Car trouble

Heighway61

September last year bought a 2 year old car from a dealer in another town. Not one of their own brands. Things were done online due to COVID.

Had issues from the start which were fixed under warranty by local brand dealer. Then got a red engine warning and brought car back to local dealer. Car needs a new engine. Manufacturer says it's not covered under warranty unless I can get proof of previous owners service history.

At the time of purchase when I asked dealer about the service history I was told they would contact previous owner and get this. I presumed this would come and continued on with the process until the sale went through without a service history. I got the previous owner's contact details from docs in glove compartment but both email and phone bounced. I contacted manufacturer in Ireland but they had no record. So, I'm guessing they have spotted an issue and are taking advantage of this.

Does the fact that I was slack about the service history negate any entitlements I might otherwise have?

I'm seeing a solicitor on Monday but wondering how this might go.

Hobgoblin11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058272138/car-trouble

i believe a service history with a main dealer is necessary in order to get a warranty fulfilled

Heighway61

They carried out warranty work for me previous to this issue.

Dealer said that car came with remainder of manufacturer warranty. If there was no service history available and this negated the warranty should the seller not know this and thus was wrong to say the car had a warranty?

cml387

What the manufacturer says is not of any concern to you. Your contract is with the garage. They must make good.

Heighway61

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119885027#Comment_119885027

Should I seek to have them cover the cost of repairs in situ? Their premises are 300km from me.

And cover the remaining warranty?

the_amazing_raisin

So there's two warranties in play here, the garage warranty and the manufacturer warranty

The garage warranty is usually for about a year and is between you and the garage you bought it from

The manufacturer warranty is with the manufacturer and any of their service centers in Ireland.

The manufacturer often has strict requirements around servicing intervals and mileage for the warranty to apply. If you can't produce a service history then they're not required to honour the warranty

Garages will sometimes cover repairs under warranty if they're fairly minor without checking the service history, but that's at their discretion. I suspect the cost of the repair means they'd need to prove to the manufacturer that there's an issue

You should have gotten a logbook with the car. The garage that services the car should stamp this book when the car is serviced

If the logbook is blank then it's possible the car wasn't serviced. I've also noticed that some 3rd party mechanics don't bother stamping the logbook, so it's possible the car was serviced but you don't have the history of it

If the car was advertised as having a full service history then you may have a case to bring it back to the original garage. You may be able to get them to cover the cost of the repair

I doubt you'll get anywhere with the seller, they probably don't have the logbook anymore even if they did get the car serviced. Frankly I'm surprised the garage gave you those details, sounds like a data protection violation to me.

Perhaps a service like Cartell will be able to give you the sales history. You can use that to contact the original garage and see if they have the service history

Heighway61

I'll see what the solicitor says but I don't expect to get anywhere. I'm sure the seller and manufacturer will have themselves well covered. The corporates always do.

Del2005

The sale of goods and supply of services act covers this and an engine should last longer than the year and a bit you've had it. Contact the dealer and they have the option to repair, replace or refund you. This is on the assumption that you have done all the necessary maintenance since you got it.

Warranties and guarantees are in addition to your consumer rights. Ignore the dealer when they say its out of warranty.

coylemj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119885439#Comment_119885439

Agree that an engine should last longer than a year and a bit but this car has no service history for the first two years and there's no knowing what abuse it got. I'm giving the manufacturer a free pass here, the garage that sold it is another story.

My reading of this case is that the original owner bought a new car and drove it for two years without ever getting it serviced. Then noticed a fault and promptly dumped it. As part of their warranty, the manufacturer imposed the condition that the owner follow some sort of service schedule but it's clear from the absence of any paperwork that this was not complied with. Which is why I say the manufacturer is probably off the hook.

This is one of those cases where a prospective buyer expresses a concen and then naively accepts reassurances from the sales guy, in this case that he would get the service history from the previous owner and send it on - big mistake. In the normal course of events, if a car really did have a full service history, this would be factored into the forecourt price and they wouldn't have accepted it as a trade-in without the paperwork.

Instead, the garage who sold the car to the OP got the best of both worlds, they took in a car with no service history and probably knocked the seller down accordingly but they then sold it to the OP as if it did have a FSH, win-win for them. OP's best bet is to threaten to take it up with that dealer's brand Irish distributor, they don't want their authorised dealers selling faulty bangers (from any manufacturer) with zero history.

C3PO

What mileage was on the car when you bought it and now? It’s now 3 years old?

GavPJ

You do not need proof of service history for the manufacturer to honour the warranty.

Block exemption rule it is called.

coylemj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119905861#Comment_119905861

The block exemption rule is not a licence to buy a new car and ignore the service schedule altogether. It says that the manufacturer cannot (as a condition of the warranty) insist that you get your car serviced at one of their dealers for the duration of the warranty.

Manufacturers are well within their rights to demand that you produce proof that the car was serviced somewhere if you come back after two years with a warranty claim.

https://www.theaa.com/driving-advice/service-repair/right-to-repair-campaign

Heighway61

Solicitor reckons I should be ok. He thinks, while the selling dealership didn't explicitly say that the car had a service history, what he did say was enough for a reasonable expectation on my part that one would be forthcoming.

He also cited possible negligence on the part of the brand dealer, who have my car, due to the fact that serving they carried out under my ownership included "full vehicle health check', the latest being two weeks before the issue occured. However, I can see them talking their way out of that one.

coylemj

Solicitor reckons I should be ok. He thinks, while the selling dealership didn't explicitly say that the car had a service history, what he did say was enough for a reasonable expectation on my part that one would be forthcoming.

What I think he's telling you is that there was an 'inference' that a service history existed. But if they 'didn't explicitly say that the car had a service history', doesnt' that mean that they can hand you any old piece of paper and call it a 'service history'? All they have to do is find a backstreet mechanic and get him to write a receipt for an oil change - there's your 'service history'.

He also cited possible negligence on the part of the brand dealer, who have my car, due to the fact that serving they carried out under my ownership included "full vehicle health check', the latest being two weeks before the issue occured. However, I can see them talking their way out of that one.

What exactly was the fault that led to the catastrophic failure of the engine? Will you be able to show that it should have been detected in advance by the main dealer's diagnostic equipment? If not, you won't get anywhere with the claim of negligence.

Heighway61

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119907482#Comment_119907482

Not sure exactly what the problem is, somebody rang me and spieled out car parts and numbers that I didn't understand. I've asked for exact description in writing.

Should I tell ll the seller the story and ask for invoices and let him read between the lines? The other manufacturer recommendations are air filter and spark plugs at 30k km, no record.

Solicitor reckons an independent assessor will determine if they could have spotted the problem earlier.

Heighway61

Email sent to seller.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119907482#Comment_119907482

I don't think a scribbled receipt will fly, the car comes with a very specific maintenance schedule spelled out in the manual and a logbook for the mechanic to record the service history

It is the responsibility of the owner to ensure the records are up to date, so it's back to the question of whether the car was or wasn't serviced, there's no real way to answer it

The seller should have known to check the service history, and often cars that do have a full service history will be advertised as such. Not including the service history does mean the warranty is potentially void, the legal question is whether the seller would have known this and was right to claim the car was still under warranty

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119907745#Comment_119907745

When you say no record, is the logbook missing or is it empty? Doesn't really say much either way but I think it would be interesting to know

So in terms of the health check, most modern cars have an OBD11 port which the mechanic just plugs a laptop into and it gives out any faults the car has detected. This plus a quick visual inspection is basically the health check

It might be worth trying to get the results of this to see if there were any faults detected before the breakdown. If it got a clean bill of health then it's quite likely nothing was detected

Some cars also record the history of previous faults, in fact I know that VW can see when someone has connected an OBD scanner to the car

Might be worthwhile talking to the brand garage to see if they can see any kind of history in the car. It's kind of getting into forensic science but could be an indicator of the history of the car from the previous owner

Heighway61

So, the manufacturer has agreed to cover the cost of the engine replacement. I'm not sure why they decided to. The brand dealer say they lobbied on my behalf.

The existing warranty and milage from the old engine transfer to the new engine.

Lurching

Happy days!

seagull

It would be interesting to know whether the dealer you bought it from is picking up any of the bill. This might be the cheapest and easiest way for them to get rid of the issue.

GavPJ

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120000275#Comment_120000275

I doubt it. Each manufacturer has a "budget" or a figure to play with each year to apply good will warranty etc.

2 year old car would fall into this bracket no worries at all.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120000517#Comment_120000517

It's probably also a case that even if the car wasn't serviced at all the engine shouldn't fail after 3 years. So it's likely the manufacturer determined there was a defect in the engine anyway

Happy to hear the OP is getting sorted