Siblings and care of elderly parent

Esho

Hi

Is it normal that half the sibs want to help out - visiting, meals, errands - and the other half are nowhere to be found when this arises?

rolling boh

Pretty common though they can get involved quick enough when the will comes around .Though you do get situations where a single person will be seen as being able to do more than others with a family of their own or how near they live to the parent .

Tork

Yep, it's a tale as old as time. From what I've observed, the larger the family, the more likely you'll have siblings who step away. Ideally, the ones who aren't as involved in the caring will step up to the plate when they're needed but there's no guarantee that'll happen. There are people who'll flatly refuse to give the main carers a dig out, or will come up with excuse after excuse. Every family is different of course.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058272466/siblings-and-care-of-elderly-parent

Absolutely, yes. It always seems to happen that way.

If even half are willing to help, you're doing well!

Esho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119894961#Comment_119894961

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119894961#Comment_119894961

Yes, back of the queue when it comes to work, front of the queue when it comes to a payout.

But I don't get why some sibs don't want to take care of their parents. If they are working two jobs, I get it. But if they just won't make the time, it's messed up.

It's a wierd one for me, and it's difficult to nor see my sib as a worthless POS over it

Don't want to judge, but I'm judging!

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119895623#Comment_119895623

I don’t get this strange attitude by which people are supposed to look after their parents. If you feel obliged to look after them then do it, but your sibling might have very good reasons not wanting to waste their time in this way.

Discuss the practicalities of care and share the cost, but you really shouldn’t expect them to feel the same way you do.

FintanMcluskey

Your relationship with your siblings is not tested until a parent requires hands on care.

It always causes friction.

Many people mention they have kids so they can look after them when they are older. That's the exact type of person that shouldn't have kids

naughtyboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119895623#Comment_119895623

Sometimes if people feel like they are not going to inherit an elderly parents assets they will make zero effort

This was true for me, when my dad needed care and when my sister asked for help I was straight up with her and said as she was living rent free her whole life and was getting everything left to her she should do the caring .

Montage of Feck

It really is a thankless task, I've seen it on both sides of my own family where the primary female carers got screwed over on inheritance and gratitude.

bitofabind

Families are complicated. Many parents are abusive, narcissists, alcoholics or parented siblings differently and some some siblings aren't going to feel indebted to taking care of them in their old age. Estranged / scapegoated siblings aren't likely to want to suddenly appear and let their lives be taken over by caring for people who deeply impacted their lives through bad parenting.

Inheritance might be unfairly skewed towards "favourite" child/children and that will cause tension. Siblings grow up and have families of their own that makes them less available. And then there'll be some siblings who take over which causes others to step back.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119894961#Comment_119894961

Depends on the person. Some times it's single people who walk away, sometimes its People with families.

Whichever you'll soon see who values money over family either way.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119895727#Comment_119895727

It's usually single people who think that's why People have kids. People with kids, learn early that kids will make their own decisions in life.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058272466/siblings-and-care-of-elderly-parent

Simply yes.

What's more they'll deny it afterwards.

Esho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119895727#Comment_119895727

Thanks for this. Not fair to have this expectation , but still can't leave parent high and dry before a proper care plan is put in place

Esho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119896075#Comment_119896075

Really good points thanks for this

Esho

These are great.

Still can't understand how someone won't discommode themselves for 3 hours a week to visit or cook a meal or whatever, unless as was said, the parent was a monster of some sort.

As it seems to be normal - it's taken the heat out of my judgement - thanks all.

You have to look out for yourself, and the degree to which people are happy to stray from that to help others varies from saint to selfish tightwad in my experience. Why should it be different here i suppose.

Flinty997

If you are at this point. You should start getting in home help, meals on wheels, alone. These things take a long time to set up. It's often a different face visiting that's a life saver. Our local community used to deliver a coffee and scone once a week and it things like this that are greatly anticipated.

There can also be places like day centers that will collect people for the day that run activities or simply to have company.

Also start looking at nursing homes. They have long waiting lists. Some will suit more than others. It's good to have this decided before you need it in crisis situation. They are not ideal, and many won't want them. But for many the anxiety and loneliness becomes all consuming and the mitigated by a nursing home situation.

It's likely you'll have to organize this yourself as the absent siblings won't.

HildaOgdenx

Not unusual, OP.

Had a friend in this situation a couple of years ago. Three siblings, two (including my friend) did all the minding that they could until such time as the parent had to go into a nursing home. They then did all the visiting, the errands, and were on call for trips to hospital when required.

When the parent died, the sibling who had done absolutely nothing thought it would be a great idea for them to move into the former family home. That did not happen.

Agree with previous posters about getting as much support as possible in place.

There are some links in this thread that might be worth looking at.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2056375062/a-few-links-to-sites-of-interest

There's also this thread which might have some helpful pointers.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2057253409/useful-links-information#latest

Mind yourself.

zg3409

Some family get very interested when money for carers is discussed. 24/7/365 at home may cost 50,000 euro a year. Lots of agencies will provide carers if you pay big money. Naturally try to get free or subsidised services but approach family to pay if they are not willing to help. Explain the cost per hour and the needs. If they won't contribute then the cost may come from remortgaging the house or pensions or savings. This may impact inheritance and those who may he due inheritance may suddenly be interested.

The fair deal scheme means government takes your home after you are dead.

You can get carers allowance as a family member it's not much but better than nothing.

You can't make family help, but you can try get them suddenly interested.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119896304#Comment_119896304

I spent seven years doing fraud and insolvency work back in the 80s and the one thing I learned from that experience is that people will always amaze you! Some people appear to be the nicest, kindest people you could meet, but scratch the surface and it turns out they are thieving little bast@#$&s who have not concerns for anyone but themselves. And vice verse others you expect to be the bad guys turn out to be very decent people. There is nothing a human being could that would surprise me now - I have low expectations.

I have two kids in their early twenties, one of whom, my son, has Asperger’s Syndrome. If you had asked me five years ago I’d have said my daughter for the obvious reasons would be more likely to be the caring kind. Today I’d actually say my son. If it is convenient I can expect my daughter will do me a good turn… where as my son will go the extra mile for us. Being an aspie things we take for granted takes a lot out of him mentally - such as going shopping to buy flowers and yet he does it every year since he started working. Like I said, there is no accounting for people’s behavior.

Flinty997

Fair deal is a lot more nuanced than that.

babyboom

It's a very common problem. I'm the sibling who did the caring for my elderly mam. My two brothers live farther away but their kids are grown up and have left home while my three are still in my house, one with additional needs and one with ongoing mental health issues. I did the personal care, cleaning, shopping, gardening, appointments, bill payments, banking etc. One brother said it was too far from him to visit and the other basically said he didn't care at all. I was at breaking point last year as my mother is a very very difficult woman and, out of the three of us, she has always given me the hardest time. I was actually suicidal and told my brothers it was either her or me that had to go. As it turned out she took a turn in December which resulted in hospital admission. When assessed in hospital they decided she could no longer live at home. She is now in a nursing home down beside eldest brother.

I visit every three weeks despite my brother claiming the distance was too far when the visiting was the other way around. He might drop in once a week despite living 10 minutes away. Luckily two of his children also live in the area and they drop in to see her occasionally as well. The guilt of her being placed in a nursing home nearly killed me but it couldn't continue the way it was. My relationship with my brothers has improved since mam has moved into care but it was non existent for the past few years before that. That's the saddest part of the scenario. I could barely look at them on the rare occasions I saw them. They have now held up their hands and admitted that they treated me appallingly and the eldest says he doesn't know how I did it. He can barely spend an hour with mam without losing the will to live.

Best of luck with your situation. It's very unfair but seems to be the same in almost every family.

3DataModem

Every child has a different relationship with their parents, and having seen what I've seen, I'm pretty non-judgemental about individuals choosing to distance themselves from care.

There's no such thing as "fair"... it is what it is.

I think one of the problems we have in Ireland is that elderly people feel entitled to define who and how they get cared for ("I don't want any outsiders" ... "I'm not leaving my home"... etc) and that is ultimately the source of a lot of problems. Some siblings want to indulge these requests and some realise they are unreasonable.

Flinty997

Blame the sick and elderly for being sick and elderly and needing care. Nice.

The source of the problem is the lack of resources for the care of the elderly in Ireland.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119900366#Comment_119900366

If there are children fit and able to look after a parent, then there isn't a lack of resources in that case.

I'd say that scenario is replicated thousands of times around the country.

Tork

I have a friend who took a career break to look after her mother. The family is large and mostly live in counties/countries far away. They gave her financial support to do the caring and she got good support from some of the siblings who don't live nearby. Some of them traveled home from time to time to give her a break. The sibling who lived nearest to her couldn't have been more unhelpful. He showed no interest in helping out at all. Worse still, when an emergency arose and my friend needed somebody to keep an eye on her mother for a few hours, her brother refused to help. She had to get a neighbour in. That, OP, is what can and does happen in the real world. It looks like you're about to see a new side to somebody you thought you knew.

The only advice I can give you is to be a bit selfish yourself. By all means do some caring if that's what's needed and what you want to do. BUT don't blow your life and career up over it. When all this is over - and it will be - you still have a life to live. Stand your ground and don't facilitate other people's selfishness.

whippet

Every family is different and circumstances will be different for every member of the family.

I’ve lost both my mam and dad in the last three years and the preceding 6 years were spent dealing with long term illnesses, dementia and nursing homes.

I am one of 5 siblings and without question I was responsible for about 90% of everything that had to be done for them, the house, paperwork, finances. I spent years over to them at least once a day in the house, doing basic chores, shopping, gardening etc.

Two of my siblings live abroad and the other two are relatively close by - but would only do something if specifically asked - and even then it was almost always met with a response as to how inconvient it was.

For my dad’s funeral I organised absolutely everything - my siblings almost treated it as a family reunion. It wasn’t that I took over - they just showed no interest or gumption to think about what needs doing.

When my mam passed I swore that I wouldn’t be left hanging again - I even told them straight out. But yet again - it was me (with a little help from one sister) who organised everything.

There are still things that need to be done in the house and sorting out belongings and despite asking siblings to do stuff - it never gets done and I just end up doing it.

Funnily enough - when I asked them to get PPS numbers sent to the solicitor to kick of probate they jumped all over it and all have great ideas as to what can be done with the house (it’s actually more of a site on some valuable land) … but yet not one of them has offered to help out with the process.

I have promised myself that I won’t fall out with them about it - but it is getting hard not to.

It has been said to me by family and friends of my mam and dad that they were both really appreciative of everything I did for them in the last few years and that everyone knows what I did - so that is of some comfort and re-enforces the point that people do things for different reasons - for me it was making sure mam and dad had everything they needed. My siblings were just content to know that I was looking after them

I’m in no rush for any inheritance and I’ll see how long I can drag the probate process out for just to annoy them !

whippet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119900084#Comment_119900084

You actually sound like one of my siblings - that was more or less their attitude to my elderly parents. They were an inconvenience in their lives when things got tough. Personally I find that sort of an attitude as a weakness and an inability to move out of a comfort zone.

shesty

I watched my dad and his siblings do this not long ago.

And my mam and her siblings a number of years ago.

It was interesting.

In my Dad's case, himself and one sister did the heavy lifting.Now that said, they regularly had family discussions with the other brother and sister who lived a bit further away - not insurmountable, an hour long trip maybe maximum, all with kids who were late teens/adults...they insisted all be involved on the big decisions.

But when it came to it and the family home had to be put on the market, yes, one sibling - the one who was the most disengaged - was very interested.The will had been written so that everything was divided equally between them so nobody got more or less than the others.But you knew by what this sibling was saying that his view was more...mercenary...than the others.

It takes a strong person to make the others share even part of the work without major rows or resentment, and Dad, to be fair to him, is very strong and fair.But even at that, himself and one sister did 90% of it all and it was tough.

So yes it is normal, but I guess the main aim is coming out the end of it all speaking to each other.And I would suggest that any wills are open knowledge and as fair as possible, so there are no nasty surprises or expectations on anyone's part.

Esho

That's for that. Glad to hear your brothers came round.

Esho

Lol on dragging out the process! Thanks for that

Esho

I agree with you that it is a weakness. Such is life though.

Tork

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119901632#Comment_119901632

I don't know if it's a weakness Esho. I mostly see it as selfishness. Though there are also people who are genuinely heartbroken and can't face seeing their parent in a diminished state.

Flinty997

Have to say I've very little time for certain siblings, in-laws and relations after being through it a number of times.

I appreciate some aren't able for it or get overwhelmed. But in my experience most just choose to be absent. They don't even offer financial aid. Even where money is no object.

Flinty997

The other thing is if there are any sentimental items in the house take a photo of everything. If theres anything very sentimental to you put it aside.

Once the parent moves out of home. They come out of the woodwork to pick it clean.

Esho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119901701#Comment_119901701

Take your point Tork, but that's not the case here!