Spiritan abuse survivors urged to come forward as independent process to begin

Cluedo Monopoly

It looks like the clerical sexual abuse by the Spiritans is a lot more extensive than first thought.

I am always bothered by the fact that it's always always always the abuse victims that are asked to come forward identify their abusers. They are asked to relive the trauma many years later. There are never ever any examples of the religious orders bringing evidence to the Gardai about known abusers. And they must know abusers who have never been prosecuted. We get lame apologies after the fact but that's it. It often too late to prosecute like in this instance with only 4 out of 78 still alive.

Spiritan abuse survivors urged to come forward (rte.ie)

Survivors of abuse by the Spiritan religious order in Ireland have been urged to come forward to tell their story.

Labour Party leader Ivana Bacik told TDs that "news is breaking about a person against whom serious allegations of abuse have been made" and who "is living on the grounds of Blackrock College".

She said that she has been given the name. The Taoiseach said any information must be referred to gardaí.

Muahahaha

Its a really disturbing story, I just cant get over how many paedos were in there. Like 78 of them is unbelievable, it was child abuse on an industrail scale.

And it also begs the question as you say as to who knew what and when and why they didnt come forward. There had to have been members of the order who knew well what was going on but turned a blind eye.

Tow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882888#Comment_119882888

According to the Pope 2% of priests are paedophiles, so the really maybe higher.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119883458#Comment_119883458

According to this there are 414,336 priests in the world.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/number-of-catholics-increasing-worldwide-falling-in-europe-1.4710161

The Spiritans are to rebrand with a less toxic name: The Spiritan Brothers.

It is yet another in a long line of revelations of utter horror inflicted by these institutions and organisations, yet we seem to be still absolutely fine to let them continue to run schools and hospitals without any significant consequences.

We can’t just continue to fall over ourselves with deference to the establishment, because it’s the establishment. This is on us. It’s on our political institutions who seem to be unwilling to rock the boat.

Cowards the lot of them! We should be hanging our heads in shame, not in a religious sense but in our total inability or unwillingness to act.

There are times I wonder if there’s something severely wrong with this country. We are or at least were controlled entirely by desperately chasing respectability, shame, endless hidden secrets and always presenting an entirely fake and controlled external image all coupled with a terrible fear of challenging authority, particularly of the religious variety. Why did we allow stuff like this to happen!?

Graces7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882888#Comment_119882888

Re the issues you raise in your last para. If you are in a religious order and vowed for life then you own nothing. That is what the Vow of Poverty means. You are totally dependent on the order. For your food, your bed, your clothes. In some cases in every order memebers DID leave but of course Life Vows are just that. So reporting would be a disaster given that thse would be good and deeply committed members. Many in several Orders did leave over abuse but they had a very very hard time and of course many were elderly with no support. It is not the same as reporting a commerical firm. Many stayed and did manage to alleviate suffering in hidden ways.

Tow

People were reported but the schools did nothing. For example when a relation of mine heard that a 'friend' of his was going to be given a coaching job in a school, he wrote to the school. Putting in writing who he was, how he know person and why he through a job around children was not suitable. He heard nothing back from the school. Years later the 'firends' antics in the school made headline news.

Jequ0n

Obviously people need to come forward if they want this enquiry to be successful. I can’t believe people are really expecting people within an organisation, which covered up abuse, to be proactive here.

Stephen_Maturin

Spiritans, Jesuits, Vincentians - all have been exposed in the numerous cases of abuse that have taken place in their many schools in only the last two years. How many other religious run schools have the same legacy yet to come to light?

I think it’s a the point now where we need to begin discussing a total separation of religious orders and influence from our schools.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119885444#Comment_119885444

In coming years, as schools are increasingly staffed by non- people, we will start to see abuse cases involving them too.

Just taking a rotten apple out of a barrel doesn't make it any healthier.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119884088#Comment_119884088

All a gag to you, eh? Stay classy.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119884269#Comment_119884269

FF minister for health, FF minister for education, zero chance of any necessary meaningful change regarding deference to religion.

Most top politicians went to exclusive and/or fee-charging RC religious order schools and they seem to forget who it is they are supposed to be working for.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119884346#Comment_119884346

So every single last one of them wrestled with their conscience and lost?

All of these religious order schools go on about "values", well it's pretty feckin' obvious by now what those values really are

The perverts who stayed in the orders were set up with room and board for life, plus the most expensive defence barristers money could buy.

Vomit inducing.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119886556#Comment_119886556

Totally missing the point

Lay abusers exist in all walks of life but they usually don't have an extremely powerful and wealthy organisation covering up for them.

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119886556#Comment_119886556

I disagree - the imperative for priests to be celibate clearly warps their minds. It’s too common amongst them to be coincidence

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119887611#Comment_119887611

How many priests are actually celibate though?

Given that they don't have a spouse to answer to or children to raise, they have a good deal more time, opportunity and energy to get sex than most lay adults.

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119888309#Comment_119888309

Hahah you think priests are getting laid more than the laity?

I’m sorry but that’s ridiculous. That being said if it were true it would just go to show further how full of **** they are.

osarusan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119886556#Comment_119886556

Just taking a rotten apple out of a barrel doesn't make it any healthier.

Literally, that is exactly what it does mean.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119885424#Comment_119885424

I also find it extraordinary that one senior member who is still there as mentioned by Ivanna Batick in the Dáil yesterday allegedly told an abuse victim back in the early 2000s to go away unless they had proof - you don’t treat any past pupil of your school like that but especially not an abuse victim

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119888722#Comment_119888722

She actually very carefully described the person without naming them, its very easy for anyone familiar with the school to know who shes referring to.

Also I genuinely believed that the historical clerical sex abuse atrocities had been largely uncovered at this point- there have been dozens more stories reported and more abusers highlighted in this order, just in the last few weeks.

Why so late in the day for the Holy Ghost Fathers? Their schools are traditionally middle class- is that a factor here? Are middle class abuse victims less likely to come forward because of the perceived status power and control of their alma mater?

I don’t have a view on this as I just don’t know so feel free to input your thoughts but there is definitely something amiss here- the power and status Blackrock holds in Dublin society at least could be a factor as to why these victims didn’t come forward until now.

I know there have been some great activists and former abuse victims working on new cases for many years and supporting victims of their former schools but the increasing number of abusers and abuse victims at this stage is quite unusual in my view- it’s as if a switch went off in their heads that held them back from talking about their abuse because of the power and the name, Blackrock college and other schools run by this order, had over them. But now, that power has disintegrated thank god.

donaghs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119885444#Comment_119885444

Its a bit late for that. How many Brothers are left? Its investigating the past now. Looking to the present and the future, we should focus on not turning ANY people into untouchable "sacred cows" so they are free to abuse kids. Whether they are celebrities, priests or whatever.

The Catholic Church clearly had a huge number of abusers, and as an organisation facilitated this by denials, and moving people around. But they are not alone in this.

The Irish Swimming scandals or the UK Islington childrens homes scandal didnt involve the Catholic Church, but involve similar patterns: denials and cover-ups etc.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119888765#Comment_119888765

I’m not familiar with the school in terms of the staff there but absolutely you’re right, they would easily be identified by the description she gave-

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119888767#Comment_119888767

I’m not sure the “power” of Blackrock in Dublin as you say has anything to do with it. There are also a huge amount of cases in the other Spiritans schools where people are also only coming forward now - it just so happens that Blackrock is the largest and best known of the Spiritan schools so naturally it’s the most under the spotlight.

I think it’s much more that it’s a facet of middle class life in Ireland that you don’t overly draw attention to yourself, particularly with regards to things of a sexual nature. A lot of keeping up appearances and not rocking the boat so to speak. It’s quite a private world in which people would be very slow to discuss their personal circumstances.

Sure look at the two brothers that broke the story - neither of them knew the other had been abused. They even had the same abuser but it never came to light until years later.

It’s only now that the silence has been broken by them that the floodgates have thankfully opened and others feel comfortable voicing their experiences.

walterking

I remember spitting out a drink all over the floor when the scene on Fr Ted with Brendan Grace saying to the priest that was watch the boys sports day "and you're imagining what they look like without their clothes on"

I think it was the first time such a comment was made and there was no national uproar about it - because we all knew it was true for so many of those in religious orders.

That the current scandal has taken until 2022 to get into the open is almost as equal of a scandal than the scandal itself.

I think there needs to be a totally independent body that those who suffered abuse by any group that held power over young people and that this group can take statement anonymously if wanted and also keep personal details secret at the request of the person making an allegation and that some form of counselling is then made available for them to avail of.

In this day of Zoom, such counselling and reporting would be far more accessible than in the past

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119888767#Comment_119888767

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/education/2022/11/12/blackrocks-code-of-omerta-finally-shattered-by-brothers-bravery/

What is remarkable about the story is that it has emerged at all.

Even as this newspaper reported in 2012 of abuses by priests at other Spiritan-run schools such as St Mary’s College Rathmines in Dublin, Rockwell College in Co Tipperary and others, there was silence from Blackrock.

Yet, as we now know, 57 men have alleged that they were abused as boys on the campus of the Dublin school.

Such is the power of the “Rock” brand and the loyalty it generates that even those men who were so violently physically and sexually abused while students there did not, until this week, risk being seen to betray it. There was also the shame that it was them, not others, who were chosen by abusers, particularly in such a macho culture as a boys’ boarding school.

This week most of the men who came forward to tell their stories preferred not to be named. It is also a question of protecting now elderly parents who, frequently, scrimped and saved to give their sons what they believed was the best start in life.

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/2022/11/18/blackrock-college-abuse-why-did-leading-voices-stay-silent-for-so-long/

If Socrates was correct that the unexamined life is not worth living, why did it take so much longer for details of systemic sexual abuse at the supposedly intellectually elevated Blackrock College to come to light than it did at supposedly less favoured institutions run by, say, the Christian Brothers? This is not intended as victim-blaming. I ask myself the same question.

In the 1970s I was a pupil at Willow Park, Blackrock College’s junior school, where many of the worst crimes were being perpetrated. The names in this week’s reports echo down the decades to me.

In maths class, Senan Corry would make his way around the room, groping boys and rubbing his crotch against their buttocks. In religion, Luke McCaffrey would tell eight-year-olds their mothers were going to die soon and go straight to hell. Corry I remember as a hulking man with a deep, booming voice, McCaffrey a creepy-crawly figure who lovingly fingered the leather scapulars that you were supposed to wear under your shirt and against your skin. Another man whose name I can’t remember was terrifyingly violent.

To 10-year-old me, these men and other clerics seemed both threatening and ridiculous. But at the same time, as I now know, they were raping my classmates, as were other priests and brothers whose names and blurry faces now loom from news pages, barely remembered shadows from the past.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119888911#Comment_119888911

As I reflect on it, leaving aside “Blackrock” for a minute, private schools in general, and private “rugby” schools in particular, do have a school “ethos” and many have a huge historical legacy of education and achievement - and of course, the vast majority of the legal profession and to a lesser extent politics have come from these schools - it’s this history and esteem and pride that’s instilled in all pupils from an early age - it’s nearly a loyalty - it’s just my own theory but I do feel it’s one factor as to why we’re hearing these stories only now- it’s as if there was an additional guilt, over and above speaking of the abuse itself, that prevented them from coming forward- a guilt of betraying their loyalty to their school- I’m probably not describing it correctly but I do think there’s something in that space that’s happening now- that guilt is no longer present and it’s allowing the victims to speak freely

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119888941#Comment_119888941

I’m sorry to hear that you were affected by this or at least were there at that time when others were abused- you seem to have echoed similar thoughts to my own- that piece about “loyalty” to the school- I do think that such schools had an intangible hold over the minds of those pupils long after they left.

Edit- I see you were quoting a story- above stands in case you were affected

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119888722#Comment_119888722

I’m not sure what other response you expected. The organisation will obviously try to do as much damage control as possible. Without proof, or at least some supporting evidence, the person who contacted them was an alleged victim only.

VinLieger

Roisin Ingles piece from the other day is pretty horrific, she has decided to make this whole tragedy about her and her experience at Sion Hill, a girls school beside Blakcrock, and it basically amounts to her saying "they thought they were better than us but they were the ones being molested". It reads to me like shes happy this happened simply because she felt Blackrock boys werent nice to her.

Neyite

In the past, children didn't really have bodily autonomy - you were forced to kiss random aunties and uncles, teachers could hit you and you likely got another wallop at home for whatever reason the teacher had for hitting you in the first place. I remember a neighbour even giving me a haircut when I didn't want one because she took a fancy to it and I happened to be passing - mam was annoyed but said nothing more than telling her to practice on her own kids instead. These days, people would hit the roof if their kid came home with butchered hair, probably call the Guards.

Even when it was age appropriate, sex ed was usually hit and miss, couched in only telling you the mechanics of hetro sex within a marriage and that everything else was sinful. You weren't even really taught consent. As a teen girl in the early 90s in a catholic school the onus was always on us to keep ourselves 'safe' and if anything did happen it was our fault but oddly, the actual instructions on how to spot unsafe situations in time were beyond vague.

One thing that always strikes me when a new scandal comes out is what my therapist said to me many years ago. I was wondering why it took me so long to realise I had been sexually abused as a child, but it was simply down to the fact I didn't know how to verbalise what had happened to me when I was little. You were literally taught that any adult can do what they want with you, that your job was to endure whatever it was the adult wanted to do and be polite about it. I didn't have the language to describe what was doing because I was too young but even when I was older, an adult even, I had to struggle to put it into words what it was really. People wonder why kids don't tell but it's just not in their vocabulary at such a young age.

Compound that by drumming it into kids that Teachers, Priests and pretty much all the adults you know in your life are to be trusted and it was a perfect storm for doing what they wanted to children, gaslighting them about it, and being powerful enough to deflect anyone who had the courage to step forward and challenge them.

cheese sandwich

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119889133#Comment_119889133

She’s a narcissistic idiot at the best of times but that article was revolting.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119889133#Comment_119889133

It appears you’re not the only person to think that way about the article - letters to the editor

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/2022/11/18/roisin-ingle-and-blackrock-college/

it has also outraged people enough that it has its own Reditt thread- something tells me she’ll be taking a sabbatical to “pursue other interests” real soon 😛

https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/yx0mhc/r%C3%B3is%C3%ADn_ingle_turns_out_blackrock_college_was_a/

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119888591#Comment_119888591

Nope.

The apple is still rotten.

And it gets to spread its poison more widely, because there are fewer constraints on it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119889307#Comment_119889307

That’s only if the apple is moved to another barrel of good apples- just like pedo priests were moved around to other schools.

But if you take the bad apple out, and squish it on the ground, that’s the end of bad appleness

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119889363#Comment_119889363

So a paedophile who doesn't become a priest magically becomes not paedophile?

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119889133#Comment_119889133

Yeah absolutely awful, what a horrible person she is.

Imagine being so incredibly embittered and self absorbed that you use a child sexual abuse case to get some “last laugh” digs in over the fact that children from the same school as other children that teased you 30 years ago were being raped.

I’m not surprised to see this from her though. Acts the big moral superior to everyone but is clearly a very nasty and spiteful person herself.

Irish Times really has fallen into the gutter

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119889248#Comment_119889248

I have contacted the IT and told them unless there is a retraction and apology I'm cancelling my subscription and apparently I'm not alone. An appalling piece of journalism. A bitter, cheap shot by Roisin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119889407#Comment_119889407

I really don’t have a clue what you’re on about missus

Busi_Girl08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119889133#Comment_119889133

She's getting ripped to shreds about it on twitter and in this morning's letters to the editor. And rightly so.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119889552#Comment_119889552

I reckon it will get the Joe Duffy treatment this afternoon

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119889546#Comment_119889546

Ignore them. It is their usual shite talk.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119889546#Comment_119889546

It's not ordination as a priest that turns someone into a paedophile.

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119889413#Comment_119889413

Yes will do the same - it’s something I’ve considered lately anyway as I feel the quality of their journalism has very much declined in the last few years.

This kind of thing all sums it up really. They’ve departed from serious objective journalism in favour of rubbishy populism laden opinion pieces.

Igotadose

Confiscate the land and turn it into refugee/asylum seeker housing, with a dollop of social housing. I'm sure it's in a nice location with convenient access to shops, jobs, etc. Never mind letting the criminal enterprise known as the RCC promise to pay some huge amount of money (operative word: promise, they rarely deliver). And do it fast. Kick out whatever fossilized child rapists that might be there - either they were practitioners themselves, or complicit. Enough mollycoddling this depraved organization.

Cluedo Monopoly

Taoiseach confirms inquiry over Spiritan abuse allegations

Martin confirms inquiry over Spiritan abuse allegations (rte.ie)

The Taoiseach has confirmed that an inquiry will be set up to examine allegations of abuse and cover up at Spiritan-run schools including Blackrock College.

Micheál Martin said "some form of inquiry would have to be established" and the Government would engage with victims to hear their views on the best approach.

He said the Minister for Education is examining the issue and will work on a victim-led process.

------------

The Spiritan (aka holy ghost fathers) schools involved are;

Blackrock (Dublin)

Rockwell College (Tipperary)

St Michael’s (Dublin)

St Mary’s (Dublin)

Templeogue College (Dublin)

The missionary order also run schools in Africa and there is evidence perpetrators taught in Sierra Leone and Nigeria.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119893669#Comment_119893669

Great. A few million spent on whatever to prove, slowly, that the RCC is guilty as hell and has no intentions of doing anything about it. Tormenting the victims again. I noted the announcement from Martin was that the investigation should result in solutions for the past victims. For once, Ireland should worry about past and future victims. There'll be another set of paedophiles found out, it's like clockwork in this country. Make priest paedophilia a crime, with severe sentences and limited appeal. Fines to be paid in cash or forfeiture of real-estate in kind. Things like that.

Wailing over the poor victims is nice, but doesn't solve the problem.

Commoner

I can't believe the dozens of people who are still being refused compensation from the O'Keeffe ruling on the grounds that they didn't take prior action aren't taking this case to the European Court of Human Rights which has the power to force the Irish Government to compensate them, like Louise O'Keeffe did in 2014. Who can afford to take legal action in Ireland due to the excessive legal fees and the un-reformed legal profession which was supposed to become a one-stop shop under the troika but never happened.

It's not like there isn't money available to compensate the survivors. The Government could take the Apple Tax money and use it.

I honestly think this should be a Garda led inquiry.

I'm fed up to the back teeth of these 'scandals' being put into some kind of softly-softly, gentle form of almost parallel justice system involving tribunals and enquires when it comes to dealing with powerful institution.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119896153#Comment_119896153

The Gardai have known about abuse in Spiritan schools for over 20 years.