Full house rewire - any tips?...

brianc89

I'm about to get my house rewired. It is an 1900 built redbrick in Dublin city, still has the old twisty fuse board!!

An electrician is doing it of course. I wanted to get some recommendations of what to include:

• 1) type of plug socket - usb, WiFi booster, etc.

• 2) ethernet connections / boxes - we want one in each bedroom, living and dining rooms. We currently have old UPC / Virgin boxes in each room with the circular connection. What's the done thing / recommendation these days?

• 3) heating controls?... I'm assuming we'll have manual temperature dials on each radiator so don't think we need anything from electrical side.

• 4) any other recommendations for future proofing or "smart housing"?

• 5) any future proofing required for installation of solar panels? We plan to do this in the near future.

10-10-20

Yes, provide ethernet points in bedrooms if you're going to extend the media systems to them. Also provide ethernet sockets for the heavy users which should not be on WiFi - such as TV's themselves, gaming computers and a central comms location and maybe to a work-desk, then also put one or two sockets high-up for WiFi repeaters so that you can extend the WiFi into further part of the house - sufficient for at most two repeaters. Have power sockets along-side them too. That way all of the smaller IOT devices can be on the WiFi and be undisturbed by the high-bandwidth devices.

Consider running power and ethernet out to a potential EV charging point too - if you have your own driveway.

Will you be looking to install CCTV cams? If so, they are best off using PoE (power over ethernet), but wire them back to the central comms location and you can install a small PoE switch in that location for those devices when you need.

Go for a smart heating system such as the Drayton one. Other options are Shelly TRV's, but I haven't tested them yet.

Solar - leave room in the consumer unit for additional breakers (as well as for EV charging) and have space for an inverter too.

Alkers

See if you can include some duct runs between rooms for running cables at a later date once you have floorboards up.

Note where they start and stop so they can be accessed again

Citizen Six

Get two way switches, for your bedroom lights, put in on either side of the bed. Get 5amp sockets for places where you want to have lamps.

For solar, as well as connections to the roof/attic, make sure you get it wired for a battery system, for future use.

As mentioned above, make sure your fuse board has room for expansion. Three rows at least.

Wire for CCTV, even if you don't plan on needing it now.

Power and data cable for EV charging.

Run co-ax from outside, to a central point inside, so suppliers don't have to drill into your house. Then wire from central point to where you want TV. I got lucky, and was able to wire three co-ax direct into the junction manhole in the street.

kirk.

Flush Pirs for communal areas toilets

Saves so much time

Don't get bogged down with smart control of lighting and smart sockets , totally overrated

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119906444#Comment_119906444

What's the best system now is it mesh WiFi or ethernet?

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119906624#Comment_119906624

Horses for courses. WiFi for general (small/portable) device connectivity, ethernet for high-bandwidth devices and AP's is my method.

Mesh WiFi is fine for expanding existing installations where none of the AP's (access points) are interconnected by ethernet. In a mesh only one device is connected to the router/gateway and the individual mesh nodes (AP's) then group together to construct the connectivity paths back to the main router/gateway.

But if you're laying out ethernet cables for a new install then you don't need a mesh, you just need AP's all on the same WiFi SSID (and password & encryption) and let the individual AP's all route the traffic back to the router/gateway over ethernet (called "backhaul") instead of re-sending it over WiFi.

Mesh (dotted lines are mesh WiFi paths):

Ethernet backhaul (dotted lines are wired):

Crash

Here's mine, having gone through this back in Jan:

1. Personally, don't bother trying to get fancy in-built wall sockets - standards change, approaches change, and these date pretty heavily.
2. Similarly, don't bother wiring for sound in a living room - days of wired Home Theatre equipment feels fairly done.
3. Ethernet vs. mesh - I didn't get our place wired for ethernet because it's a 120 sqm semi-d with fairly thin brick internal walls, so instead went with coax to by tv, router -> switch with all the hard working devices (Playstation, home theater pc, etc.) directly connected, and then a mesh wifi network using 3 google nest wifi points. Works perfectly for 2 people working from home fulltime, plus heavy use of the devices above. That said, if the walls were thicker, or the house was bigger, I would have wired instead.
4. Overestimate on plug sockets - it'll never be cheaper / less hassle to put a socket in than now, and you'll never turn around and say "I wish I had 100 quid in my pocket rather than that extra plug".
5. Even if your oven is gas, IMO run an electrical spur for an electric oven. I'm debating changing, and regret not doing this.
6. bare minimum, get them to run a spur for an electric vehicle charging point, if you have parking. Maybe go full hog and get it installed, and get the SEAI grant. Again, a lot easier to do it now.
7. I regret not getting them to put a powerpoint out front as well - or again, at least a spur for bike shed (electric bike), front garden lighting, electric gate, etc.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119906817#Comment_119906817

All good points.

I'll just add "Even if your oven is gas, IMO run an electrical spur for an electric oven. I'm debating changing, and regret not doing this." that the same applies for a hob.

And that you can't get the SEAI grant for a charger without an EV (that I know of) so perhaps just install the wiring out to the isolator at this point and go for the grant for the charger if you get the car.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119906817#Comment_119906817

Wiring for sound is really cheap. And if you don't have wired speakers, how are you going to charge wireless ones?

Crash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119906877#Comment_119906877

SEAI grant is now open for all

https://www.seai.ie/grants/electric-vehicle-grants/electric-vehicle-home-charger-grant/

and re: wiring for sound - yeah look, personal preference on that one. current living room not so big that a good soundbar doesn't get 90% of the way there, and next move would likely be a Sonos or similar with wireless satellite speakers (I have plug sockets in all the corners that subwoofer & satellites would go in anyway).

Would also echo the point someone made above of any prep-work for solar/battery that could be done without being crazy expensive would likely be worth it now. Hard to overstate just how much dust cable chasing produces.

kirk.

Is wiring for home sound done?

I can see a lot of stuff changing but not that

StupidLikeAFox

Get him to run alarm cables to the windows and doors. You'll need a qualified alarm installer to complete the job but the electrician can run the cables for you and you can get it commissioned somewhere down the line if you wanted

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119906959#Comment_119906959

I ran speaker cables to a bunch of locations in my house, in the ceiling, and locations marked. But I just can't really see a system now where I'd use it. I've got an alexa in the bath room that works perfect for my needs.

I ran cables for 5.1 to ceiling points for the front and rear channels too, but only use the rear ceiling points at the moment. I don't think a sound bar could give me the sound quality that I want.

My electrician didn't run solar cables as specced for PV, so I've to do extra work now to upgrade that. I only have cables for a single string back to my inverter. It'll be a pain to run another string, and install the battery, but worth it when I get it done.

I told a mate what cables to get his electrician to install, and his roofer to install mounts, so this year he was able to put in PV with very little cost or disruption.

brianc89

Amazing!!! Thanks for all these responses, super helpful. We'll have a good chat with our electrician.

Our terraced house opens onto a public footpath with on-street parking, but parking is not assigned. No idea what the "plan" will be regarding EVs for houses like ours. Our fuse box is right beside front door so we'll just deal with that later!!!

We'll probably just keep our WiFi box in the middle of the house and have the ethernet cables in each room, no mesh. We have a "smart" heating control box which connects to the WiFi, so we'll stick with something similar. Don't think we need separate WiFi heat controls in each room.

brianc89

Oh and we definitely want to future proof for solar. I'd hope to install that in the next year or 2. We'll discuss with our electrician.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119907823#Comment_119907823

There's no way I can see speaker cabling being obsolete

You always need power to drive speakers

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119906762#Comment_119906762

A wired hub and cable testing is as far as my capabilities go

Wired is such a simple troublefree system

G-Man

Simple guideline, in living areas between every door and window make sure there is at least one socket. Also something similar for kitchen , but add extra ones near , end of kitchen units, or maybe over any isolated counter space. Bedrooms add one on walls between fitted units and doors/windows.

Future ducting worked better for me than wired ethernet. I added the cables later myself only where its needed. And again only put ducting in critical important points e.g. tv point to under the stairs and under the stairs to attic.. However ducting is harder to fit as it taeks up more space.

Try to have sockets in a place where they are accessible. Being able to switch off vampire power is great benefit .

A socket in the attic would have been great too and one external one.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119909035#Comment_119909035

We have public on street parking, but I still ran a cable to our boundary, just so it's there if I need it in the future.

There's a device called Charge Arm, that swings out over a public footpath, from your property, that allows you to charge on street, without a trip hazard. I've seen them in a few places here in Dublin already.

kirk.

I'd consider a fire alarm panel , decent EI 3024 alarms are expensive .Doubt there's all that much difference in price between the two systems

Dont fit the cheap ionisation alarms anyhow and also add a control

kirk.

Is ducting for ethernet worth the bother ?

Surely simpler to put in the wiring on the first fix

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119910412#Comment_119910412

Yeah, the cable is so cheap. Just run it everywhere and decide later.

L1011

Just get normal plug sockets. Putting stuff that wears out (USB chargers) or gets old (USB connection types, wifi noise-machines that really don't extend range at all) in to the fixed wiring is a surreal idea that has recently become popular.

I had a rewire earlier this year and went for ethernet + twin coax everywhere, power and ethernet (often required) for a car charger is in even though I don't have an electric car yet; and a spare lighting and socket circuit installed under the kitchen floor in the direction of where I'm considering an extension - very little added cost to avoid taking the floor up if we do; or I could bring them to a shed in future for not a lot of effort to retrieve them. I've suspended floors, though.

kirk.

Manufacturers keep making stuff that people don't need

Half of these tech gadgets are creating more problems than they're solving

monseiur

Hi OP Seeing that your house is over 120 years old, do you plan to have all new electrics installation surface mounted or concealed ?

Citizen Six

I have usb sockets in a bunch of places, and I love them. From the same range as my normal sockets, so everything looks the same. I wouldn't worry too much about the tech evolving. You'll still have the cables to charge what you need. Only one I've an issue with his usb c to lightening cable that came with my iPad. But that's for use with a higher rated charger plug. Still works fine with usb a cable.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119910837#Comment_119910837

Hsve you seen the fones lately , dunno is there much point to basic usb sockets

Maybe if you'd other usb stuff to plug in I suppose

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119910894#Comment_119910894

Aren't they mostly usb c? But most likely usb a on the other end.

Haven't got a mobile with wireless charging yet myself.

I also use them to charge my bike lights, my garmin gps and other devices.

Crash

Yeah but you are missing out on things like fast charging - in which case you're now going to use a plug instead of the inbuilt wall socket as well. As batteries get bigger / higher capacity, that inbuilt wall socket charger will be less and less useful due to time to charge.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119910822#Comment_119910822

We're installing insulated plasterboard on exterior walls so we'll be able to build the plug sockets into the walls.

It's a red brick house opening onto the footpath so we can't insulate the exterior. Now it's a balance of insulation thickness versus space lost in the room!

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119910924#Comment_119910924

Yeah it won't be long before all charging wires will be USB-C on each end. The USB-A ports could be obsolete within 10years or so.

We're not gonna include any USB ports though. My phone needs the specific adapter for fast charging.

magicbastarder

would be interested to know how much you're paying; we asked five different electricians last year, only two showed up to spec a quote out and only one actually provided a quote in the end - and it was over €16k for a ~130sqm house.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119911385#Comment_119911385

Just looking at a new iphone, and it only comes with a usb c to lightening cable. So I'll have to buy a cable to use with my sockets. Doesn't even come with the plug adapter. 😂

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119911404#Comment_119911404

Our house is 110sqm. We are fully rewiring about 80sqm, this includes the kitchen, living room, utility, 2x bedrooms and 2x shower rooms.

The electrician is going to install a secondary fuse box on the rear of the house to facilitate future works there. The rear of the house will have 2 bedrooms only, so it won't have heavy electrical needs.

We have been quoted 10k but expect it will increase a few 1000 when we add Solar PV prep and other items brought up in this thread.

magicbastarder

would you be able to PM me the name of the company you're using?

meercat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119911534#Comment_119911534

they won’t be able to certify your installation to the new regulations (IS10101) if some of the existing wiring is left in place. If a certificate cannot be issued then This may affect your connection into the esbn meter.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119911726#Comment_119911726

Sorry never got back on this. We took out our sledgehammer and tore into the house 😂

The rear part of the house, which isn't being renovated, is currently one large bedroom and a misshapen corridor. We will be reconfiguring this into 2 bedrooms later.

For now our electrician will require two ceilings lights and two plug sockets which will do the job for now, so it will be all compliant.