The great big bus driver shortage. Why in the name of god would you drive a bus these days anyway...

d51984

As the title suggests why? Horrible hours, , not been able to see your family and kids a lot, working horrible shifts, daily abuse and the money isnt the best neither.

I worked at Dublin bus, put up with the abuse, the **** hours. I left couldn't do it anymore. Now I'm working Monday to Friday, 6am-2pm in a warehouse for a large retailer, and guess what?. Im coming out with nearly 200 euro more and have my weekends free.

I feel better, my stress levels are way down and for the first time in a long time Im happy.

Driver shortages are just going to get worse, a lot of drivers leaving aswell, why would anyone join the industry now? What can be done to change things?

Thoughts??....

For the same reason that there is NO First Class / Business Class services on the island. There are First Class coach services in the US, UK and Japan. You have Gold Liner Buses, but yeah, that does'nt elevate the passengers on board.

My experience of Bus Eireann stopping at Dublin Airport, looking at the itinerary to Galway or wherever, okay a few more minutes, but looking at the Tired & Cranky people board coming off the planes and then they have to put on their luggage. Deflates the journey after the first mile or two. If you've travelled on Bus Eireann like this from Dublin AIrport, don't take it personally! ;D

thinkabouit

Quite simply they’ll have to up the wages

the person in charge of a bus with up to 50+ people should be very well compensated

full time contact, 30 days holidays a year + healthcare should attract people and more importantly, keep them.

Burt Renaults

There's only one way to make it universally more attractive. Increase the pay to a level where it automatically becomes an attractive and sought-after job. Off the top of my head, I'm aware of DB drivers who commute from Cavan, Louth, Carlow, Kilkenny, Wexford, Westmeath, east Galway and even Sligo, because they can't afford to live closer to Dublin. You need to be able to attract people who can afford to live within reasonable driving distance of their workplace.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119825339#Comment_119825339

And none of them can get better jobs closer to home? Really?

bigroad

I think a better work,life balance might help.

20 quid an hour and a 4 day week.

Any abuse and it's off .

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119825349#Comment_119825349

All of them could. And in time, all of them probably will.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119825327#Comment_119825327

Salary: Average salary €791.55 per week (5-day week inclusive of shift and Sunday premium), increasing to €916.50 (6 year pay scale). Annually… 41,160 - 47,658

that’s from the Dublin Bus advertisement for drivers..published last January..

https://www.dublinbus.ie/Careers/Bus-Drivers/

So the basic wage is good, bad, indifferent ? What do people think ? proportionate to the skills and responsibilities required ?

it’s a very responsible job yes. But ‘highly’ skilled ? I’m just asking that question genuinely as someone who has never driven anything bigger then an SUV to be honest so….

30 days holidays + healthcare is certainly a sweetener or would be…

increasing wages where drivers are on close to a grand a week ?

Dublin bus is owned by the state so it’s the tax payers picking up the tab.

thomasj

Is that salary listed gross pay ? Because on that rate I think you'd be paying 40% tax alongside prsi and USC etc

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119825425#Comment_119825425

It's clearly not a good enough wage. If it was, there wouldn't be a massive shortage of people prepared to do the job. The high level of responsibility is one of the reasons why the rewards need to be higher, regardless of any arguments about the skill. I totally get why that's unpalatable, but if we want a good public transport system, we'll have to pay for it.

thinkabouit

Wages aren’t bad too be fair, if you couldn’t live off that then that’s your own problem.

and like others have posted, by the time you have your tax’s paid, it’s as average a wage as any other out

Early or part time retirement and decent pension is what it’s all about

Liam O

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119825524#Comment_119825524

That's not how progressive tax works.

Still stihl waters 3

Like driving trucks it's a tough job where the pay doesn't reflect the responsibility given to these drivers, along with that until they reduce the cost to train to get the licence I can't see it improving, it costs thousands to get the artic or bus licence, I was at a cpc course where they mentioned the average age of a bus driver is mid 60s its much the same for truckers, we be like the UK soon where they've had to draft in thousands of foreign drivers to alleviate the pressure

thinkabouit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119826177#Comment_119826177

100%

the industry is completely over regulated IMO

massive fines for very simple mistakes

doing 1 of those CPCs every year would turn anybody off joining the industry

When a 17 year old can drive a JCB Fastrac doing 70kmph hauling 20 tonnes of grain on a provisional license down the road it’s deemed grand and acceptable!

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058270117/the-great-big-bus-driver-shortage-why-in-the-name-of-god-would-you-drive-a-bus-these-days-anyway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119825666#Comment_119825666

There is a shortage of labour in general in the economy right now, and it certainly is not confined to bus driving.

This is reflecting that issue, and I suspect the effects of the housing crisis are also affecting the situation.

Bus driving isn’t a job for everyone, shift work often is neither, and with the increased operating hours of the bus service as more 24 hour routes are rolled out, it may well becoming less attractive.

At the same time there are limits to what the companies can afford to pay - there isn’t a bottomless pit of money out there.

Fizzy Duck

I've said it before. It totally depends on individual circumstances and particularly in Dublin Bus, which depot you are in. I'm in Summerhill. Some says it's the best, some say it's not. For me I can only compare it to previous jobs and the previous job I had in the industry was with Go-Ahead. So I know it could be worse.

Summerhill compared to stories I've heard from Phibsboro or Clontarf drivers seem to offer better duties because there are less routes (15a/b, 16, 33, 41/bc, 123). You'd almost know what duties you are going to get from week to week.

Again, I don't find the money to be too bad. I can get by. I couldn't vote in August because I was away (I would've voted no, because I felt we could get a better deal). It was annoying that I couldn't vote on our future conditions because I'd booked a trip 6 months previously. But sure what's done is done.

I do the job because I always wanted to be a bus driver, again I'm probably in a small minority. It doesn't mean I can't see the company has faults. People say I could easily take a different higher paying job. I probably could relevant to my degree, but I prefer bus driving. It makes me happy. My wife and I love a good life from it, while she is at college and not working at the moment.

Cookie_Monster

Conditions matter just as much as pay for many. Given the increasing amount of late or night shifts, total lack of facilities (both lunch rooms and public toilets in general), crappy split shifts being a thing etc it really isn't attractive from a work life balance either.

Raichu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119825339#Comment_119825339

Have seen this myself. DB drivers getting the bus home. Always wondered how they felt about the commute, was it sickening to be on a bus again or was it nice to not have to drive? Maybe a bit of both.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119826390#Comment_119826390

That 17 year old isn’t carrying circa 50 passengers onboard, while potentially being subjected to numerous distractions all at once.

Wishbone Ash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058270117/the-great-big-bus-driver-shortage-why-in-the-name-of-god-would-you-drive-a-bus-these-days-anyway

Many people prefer shift work and irregular hours and it usually pays better. I've been doing shift work for 35 years and wouldn't do anything else. I'd hate to have every weekend off - I'd much prefer to have days off during the week.

dfx-

Not only is the environment and pay clearly not attractive, but it has been a hostile environment for ten years. Drivers (and staff) have been criticised for striking at new working conditions, the regulator obsessed with having multiple operators brought in to drive down costs (mostly staff costs). Added to that, people who were there are leaving. They have incrementally made the job less and less attractive...so no-one is doing it or staying in it.

And now, after all that, their big plan and a lot of its services is brought to its knees by a lack of staff. There's a ring of completing the circle to that.

Jafin

I was on an Expressway bus a few weeks ago in Limerick, waiting to depart. Someone came on to the bus that the driver knew (I think she also worked for the company, but I don't know in what capacity) and the driver was essentially saying he was at his wit's end because he was only given hours on the weekend and kept being promised full time hours, yet the company kept taking on new drivers and giving them full time hours and wouldn't give them to him.

Of course this is just one anecdote from a single driver, no idea if this is common throughout the company as a whole or not.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119826880#Comment_119826880

They get free travel so it's a bit of a no brainer for them to use the bus to get to work provided they live on a bus route that'll take to the garage they are based at. Saves the cost of running a car.

Losty Dublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119828981#Comment_119828981

One DB driver I know gets the train in wherever possible as he finds his local bus routes unreliable. Clue; BE and DB aren't his local bus companies 🤫

thinkabouit

What do other countries offer To retain drivers I wonder.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119829911#Comment_119829911

Other countries throughout Europe having similar issues, London, Poland, etc.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119826592#Comment_119826592

So do you have a solution? It seems hypocritical that management likely on 6 figure salaries themselves can claim that they can't afford to pay drivers anymore.

Burt Renaults

It's funny how you only ever hear the term "bottomless pit" when people are trying to justify keeping working class wages down. We never hear it in relation to rising house prices or huge increases in household bills. We're expected to just suck that up. It's quite simple - the same logic of supply and demand must apply to wages. Current wages aren't attracting anywhere near enough drivers. Therefore wages need to increase. There is no other alternative.

Jamie2k9

Not sure DB only offering Thur-Sun work helps. I get the seniority side but surly a better balance can be found.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119830459#Comment_119830459

Any company is going to pay both management and staff different rates - that's a fact of life, but neither should be of a nature that is excessive or above market rates. Raising driver wages further will have a larger impact on accounts simply by virtue of the headcount numbers involved.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119830580#Comment_119830580

First of all, Dublin Bus have struck an agreement with the staff and unions on pay and conditions for the next number of years. I don't think they're suddenly going to unilaterally change that after the length of time it took to reach that point.

There are legal responsibilities that the companies have to follow. The directors have a legal obligation to ensure that company is run in a responsible and efficient manner in line with the requirements laid out in the Companies Acts. That's the context of my comment about the reality of what can and can't be done- raising driver wages for example further beyond the pay deal struck, would have a significant impact on costs, quite simply by virtue of the headcount, and if that is not covered by increased revenues, then there is a problem. The company can't be run without regard to the Balance Sheet.

To be quite honest, in the case of Dublin Bus, much of the problem is not really of the company's making as such, but has far more to do with a combination of the housing crisis, which is a government problem and one for them to solve, and far more importantly a general shortage or labour. We are near full employment, so simply raising wages isn't going to solve this overnight. It's going to take action at government level to solve those problems.

I suspect that the expansion is just going to have to take longer to deliver - just simply raising wages won't solve it because there aren't available staff. There will still be more people joining, but I suspect that it will be at a slower rate than the NTA wanted.

In the meantime, the NTA and the bus companies need to look at the schedules and come up with revised schedules that they can deliver. That would involve schedule cuts on certain routes, but I think people would prefer a timetable that they can have confidence will operate, as opposed to the random nature of the cancellations at curtailments.

LXFlyer

Just to add the comment that Dublin Bus still has EUR 25.2m of accumulated losses to recover on the Balance Sheet - that has to be cleared off at some point.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119831368#Comment_119831368

Well the alternative is heavy fines from the NTA which isn't going to help with that balance sheet either.