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Was the South Africa match a prelude to moving more matches to Cork?

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  • 11-11-2022 1:43am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭


    I'm wondering now, is this the slow decline of Thomond? I hear there's a lot of influence within Munster sport pushing for more matches to be in PuC like the Leinster derbies.

    Has anyone else heard anything? Is this a genuine worry? I have nothing against Cork etc, but Thomond to me at least is the spiritual home of Munster. Am I living in the past, has Thomond and Limerick lost Munster?



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 24,301 ✭✭✭✭phog


    I reckon you're right, some of those guys in Munster are cute hoors, they used the opportunity of this game to move the goal posts from Thomond to PuC, they might never bring them back.

    We could end up with Cork getting all the games



  • Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭Roxxers


    ah fu ck off



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    With all due respect, could we just enjoy an excellent night for Munster, Irish rugby, and fans who live in/near Cork, without descending into a needless, divisive row over a sinister (and likely unfounded) interpretation of the broader context?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Was the South Africa match a prelude to moving more matches to Cork?

    Yes

    is this the slow decline of Thomond?

    No

    Am I living in the past, has Thomond and Limerick lost Munster?

    Not the past, fantasy land. No.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,816 ✭✭✭Augme


    It will be a revenue based decision and that will largely be down to how much additional revenue can be made in games at PUC when you factor in having to pay to rent it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,487 ✭✭✭touts


    10 years ago Thomond Park was packed for European games. I got my season ticket to make sure I would always get a ticket. I can't remember the last time I saw it packed to the rafters as back then. Mates who used to struggle to get tickets anywhere in the stadium now have no problem getting one in the same area that we have our season tickets and we usually see a sprinkling of empty seats around us. Down in the terraces the days of arriving in an hour before to get a central space with a barrier to lean on are long gone. Now they don't fill up until 10 minutes before the start.

    I can't see Munster moving to PuC for regular games. Special games like last night yes. But beyond that no. Even for knockout games the IRFU will want them to use the Aviva to keep the cash in house.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,301 ✭✭✭✭phog




  • Subscribers Posts: 41,553 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Munster don't control PUC, so that it's paid to the suggestion in the OP



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,437 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    I really hope 'Páirc Uí Caoimhing' becomes the new standard term for when someone shifts the focus of an argument away from the original premise



  • Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭starkid


    thats because of people not travelling to Thomand from Cork. its become bloody expensive.

    this was clearly a precursor to moving some knock out matches over.

    to deny that is to deny reality. a few of the journos already saying so. clear as day. Cork Rugby is sick of the inbalance here. and Limerick is losing numbers to Hurling.

    as said above it all depends on the costs. does the rent mean any extra numbers is irrelevant? or are they still coming away with some profit.

    Rugby needs to keep developing. We've seen how the aviva has been lost to corporate rugby blow ins.

    Irish rugby needs to think outside the box. last night was the start of that process



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,584 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    this was clearly a precursor to moving some knock out matches over.

    I’m not sure we can say that will happen with any certainty tho given the time of year when knockout matches are played, combined with the earlier start to the GAA Championship.

    That could be prohibitive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,301 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Nobody ever travelled from anywhere to a match in Thomand



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Pendantism isn't very funny when it's ad nauseum.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,487 ✭✭✭touts


    The decline in attendance in Thomond has nothing to do with the cost of living crisis. It has been going on for years.

    Have you set foot in Musgrave recently? I have. It's only 8,000 capacity and never sold out either. And many of the faces I see there are also faces I see in Thomond. If the demand for Munster games is so much higher in Cork than in Limerick then maybe you'd want to prove that by encouraging a few Cork lads to start going to Musgrave park.

    You're correct about alternative sports taking fans. Success breeds support and Munster have been struggling recently. That's definately a significant factor in Limerick these days and to a much lesser degree in Cork. Yes Cork may not have had any recent success in any sport (bar rowing) but as Munster have lost more games recently than in the past the prospect of watching Cork regularly lose matches in GAA and Soccer doesn't seem as unappealing to the casual fan so a handful are doubtless heading to Turners Cross and PuC on GAA days. They never sell out either though. I'll take the atmosphere in a 90% full Thomond over a 50% full PuC.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,584 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


     It's only 8,000 capacity and never sold out either.

    Is that true? I thought pre-Covid it was almost always full, or very close to it at least (allowing for a few no-shows you're bound to get).



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    Absolutely no chance

    but It is a bit weird they can get 40000 into a GAA ground or to the Aviva but can barely get 5000 for an actual competitive game.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,308 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    You've got this all wrong, this was a dry run for South Africa to replace the 6 Nations and play their home games in Cork



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,487 ✭✭✭touts



    Maybe it's officially a sell out but it never feels that way. Plenty of space especially at either end. I think when the redevelopment reopened first there were a few busy nights but other than that not remotely full. I had a season ticket for the terrace and never had a problem paying €10 for a seat in that temporary stand we had for a couple of years. Lots of seats there. Then yes the atmosphere improved for a while after the redevelopment. Did ask once could I upgrade to the stand and was told not any more. Now it never feels remotely full in the terraces and there are seats around the stand empty. Will ask next time if I can pay for an upgrade to the stand to see if that option is back. That will tell a lot if the empty seats didn't sell or are no-shows.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,584 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    When have they barely gotten 5000? They invariably always get a good bit more than that.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,584 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Fair enough; I only get there the odd time (maybe once a season max) so was just going off the published attendances which are invariably pretty good (if not full pre-Covid).



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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,301 ✭✭✭✭phog




  • Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭starkid


    you make it sound as people are saying its an option for URC matches. Nobody is saying that.

    its obvious at some stage a competitive QF will be held there.

    also Musgrave park is a shite venue, and there is **** all there. these things matter. would i rather go to the rds, or thomand than Musgrave park? of course i would



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,487 ✭✭✭touts


    QFs are held in the Home venue of the higher ranked team. That's Thomond and won't be changing to PuC as it would have to change for the group games also.

    SFs are held in a neutral venue in the same country of the team selected to host. Munster always seem to lose out on whatever the selection criteria are for that but in the event that we did get drawn to host a SF in ireland then the IRFU will want that to be in the larger capacity Aviva where they won't have to pay rent to the GAA.

    PuC is never hosting a knockout game unless the IRFU buy it or the Aviva burns down.

    Now that said one solution I could see that would benefit all parties would be for the Munster Branch to sell Musgrave Park, FAI (or whoever) to sell Turners Cross and both use the funds raised to buy 1/3rd shares in PuC from the GAA. That would clear the huge financial debt the Cork county board have and would see one stadium used regularly, almost every week. That's what a sensible country would do. That's the idea of Municipal stadia that France have. It's never happening here because the rival sports would rather sit in a glorified cow shed than have a decent stadium they would have to share with another organisation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,110 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    I think PuC might become Munster's preferred venue for European Semi Finals, where use of your own stadium isn't allowed in the first place. There were a lot of red faces last year when we had to move our home quarter final clash with Toulouse to Dublin due to Ed Sheeran playing in Thomond Park and if we had beaten Toulouse then to bring our hard fought home Semi-Final to the home of our opposition would have caused much anger.

    I must be said that just because it will be Munster's preferred venue doesn't guarantee anything. You would still need agreement from the EPCR, the IRFU and the GAA. In that order the EPCR are most likely to sanction it, they've been happy with stadiums from other codes before, while the IRFU will likely show a preference for Landsdowne Road and then there could be a clash with the GAA April-July season so that would be the GAA out

    I can't see regular season matches or even European Quarter Finals (that aren't disrupted by music gigs) being moved there at all and personally I wouldn't like to see it. Our homes are Musgrave and Thomond



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There is no requirement to have Group games and Home QF in the same ground.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    It used to be encouraged not to have a home in your own ground.


    It might have changed after the end of the Heineken Cup but the away team at a quarter final get half the profit from hosting the game.


    If you moved from your home venue to one a certain amount bigger the home teams % of profit would go from 50% to 65%.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    ..



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,110 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    I wonder if they'd ever come to the conclusion that Leinster shouldn't be having home semi-finals in Landsdowne Road on account of it being a home venue of theirs...

    Maybe that the IRFU's thinking...

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,946 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    That rule went out the window years ago. There is no requirement for the SF to be in a neutral venue.



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  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,437 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney




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