Was the South Africa match a prelude to moving more matches to Cork?

Deagol

I'm wondering now, is this the slow decline of Thomond? I hear there's a lot of influence within Munster sport pushing for more matches to be in PuC like the Leinster derbies.

Has anyone else heard anything? Is this a genuine worry? I have nothing against Cork etc, but Thomond to me at least is the spiritual home of Munster. Am I living in the past, has Thomond and Limerick lost Munster?

phog

I reckon you're right, some of those guys in Munster are cute hoors, they used the opportunity of this game to move the goal posts from Thomond to PuC, they might never bring them back.

We could end up with Cork getting all the games

Roxxers

ah fu ck off

Neil3030

With all due respect, could we just enjoy an excellent night for Munster, Irish rugby, and fans who live in/near Cork, without descending into a needless, divisive row over a sinister (and likely unfounded) interpretation of the broader context?

Was the South Africa match a prelude to moving more matches to Cork?

Yes

is this the slow decline of Thomond?

No

Am I living in the past, has Thomond and Limerick lost Munster?

Not the past, fantasy land. No.

Augme

It will be a revenue based decision and that will largely be down to how much additional revenue can be made in games at PUC when you factor in having to pay to rent it.

touts

10 years ago Thomond Park was packed for European games. I got my season ticket to make sure I would always get a ticket. I can't remember the last time I saw it packed to the rafters as back then. Mates who used to struggle to get tickets anywhere in the stadium now have no problem getting one in the same area that we have our season tickets and we usually see a sprinkling of empty seats around us. Down in the terraces the days of arriving in an hour before to get a central space with a barrier to lean on are long gone. Now they don't fill up until 10 minutes before the start.

I can't see Munster moving to PuC for regular games. Special games like last night yes. But beyond that no. Even for knockout games the IRFU will want them to use the Aviva to keep the cash in house.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119860123#Comment_119860123

You too

sydthebeat

Munster don't control PUC, so that it's paid to the suggestion in the OP

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119860121#Comment_119860121

I really hope 'Páirc Uí Caoimhing' becomes the new standard term for when someone shifts the focus of an argument away from the original premise

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119860208#Comment_119860208

thats because of people not travelling to Thomand from Cork. its become bloody expensive.

this was clearly a precursor to moving some knock out matches over.

to deny that is to deny reality. a few of the journos already saying so. clear as day. Cork Rugby is sick of the inbalance here. and Limerick is losing numbers to Hurling.

as said above it all depends on the costs. does the rent mean any extra numbers is irrelevant? or are they still coming away with some profit.

Rugby needs to keep developing. We've seen how the aviva has been lost to corporate rugby blow ins.

Irish rugby needs to think outside the box. last night was the start of that process

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119860627#Comment_119860627

this was clearly a precursor to moving some knock out matches over.

I’m not sure we can say that will happen with any certainty tho given the time of year when knockout matches are played, combined with the earlier start to the GAA Championship.

That could be prohibitive.

phog

Nobody ever travelled from anywhere to a match in Thomand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119860705#Comment_119860705

Pendantism isn't very funny when it's ad nauseum.

touts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119860627#Comment_119860627

The decline in attendance in Thomond has nothing to do with the cost of living crisis. It has been going on for years.

Have you set foot in Musgrave recently? I have. It's only 8,000 capacity and never sold out either. And many of the faces I see there are also faces I see in Thomond. If the demand for Munster games is so much higher in Cork than in Limerick then maybe you'd want to prove that by encouraging a few Cork lads to start going to Musgrave park.

You're correct about alternative sports taking fans. Success breeds support and Munster have been struggling recently. That's definately a significant factor in Limerick these days and to a much lesser degree in Cork. Yes Cork may not have had any recent success in any sport (bar rowing) but as Munster have lost more games recently than in the past the prospect of watching Cork regularly lose matches in GAA and Soccer doesn't seem as unappealing to the casual fan so a handful are doubtless heading to Turners Cross and PuC on GAA days. They never sell out either though. I'll take the atmosphere in a 90% full Thomond over a 50% full PuC.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119860792#Comment_119860792

 It's only 8,000 capacity and never sold out either.

Is that true? I thought pre-Covid it was almost always full, or very close to it at least (allowing for a few no-shows you're bound to get).

Absolutely no chance

but It is a bit weird they can get 40000 into a GAA ground or to the Aviva but can barely get 5000 for an actual competitive game.

alias no.9

You've got this all wrong, this was a dry run for South Africa to replace the 6 Nations and play their home games in Cork

touts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119860811#Comment_119860811

Maybe it's officially a sell out but it never feels that way. Plenty of space especially at either end. I think when the redevelopment reopened first there were a few busy nights but other than that not remotely full. I had a season ticket for the terrace and never had a problem paying €10 for a seat in that temporary stand we had for a couple of years. Lots of seats there. Then yes the atmosphere improved for a while after the redevelopment. Did ask once could I upgrade to the stand and was told not any more. Now it never feels remotely full in the terraces and there are seats around the stand empty. Will ask next time if I can pay for an upgrade to the stand to see if that option is back. That will tell a lot if the empty seats didn't sell or are no-shows.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119860853#Comment_119860853

When have they barely gotten 5000? They invariably always get a good bit more than that.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119860891#Comment_119860891

Fair enough; I only get there the odd time (maybe once a season max) so was just going off the published attendances which are invariably pretty good (if not full pre-Covid).

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119860783#Comment_119860783

Hope you're ok.

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119860792#Comment_119860792

you make it sound as people are saying its an option for URC matches. Nobody is saying that.

its obvious at some stage a competitive QF will be held there.

also Musgrave park is a shite venue, and there is **** all there. these things matter. would i rather go to the rds, or thomand than Musgrave park? of course i would

touts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119861147#Comment_119861147

QFs are held in the Home venue of the higher ranked team. That's Thomond and won't be changing to PuC as it would have to change for the group games also.

SFs are held in a neutral venue in the same country of the team selected to host. Munster always seem to lose out on whatever the selection criteria are for that but in the event that we did get drawn to host a SF in ireland then the IRFU will want that to be in the larger capacity Aviva where they won't have to pay rent to the GAA.

PuC is never hosting a knockout game unless the IRFU buy it or the Aviva burns down.

Now that said one solution I could see that would benefit all parties would be for the Munster Branch to sell Musgrave Park, FAI (or whoever) to sell Turners Cross and both use the funds raised to buy 1/3rd shares in PuC from the GAA. That would clear the huge financial debt the Cork county board have and would see one stadium used regularly, almost every week. That's what a sensible country would do. That's the idea of Municipal stadia that France have. It's never happening here because the rival sports would rather sit in a glorified cow shed than have a decent stadium they would have to share with another organisation.

Red Silurian

I think PuC might become Munster's preferred venue for European Semi Finals, where use of your own stadium isn't allowed in the first place. There were a lot of red faces last year when we had to move our home quarter final clash with Toulouse to Dublin due to Ed Sheeran playing in Thomond Park and if we had beaten Toulouse then to bring our hard fought home Semi-Final to the home of our opposition would have caused much anger.

I must be said that just because it will be Munster's preferred venue doesn't guarantee anything. You would still need agreement from the EPCR, the IRFU and the GAA. In that order the EPCR are most likely to sanction it, they've been happy with stadiums from other codes before, while the IRFU will likely show a preference for Landsdowne Road and then there could be a clash with the GAA April-July season so that would be the GAA out

I can't see regular season matches or even European Quarter Finals (that aren't disrupted by music gigs) being moved there at all and personally I wouldn't like to see it. Our homes are Musgrave and Thomond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119861269#Comment_119861269

There is no requirement to have Group games and Home QF in the same ground.

CIARAN_BOYLE

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119861364#Comment_119861364

It used to be encouraged not to have a home in your own ground.

It might have changed after the end of the Heineken Cup but the away team at a quarter final get half the profit from hosting the game.

If you moved from your home venue to one a certain amount bigger the home teams % of profit would go from 50% to 65%.

..

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119861855#Comment_119861855

I wonder if they'd ever come to the conclusion that Leinster shouldn't be having home semi-finals in Landsdowne Road on account of it being a home venue of theirs...

Maybe that the IRFU's thinking...

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119861875#Comment_119861875

That rule went out the window years ago. There is no requirement for the SF to be in a neutral venue.

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119860783#Comment_119860783

Pedantry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119862172#Comment_119862172

QED 🤣

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119862172#Comment_119862172

🤣🤣🤣🤣

pickarooney

I stopped short of correcting the Latin 😟

iv been to matches against zebre or ospreys with barely anybody there.

timothydec77

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058271276/was-the-south-africa-match-a-prelude-to-moving-more-matches-to-cork

Both Limerick and Cork are important to Munster Rugby from a player and customer base.

The decision was taken at the time that neither City could support a team on its own. The IRFU needed the reputation of Limerick to counter Rugby's elitist repuation.

What you might see is a more even distribution of matches between the cities. Any Businesss man worth their salt would not walk away from a place that sells out a stadium virtually in the Pre Sale.

I do think that Limerick has become saturated with Rugby. The Ulster game had a poor attendance. Some of the Terraces prices were not far off League of Ireland Soccer Prices. Cork City FC are charging 20 Euro for tickets in 2023.

Munster in future will continue to exclusively train in Limerick. At worst they will play 50% of the matches there.

Musgrave Park is too small for all the games againist the lower URC teams and Parc Ui Chaoimh is too big for most matches. Thomond is just right for European Games.

lawrencesummers

The next obvious step is to move one of the interpros to Cork and see if the same level of interest remains.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119864909#Comment_119864909

There's only one interpro worth moving and even then it's not a given that Munster would make money from it.

I reckon our next venture there will be for a knockout game but then the timeframe of knowing the fixture and getting tickets on sale might mean Munster have to take a hit on ticket prices to get the stadium full

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119866379#Comment_119866379

Knockout games are springtime and clash with the GAA season. You dont get to decide the day and time so its probably not an option, or at least a very difficult one to have.

I think the novelty of an Ulster or Connacht game could sell well but a Leinster game would make most sense.

timothydec77

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119866389#Comment_119866389

The Sunday Times are saying that no matches will happen next year in the venue.

The newspaper implied that the venue will only be used for hosting touring international sides.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119869855#Comment_119869855

The Sunday Times are saying that no matches will happen next year in the venue.

That would be about right anyway but I reckon we could see a competitive game there at some stage

Meanwhile the locals aren't happy with the GAA

https://twitter.com/MarinaParkCork/status/1591820350589145089?t=7lXju_qsIup1L9WkypNtmw&s=19

Hopefully not

Surely Munster would be better served to try save their game at underage in Limerick and keep it's big games there??

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119869938#Comment_119869938

They could do all 3 and make extra money by hosting a big game in Cork every so often.

We need to money

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119869938#Comment_119869938

Not having bigger games in Limerick wouldnt have do anything to change the issues at age grade in Limerick. What would you suggest be changed to help the age grade game in Limerick??

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119869929#Comment_119869929

Surey that anger should be directed at the gardai as much as anyone else

CIARAN_BOYLE

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119869938#Comment_119869938

Munster need to engage the full county. To do that sacred cows may need to be slaughtered.

Short of praying for the M20 to actually be built the best way to do that is providing some access to high quality games in both cities.

Other steps that could be considered include running a dedicated rugby bus service from Cork to Limerick for games travel with your match day ticket.

Theres probably a bunch of other steps.

Munster need to win in Cork and in Limerick to succeed. Not one but both. Unfortunate situation of geography and player populations.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119869967#Comment_119869967

I'd imagine given the success of the Limerick hurling team,and it's likelyhood to continue with winning at least 3 of next 5 all Ireland's.....

Munster need keep as many high profile games there as possible to get kids in,unless they are going cede underage level to the GAA for a generation in limerick?

Also serious qs,as to whether cork county board will let this happen long term,seems foolish to base long term plans on something that could end at short enough notice?

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119869998#Comment_119869998

There has been loads of Munster games in Thomond and it hasnt had any effect on playing numbers. It isnt a factor in the playing numbers or why fewer pros are coming from Limerick

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119869969#Comment_119869969

100% but at every ground, car parked for GAA matches seem to get away with murder when where & how they park.

I don't blame the association, like you I blame the drivers and the gardai for not doing more

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119870010#Comment_119870010

It will be in long term,limerick have a once in century golden generation over last 4 or 5 years.....and likely have another 5 to 7 with this bunch of players

It would seem obvious to me,that this will effect playing numbers as kids will want to play game of those they look upto,if you ask your average 10 year old in limerick which can they name most of: The limk hurling team,or Munster??

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119869998#Comment_119869998

Of course Munster depend on the Cork County Board making the stadium available but why shouldn't Munster at least look to host games there if it made financial sense.

On the underage thing, we've a ton of bigs games in Limerick every season, we play the 3 interpros here, one against one of the best clubs in the world, then we play an English & French club here every season. If that doesn't whet the appetite then matches isn't the issue.