Help with smart plan

allinthehead · 11-11-2022 8:24pm #1

I've recently added 10kwh of battery storage and I was thinking of changing to Electric Irelands Home Electric + Night Boost. https://www.electricireland.ie/switch/new-customer/price-plans?priceType=E

I'm currently on a standard plan at 37 cent per unit and 300 euro standing charge and still in contract. I've been trying to contact them for a week and a half now but having no joy.

I've had a look around and Energia have this plan. EV Smart Charge Time https://www.energia.ie/products/price-plans?fuelType=ElectricityOnly&meterType=Smart.

Energia plan has 4 hour low rate vs EI's 2 hour and the Energia standing charge is 236 vs EI at 400. CEG is also 4c per kwh higher with Energia. In the plan details they mention a threshold rate, anybody know what this is?

My own thoughts on this are that the lower standing charge, longer very low night rate plus the increased CEG rate make this an attractive plan compared to the EI plan.

Really I'm just looking for a sanity check before I proceed. Any thoughts?

allinthehead · 11-11-2022 8:47pm

Just found Pinergy Ev plan at 6.5c per kwh for 3 hours and 283 euro standing charge. Pinergy also offering 21c CEG.

graememk · 11-11-2022 8:53pm

Are you rural or urban? The standing charge for Energia is the urban one.

As for the threshold, I don't know for the smart tariffs, but on the day night ev tariff it's 3000 day 2000 night, above that you are charged more.

allinthehead · 11-11-2022 9:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119863344#Comment_119863344

I'm urban, should be fine based on that as I would be using about 8kwh a night.

allinthehead · 11-11-2022 9:19pm

Here's a link to the Pinergy EV Drive Time Tariff https://pinergy.ie/terms-conditions/tariffs/

Seems too good to be true. Only slightly above my EI standard rate, 6.5c for 3 hours at night.

curioustony · 12-11-2022 8:39am

@allinthehead I ran your rates against my data (I increased the battery from 5 to 10 kWh). I have 4.55 kWp facing SE, and use ~6.5MW in the year. I added seasonal load shifting to take advantage of the battery and the low rate of electricity -- this can be tuned for each plan, but the table gives an idea. I also left the Energia EV D/N plan just to show everybody how competitive the 'smart market' is. (frustrated a little)

It's quite hard to eliminate the 17-19 usage without playing with some home automation to reserve the battery until peak times -- but you can get most of the way there fairly easily without changing you lifestyle too much.

My hourly usage profile is not a million miles away from the standard load profile. I add it here for reference so you can figure out if the above is applicable to you.

If you want to put in your own figures, you can get the application here: https://github.com/Tonyslogic/tout-compare

allinthehead · 12-11-2022 10:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119864407#Comment_119864407

Thanks for that, I've a similar sized system but usage would be around 4MW per year so I believe I can make the 10kwh last till night rate.. I think I found the gotcha with the Pinergy plan, it seems to be some kind of fixed monthly payment which they adjust up and down as they learn about your usage. Seems strange, what's wrong with just billing for usage?

irishchris · 13-11-2022 10:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119864673#Comment_119864673

Yep the only slightly frustrating thing about the pinergy plan is the level pay system. Selected one person living in house at signup even though we are family of four as reduces the level pay. Paid 116 for first two months as our standard rate for one person and then it dropped to 14 a month when learned my usage after the first two months.

It's now down to 7 a month and together with the monthly payments and the high return of fit I'm now 608 euro in credit.

Would rather a direct billing system but for the low rural standing charge, very cheap EV rate and good fit then for me there wasn't a comparable plan.

micks_address · 13-11-2022 11:08am

Interesting thread. I'm on electric Ireland dual fuel but have an ev since the summer and now. 9.5kwh battery for storage and 7kw east/west solar panels.. only connected since Friday but for these winter months it seems pretty obvious charging the battery overnight on a cheaper tariff is the way to go. I'm on contract till end of January with electric Ireland. Ideally if I could get a tarrif with 3 hours cheap at night and reasonable during the day I'd be well set. I don't charge the ev at home much as we get free EV charging at work.

graememk · 13-11-2022 11:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119868321#Comment_119868321

If you ring them up, can you be taken off the level pay? And just put on a direct debit?

For some people level pay is great, but I don't think it should be mandatory/only option.

With your credit + gov scheme you have more than enough to ride out the winter

micks_address · 13-11-2022 3:10pm

This seems like a good thread for a sticky? There's a thread on the ev forum for best electric tarrifs to go for. Sse and bord gais seem to offer three hours cheep rate which seems like the min you'd want for charging a battery.

micks_address · 13-11-2022 3:32pm

Looking at the ei plan.. it's 2 hours at their cheapest rate but the whole night at half price the day rate.. I'm in contract with them till end of January so might see it they can switch me to night boost plan till then. I'd loose my 26 percent discount rate.. they told me that before but if I can get 2/3rds the battery full at the super cheap rate and the rest at 20 cents probably worth it.. I'd be reluctant to renew with anyone else in January as hopefully prices might fall and we might see better offers by spring time next year .. that might be a bit optimistic

allinthehead · 13-11-2022 3:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119869244#Comment_119869244

Downside is the standing charges are 400 euro.

micks_address · 13-11-2022 4:17pm

I guess I'm paying that already with them. I'll definitely shop around come January..

irishchris · 13-11-2022 5:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119868419#Comment_119868419

Unfortunately not as queried this several times before sign-up and after joining but seems only prepay or level pay.

Should actually make a profit this year from my supply with them with fit and the government credit.

micks_address · 13-11-2022 6:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119869698#Comment_119869698

What happens the credit you build up? Will they give it as a cash refund if you switch?

irishchris · 14-11-2022 2:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119869951#Comment_119869951

They said at end of the contract year they balance credits and debits and square up. If leave before contract then assume would be same as other providers I have moved from when in credit and receive cheque for credit due

micks_address · 14-11-2022 9:29am

Phoned EI this morning.. they wouldnt switch me to the night plan without paying 50 euro and signing up to 12 months new contract so held off.. only 2 months left in contract so will see how i get on importing at night anyway for a while and try and record usage etc..

allinthehead · 14-11-2022 10:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119871793#Comment_119871793

That's ridiculous, I finally made contact with them too and they switched me over with no change to my contract or charge. I'm going to stay with them until the Ceg payment is sorted.

micks_address · 14-11-2022 10:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119871952#Comment_119871952

how were you in contact with them? i talked to person on the phone.. straight away were like oh you are on 26 percent discount rate you'd be daft with switch.. but... even with 26 percent discount rate my unit rate is 32 cents approx with vat.. if i switched to the night tarrif i could go to 20 cents from 11pm to 8am and 12 cents for 2 hours.. to charge the battery etc.. now if the battery could get be from 8am to 11pm id be doing very well. think she said the day rate goes to 42 cents on the night tarrif.. i did talk about how i had battery storage and an ev but they didnt really seem to interested in the conversation... only that they had just started working with EI and i was on a better rate than they were. Ceg payment?

SD_DRACULA · 14-11-2022 10:41am

That pinergy night boost rate must be the best among the "smart" tariffs, shame you have to hammer the battery to fill in just 3 hours and can no way you can fill a 20kwh in that time with the BS Solis 100A rate.

But good to see smart tariffs popping up for when they take d/n away from us.

allinthehead · 14-11-2022 11:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119871989#Comment_119871989

Ring again and ask for the smart meter team. Don't mention batteries, tell them you have an Ev and a heat pump. Ceg is the payment for exporting surplus pv produced.

allinthehead · 14-11-2022 11:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119872107#Comment_119872107

It's a good rate to be fair. When you say hammer the batteries is it a problem to charge at 100 amps? I'm planning to charge from 10% to 90% in the two window.

micks_address · 14-11-2022 11:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119872212#Comment_119872212

thanks ill probably leave it till tomorrow morning.. id imagine daily wait times are crazy

SD_DRACULA · 14-11-2022 12:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119872225#Comment_119872225

Two things, yes it's better for any battery to charge/discharge at lower rates for longevity that's why d/n always wins vs 3 hour window, and if you have a Solis 100a only works for about 15 mins and then it drops to 70a so in 3 hours you can pump just a bit over 10kwh into the batteries.

If you have two batteries then the 70a becomes 35a for each battery so not too bad, the more batteries you have the less each gets.

allinthehead · 14-11-2022 1:03pm

Ya I have two 5kw Sunsynk batteries and a Sunsynk inverter which can charge/discharge at 100 amps. Batteries are .5C.

DC999 · 14-11-2022 1:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119872107#Comment_119872107

Wow, that 6.4c is a really good tariff for those without a battery (me) but who have an EV. Our car would pretty much always charge in 3 hours (it’s only a 3.5kW charger but we do low mileage). Half our usage would then be in that slot easily, with load-shifting. Then I get FIT of 21c, which is almost half of the 43.5c outside the EV window. I’d stay on a smart meter at those rates.

I was told by Energia I can get a smart meter replaced with a D/N at no cost. But I’d have to pay to switch back to a smart meter in the future (didn’t confirm the cost). Likely needed when the D/N tariffs start to became less cost effective. Am still on a 24hr meter at mo but on a decent tariff.

micks_address · 14-11-2022 1:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119872212#Comment_119872212

phoned at lunch time and left the phone on hold for an hour.. good use of time.. but at least it was a free call... asked for switch.. straight away no messing.. yeah thats no hassle.. not a new contract and no 50 euro fee.. now i just need to maximise the night rates! its 20 cents from 11pm to 8am.. with 12 cents for 2am to 4am and 40 cents from 8am to 11pm