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Inherited farm lease query

  • 03-11-2022 10:26pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 37


    Hi,

    We recently inherited a farm from my mother(she made no will).There are five siblings,and one of our brothers has moved his cattle onto this farm for grazing etc.There was no prior discussion about this,as the rest of us want to the sell the farm.We have asked our brother to cease farming on this land but to no effect.So my question is can we put some sort of lease agreement in place with our brother,until we decide what to do re sale etc.?Probate will take a while yet,so I don't know what actions we can take.Any advise would be appreciated.

    Post edited by Jim2007 on


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,241 ✭✭✭StevenToast


    Get him to buy ye out....

    "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." - Fletcher



  • Registered Users Posts: 37 Malbcull22


    Hi,unfortunately that will not be happening.The person in question believes he has an automatic right to occupy the property,soley down to the fact he has a share in it.He refuses to accept we are going to sell,but our problem now is that he will not vacate the lands in question.It's more complicated than I would like,but I just don't know our best option is now..



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,241 ✭✭✭StevenToast


    Sounds like a prìck, unfortunate your mother didnt sort out the will.....

    You just have to all sit down and trash it out....let him know ye are entitled to your share also....

    "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." - Fletcher



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,525 ✭✭✭Furze99


    Who was working the farm prior to your mother's sad passing?



  • Registered Users Posts: 37 Malbcull22


    Hi,there was a verbal agreement between my father and brother,that he could continue to farm on the land.There was no lease or anything in place.I'm hoping to work out it out between us,but it's difficult.Anyway,until probate is granted,I think we're status quo for now.We'll just to wait and see how it works out.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,873 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Consult a solicitor.



  • Registered Users Posts: 37 Malbcull22


    Spoke to solicitor today,we'll have to wait until probate is granted,and only after that,can we demand that the lands are vacated.It should be early in the New Year,depending on how quick the probate is sorted.



  • Registered Users Posts: 247 ✭✭phildub


    So he was farming the land before the death of your mother? From your original post it sounded like she died and he just put cows on the land.

    In another post you said he thinks he has an automatic right. Probate hasn't issued and he had permission from title holders so he does have a right. Once probate issues he will own a share and he will still have a right.

    Also you seem to think once probate issues that will sort everything out. You should speak to your solicitor about the law of equity. He might be fully entitled to remain on the land.



  • Registered Users Posts: 37 Malbcull22


    Hi,i probably was not clear in my first post.Both my parents are now deceased.The main issue here is that my brother has not consulted,or asked pemission to farm on this land.We want to preserve it so that is suitable for sale next year.Our solicitor advised that when probate is granted,we can go ahead and put the lands up for sale,our brother says he'll contest it so will have to wait and see.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,998 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    On what basis will he contest ? Perhaps point out its divided between the family he buy it at auction. If he contests by court tell him all costs will borne by him. Therefore if he loses and it looks like he would the costs could be considerable.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 533 ✭✭✭AnRothar


    You mention that your brother had a verbal agreement with your father regarding his use of the land.

    Did your father predeceased your mother?

    Did your father have a will?

    The answer to these questions will be important.



  • Registered Users Posts: 37 Malbcull22


    Hi,


    My brother had a verbal agreement with my father that he work this farm;my mother owned it,and he did not pay any rent or anything like that for the use of it.


    My mother died,without making a will.Shortly afterwards,my father died,and my mother's estate had not been sorted out etc.At that stage,there were no animals on the farm.

    My brother then proceeded to move cattle again onto the farm in question,and carry out work on it.We did not grant permission for this,as we want to sell the farm next year.

    We want the farm vacated,as it will cost us more money in the long run,reseeding fields etc.Our solicitor has now told me that this will not happen,until probate is completed.

    We're hoping that our brother will not contest it,as I din't think he'll want to be out of pocket etc.so we'll wait and see how things work out in the new year.


    .



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,091 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    You should ensure that you keep all communications going through your solicitor. Your objections to your brother behaviour should be communicated through your silicitor so that there is a proper record.



  • Registered Users Posts: 37 Malbcull22


    I'm doing that at least,I've made our solicitor aware of the situation at present,so I can be sure that I'm doing all I can to proceed matters as intended.



  • Registered Users Posts: 533 ✭✭✭AnRothar


    OK, your mother died without a will do rules of intestate will apply to her estate.

    I assume that they were married.

    Your father subsequently passed.

    Did your father leave a will?



  • Registered Users Posts: 37 Malbcull22


    Yes,as my mother didn't make a will,the farm in question,passes to her children(5 of us).My father made a will,the same brother I previously mentioned,inherited both family and farm,straight forward enough



  • Registered Users Posts: 37 Malbcull22


    Sorry,typo on the last comment,my brother also inherited the family home and farm.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,546 ✭✭✭rock22


    Would your father not have inherited 2/3rds from your mother if she made no will? Chidren would be entitles=d to 1/3 of mothers estate.

    If I read it correctly, this brother then inherited 2/3rd of farm from your father?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,318 ✭✭✭XsApollo


    Doesn’t 2/3 of your mothers assets not pass on to your father? So the farm doesn’t pass on to the 5 children? 1/3 will pass on. Which is then 4/5ths of a third then considering your brother inherited the other 2/3s?

    sounds like you are contesting and expecting your brother to sell the farm? When according to yourself he now owns most of it?



  • Posts: 5,121 [Deleted User]


    The father might not have addressed the mother's land in his will, if he died soon after his wife.

    The father's will might only address explicitly the home house and farm, not the additional land.

    It sounds like a mess and I doubt the brother will sign a lease on land he believes is his.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,979 ✭✭✭blackbox


    This appears to be an accurate summation to me.

    The original post was misleading as it implied that the father died first.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,525 ✭✭✭Furze99


    Can't see this being straightforward at all. Farm, land & buildings in your mother's name. Presumably your father 'married in' as they say? How many years were they married, living & farming here. Was your father mainly working the farm all this time? What money was invested in it and where did it come from? Does anyone know what your mother's views were on who should take over the farm eventually? How much work did your brother do on the farm to help over the years? How much did other siblings contribute? These will be all be factors to greater or lesser extents. That your father survived your mother and left a will is important.



  • Posts: 5,121 [Deleted User]


    There are two separate farms by the sounds of it. A home farm held by the father and additional land held by the mother.



  • Registered Users Posts: 37 Malbcull22


    Hi,yes,sorry If I was not clear on the ownership of my mother's farm.It's a separate farm from my father's,and as she didn't make a will,it passes to each of us.Probate had not started on her estate before my Dad died,so my brother did not inherit it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 37 Malbcull22


    And to add to that,my father did not address the issue of my mother's farm in his will.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,767 ✭✭✭cute geoge


    What will happen when ye put mothers farm up for sale and your brother splashes 'no sale family farm 'up on the entrance.Was yer brother working the mothers farm with the home farm .This is some mess and strange your mother had no will .The best ye can hope for would be make a deal with brother to let him keep more then his share and then sell the rest .Highly unlikely he is going to let his share been sold and proper order too!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 37 Malbcull22


    No,we are trying to deal with him,to work out a fair solution in the event of selling the farm.Like all of these matters,it should have been addressed when my mother was alive.I wasn't even aware she had made no will,so I knew we'd have problems down the line.



  • Registered Users Posts: 247 ✭✭phildub


    If your mother predeceased your father 2/3 of her estate passed automatically to your father and will now make up the residue of the fathers estate. The other 3rd will be split between the children.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,525 ✭✭✭Furze99


    Fair dues to you for figuring this out. Without wishing to be disrespectful of the person enquiring, this is clearly quite a complicated set of circumstances, though not entirely unusual when it comes to land, family farms and inheritances. But hoping for useful advice when all the basic facts are not explained initially is not very productive.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 37 Malbcull22


    Phildub,this is a point I'm unsure about.When my father passed,nothing had been done re my mother's estate.



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