play to you @carbuncle. I fully agree. What's the point of promoting greener ways if most of the money it is costing the tax payer (SEAI grant) is going to labour and profit for the install company. Much more effective if it goes directly into the greener product (as in VAT reduction on parts only, not on labour)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,356 ✭✭✭DC999


    Hey, great idea. But it's gonna be hard to get traction going at it person by person. And I don't mean that to take away from your ideas. Have you thought about contacting an environmental group and asking them to pursue it? Friends of the Earth is a good Irish one. http://foe.ie/

    They run email and social media campaigns so people can email the TDs in their constituency. So your ideas then get much greater impact.  

    They have an energy transition campaign, could be perfect for that: Our Projects | Friends of the Earth (foe.ie)

    Have another on solar regulations for school (to remove the planning part afaik), so they are already somewhat solar aware: Friends of the Earth | Home Page (foe.ie)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭Galego




  • Registered Users Posts: 77 ✭✭grennscreener


    Grants need to go. All they're doing is putting in place a minimum price. Tax breaks are again money into the back pockets of the installers and won't help people getting renewables at all.

    A far better way would be the gov. selling a bond to raise funds and giving people loans for little to no interest over a long period of time (rules requiring you to spend the money on renewables). The money is put in the consumer's pockets and the companies can compete for it.



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