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Have We Peaked Again Pre WC

  • 06-11-2022 12:07am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,362 ✭✭✭


    Let's call a spade a spade.Ireland are deservedly #1 in World, but with WC onway and a bad draw,how do you think we will do?

    Have We Peaked Again Pre WC 242 votes

    No it's different this time,we are on fire
    7%
    stephen_nALSLuckycharmCoDy1Podge_irlWheetybasskebabBailMeOutEod100[Deleted User]Sheep breederDwarf.ShortageJump_In_JackGlenomraarsebiscuits1Muller1991Alonzo Mosleymoonshy2022epictetus 19 votes
    Seems a lot like last time we were #1
    30%
    irishgeomada999DeagoldavetheravekippyBionicRashergenericgooninterlockedroverjoycecallaway92wylodaheffcereberusA2LUE42shellda1[Deleted User]4goneConclusionmossy464jack01986Dothehustle 73 votes
    We need to strengthen in some positions but I'm feeling positive
    37%
    Neil3030CrashpickarooneyfitzSleepymatrimSuprSimoby2101JMcLAkrasiaionapaulSkrynesaverTristramrandomname2005Sephiraldam099randombarfguinanDuffongarite 90 votes
    Horrible draw we are gone in 1/4
    24%
    Serbian-Toppy-rtypedClaremanone man clappinjoseywhalesdmigsyAbusesToiletswhat?namloc1980crisco10Colm RKerry_2008Optimus CaesarSteelyDanJalapenoCitizenpaindunleasBoscoirlmunsterfan2mightyreds 60 votes


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Comments

  • Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Seems a lot like last time we were #1

    My thoughts exactly



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,603 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    We need to strengthen in some positions but I'm feeling positive

    France and New Zealand will still most likely beat us, all things being equal.

    But at a RWC, all things aren't equal, its a war of attrition and a test of depth like no other. That attrition killed us before, especially in 2015.

    Are we in good form? Yes

    Are we peaking? Maybe. We won't know till the WC

    If so, can we sustain it another 10 months? Yes, I'd say the chances of doing so are better than at any time previously.

    Do we have better depth than before? An embarrassment of riches in some divisions, but still question marks over the vital 1,3,9 and 10. Maybe 5 also. We saw South Africa today without a 10. If they had one like Morne Steyn, we'd have been beaten by 10 or 12.

    Will we top our RWC pool? Probably.

    Will we beat either France or NZ in the QFs? All else being equal, no, I don't think so.

    Verdict? Quarter final exit. Again.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,700 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    No it's different this time,we are on fire

    If you think it is a lot like last time we were #1 then you were paying piss all attention to the last time we were #1 as it bears very little comparison.

    We still have an absolute pisser of a draw. Do I think we can beat France or NZ in France come the QF? Absolutely. Will we? hard to know - the 4 best teams in the world are on the same side of the draw and such is life.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 34,767 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    We need to strengthen in some positions but I'm feeling positive

    The official rankings might say otherwise but we're a bit behind the actual best team in the world and they have home advantage of and when they play us at the RWC.

    And as for depth, Friday should have somewhat disabused us of that idea.

    But we can beat SA, Scotland and NZ, provided Sexton is in situ and on form, which is itself about 50/50.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    We need to strengthen in some positions but I'm feeling positive

    The phrase peaked too soon is unhelpful because it makes it seem deliberate or that you can only be good for a limited period of time.

    In 2018 Ireland had played some amazing rugby. But every big match was hard fought and things bounced our way. Schmidt had figured out the secret sauce to beating New Zealand - commit everyone to creating an impenetrable line of 14 which NZ cant penetrate and are effectively choked out! Great strategy, but Eddie Jones quickly figured out for 2019 that a good kicking game cuts through this strategy.

    Then the squad got demoralised and it seemed like they struggled in every match.

    It wasnt that they just peaked and tapered off a bit, its that they had a good but risky strategy which worked and got a few lucky breaks in 2018 and then the pressure got to them.

    This time, they seem to be built on a much more solid footing. They are more flexible under Farrell and its working. In 2019 there was no obvious full back and Sexton appeared to be having a crisis of confidence. Murray was playing well, but the JGP style of play suits Ireland much better.

    Areas of weakness - scrum and front row depth, who to choose on the wings and the big problem (for me anyway) is what will Andy Farrell do if Sexton doesnt have his head in the game. I think he could well reach a point where Sexton is more of a liability than an asset, and its not clear if Farrell will make the difficult choice to pick someone else ahead of him.

    In any event, regardless of the world cup, lets have an undefeated november series and maybe we will do well in the six nations



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    Horrible draw we are gone in 1/4

    No back up to sexton , furlong, Gibson park

    roll on 2027



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,695 ✭✭✭Girly Gal


    Horrible draw we are gone in 1/4

    We might be the number 1 ranked side in the world, which seems mainly based on beating New Zealand, who themselves were in poor form at the time. We don't have any silverware to show for being the number 1 side, also it has to be said if SA had a decent kicker today, we'd have lost. I do think we are much more flexible under Farrell than under Schmidt, when everything was so controlled and pre-programmed, that when things were going against us just we weren't able to adapt and change during a match. Farrell has given the side much more flexibility which allows the side to adjust and adapt during games, which is a great ability to have.

    I think drawing France or NZ( much like the last WC when it was NZ or SA) is the biggest problem, probably couldn't have gotten a worse draw, had we been on the other side of the draw we would have a much better chance of progressing to the semi final, as it is I think another quarter final knockout is very much on the cards. We'll just have to hope for a kinder quarter final draw next time around.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    No it's different this time,we are on fire

    The idea we have peaked too soon is predicated on the false notion, this is the peak performance of the team. We beat SA yesterday, while actually playing relatively poorly by our recent standards. There is a lot of room for improvement and we know they are capable of that.

    Number one in the world means feck all really. What matters is the layers they are adding to their game. The amount of injuries and lack of gametime for key players would have absolutely screwed us in the past. In fact it has at previous RWC. Yet they came out yesterday and managed to arm wrestle the strongest team in the world. Obviously with the caveat that it’s unlikely Kolbe or Willemse will be doing the kicking in a serious game.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,132 ✭✭✭Shehal


    We need to strengthen in some positions but I'm feeling positive

    If we are abit behind the actual best team then why are Ireland 1st? The 6N also indicated there wasnt much between the sides either.

    What Friday showed is throwing a bunch of kids together and hoping they would have continuity isn't a good idea, like the 1st Maori test in NZL.

    We are good enough to beat anyone we play as long as we believe we can, none of this loser/humble talk like we saw from Alan Quinlan during the week, we need to go into a RWC with abit of arrogance for a change.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,132 ✭✭✭Shehal


    We need to strengthen in some positions but I'm feeling positive

    What exactly is similar this time to the last time we were number 1 could you tell me out of curiosity? I ask this because I don't really see the resemblance.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭moonshy2022


    No it's different this time,we are on fire

    Oh Jesus FFS not this crap again. Some would have said after beating New Z away it was a peak, but then we go on and beat the World Champs with a ravaged team. Have we peaked ?! Show me where the peak is exactly ? The thing is you can’t because it’s only something you will ever see when you look back.


    Irish people love talking teams down, Irish people love misery. I’m happy that you’ve all found people you can be unhappy with, but would you all mind going off together so we can enjoy our wins.


    Jesus wept where would you lot like us to be exactly. Beaten soundly in New Z ? Losing at home to the Boks and Oz ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    We need to strengthen in some positions but I'm feeling positive

    Good post..

    "Do we have better depth than before? An embarrassment of riches in some divisions, but still question marks over the vital 1,3,9 and 10. Maybe 5 also. We saw South Africa today without a 10. If they had one like Morne Steyn, we'd have been beaten by 10 or 12."

    I would say for the 6 nations coming up, we need to be starting back up players for most of the matches in the positions you outlined above.

    I think this 6 nations and ranking are the last things we need to be thinking about (I know 6 bations cash is bread and butter).

    We need definite experience for our backups... and not 3 minutes (re:Carberry)

    I'll feel alot morepositive when backups get significant exposure..

    Doak Casey Coombes JOB Osbourne Thornbury Baird Hodnett Hume McClosky Rea Crowley Moore



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,234 ✭✭✭StevenToast


    Seems a lot like last time we were #1

    The world cup isnt about getting to a semi final....for this team its about winning it.....

    The problem is beating SA and NZ will take a toll by the time we get to the semis......

    "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." - Fletcher



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭realhorrorshow


    It's hard to imagine a 2018 style malaise under Farrell. Our attacking shape is also not as easily shut down as Schmidt's attritional style, plus we have just shown we can beat top teams even when our phase play is not making inroads. The WC largely comes down to luck with injuries imo. As things stand, if Sexton goes down we are cooked. Just like South Africa would have been without Pollard in 2019.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭Downlinz


    Horrible draw we are gone in 1/4

    We'll have a 38 year old outhalf at the RWC with barely any minutes in big games given to alternatives. We're toast in the QF.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,209 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    People's answers are dictated entirely by their personality. This is the rugby equivalent of "is the glass half full or half empty".

    We just beat South Africa but we had lots of areas in which we can improve, we gave three guys their biggest test yet in international rugby and we had to reshuffle quite a bit due to injury.

    There are plenty of reasons to believe we can get better. Plenty of reasons to be concerned too, but that's the way of the game.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,653 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Attrition is similar for all sides. Building depth is where matches are won. Farrell is doing well. Rassie is doing similar with SA. The "A" game was to see how fringe players cope. Unfortunately, they couldn't and some lads will be waiting post world cup for a bite at the big show. NZ will be delighted their xv on Friday. I think that depth wise they are ahead of us. Peaking early is irrelevant, if we can't chuck boys into the team and maintain standards. Obviously, Carberry only got 3 minutes and I think that says everything. He's really not trusted or rated. He should start next week. A good outing v Fiji may get him into a run of confidence and good play.

    Sexton is beyond incredible! 37 years of age and staring down the boks! What a player.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,776 ✭✭✭Patsy167


    They briefly discussed this topic on the OTB Sunday paper review and made an interesting point that if all of the top rugby nations were given the option of having the World Cup now or in one years time, only Ireland would choose now.



  • Subscribers Posts: 40,519 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    The alternatives have shown time and time and time again, that they aren't at the required level in "big" games. They are barely passable in lesser games.

    We've tried burns, Byrne's x 2, carty and carbery. Lately we're trying frawley and Crowley.

    We're also developing a game style which is less dependent on our 10.

    The lack of a realistic replacement for sexton is absolutely not the fault of the coaching team, and no amount is minutes in "big games" is going to make any of them any better.... Which has been proven over and over



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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,603 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    We need to strengthen in some positions but I'm feeling positive

    Its the elephant in the room. We'll never make it through the pool intact (as nobody does), but there's a higher than average chance that one of those down will be Sexton.

    My perception yesterday was that he is feeling his age. Seen really blowing after a gnarly period of defence and he really felt that chest shot and quad strain for the second half.

    Sexton must not play against Fiji, of Italy, Scotland or Wales.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,700 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    No it's different this time,we are on fire

    He can't go 2 months playing only one game either...

    We don't need him to beat Scotland, but its also 2 weeks after the South Africa game. We have far more rest this time round.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]



    12 tackles yesterday including one that resulted in a maul / turnover and one other where the player was held up in the tackle. Most tackles of any of the backs.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,600 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    I thought the previous poster was suggest that Sexton be rested for Fiji next week and Wales Scotland and Italy in the six nations to develop a replacement.

    Maybe not feasible if we need 6 nations money but if we are winning we should definitely haul him ashore early.


    In the rugby world cup we will be fine if theres no injuries. Rest Sexton for Romania, play him against Tonga (pull him ashore after 50 minutes if need be) and South Africa. Then there's a rest week before Scotland.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,700 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    No it's different this time,we are on fire

    Sorry yeah, skim read it too quickly.

    He's going to play against Scotland and Wales for sure though.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 34,767 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    We need to strengthen in some positions but I'm feeling positive

    We're first because we played and beat NZ while France didn't. We haven't beaten France in a while so unless and until we beat them in the spring we can't legitimately claim to be better than them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,317 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    We should be smart and play a second string team against SA in the pool stage.

    No point flogging the horses for an extra 80 minutes because playing NZ or France is much a muchness in the QF and going to war with SA will only fill the treatment tables before the business end of the competition.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,700 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    No it's different this time,we are on fire

    Deliberately losing is not smart.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,317 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers




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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,700 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    No it's different this time,we are on fire

    Oh yeah, massive second team there. Basically not even trying. 🙄



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