New Boston virus (lab developed super-COVID)

Having got away without killing millions of healthy people with the previous (possible) lab escape, these nutters are developing a new super COVID that could kill up to 80% of victims.

This would make the Spanish flu outbreak of 1918 seem trivial. More like the black death of the middle ages.

Are people really that MAD!!

https://youtu.be/_WTZo9ieBKY

The last thing we need is a virus like this escaping from the lab!

source material is from the institution involved in the research

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.10.13.512134v1

medi_bai

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058268675/new-boston-virus-lab-developed-super-covid

Not this **** clown of a “doctor” again

martingriff

You think this is new labs all over the world have deadly virus and pathogens. They do this for research for cures. You know prevention is better then looking for a cure after. Otherwise we be telling them all yo burn away what they have and only do research if the worst happens. So which one do you want

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119783092#Comment_119783092

Your reply was so rapid, it is obvious that you did not view the video.

Watch it and then reply.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119783104#Comment_119783104

They do research on the viruses that are already out there, not create new ones that are extra deadly when they are working on vaccines that will prevent the spread of such viruses!

This is a deliberate (successful) attempt to create a deadlier virus that could potentially kill millions, this is nothing to do with research into cures & treatments it's about bio-warfare.

Here is the document from the Lab in question

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.10.13.512134v1

Quote "We generated chimeric recombinant SARS-CoV-2 encoding the S gene of Omicron in the backbone of an ancestral SARS-CoV-2 isolate and compared this virus with the naturally circulating Omicron variant. The Omicron S-bearing virus robustly escapes vaccine-induced humoral immunity, mainly due to mutations in the receptor-binding motif (RBM), yet unlike naturally occurring Omicron, efficiently replicates in cell lines and primary-like distal lung cells. In K18-hACE2 mice, while Omicron causes mild, non-fatal infection, the Omicron S-carrying virus inflicts severe disease with a mortality rate of 80%."

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119783092#Comment_119783092

Is this the same Dr John who posted right through Covid as a Doctor when he is a retired A&E Nurse? It seems to be, so I'm taking it with a pinch of salt after he was shown to be spreading misinformation so many times then.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119783187#Comment_119783187

Yes, just for balance. At the very least I'd be reticent to fully accept his claims.

John Campbell (YouTuber) - Wikipedia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119783210#Comment_119783210

You don't need to believe his claim, I have included the original source file in the post.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119783187#Comment_119783187

Misinformation, that now looking back was mostly proven to be correct.

Anyone who deviates from the narrative must be destroyed..

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119783246#Comment_119783246

A failure to aspirate was a cause of myocarditis - misinformation and shown to be so.

ivermectin was responsible for a sudden decline in COVID-19 cases in Japan. - untrue they hardly used it and never sanctioned it's use.

a Pfizer document showed it was associated with 1,223 deaths. - when clearly the document said no such thing.

The claim that a report showed the risk to children from COVID-19 vaccination was much greater than the risk of getting seriously ill from COVID-19 - the authors came out with a statement that they had actually said the opposite.

So, he has hardly been shown to be right, has he?

As I said, take it with a pinch of salt.

Stormyteacup

Not sure why OPs initial post has resulted in a critique of nurse/doctor John.

Gain of Function Research is not a theory. It’s carried out worldwide and has been for some time.

The issue is with diseases that affect humans, and the need for strict regulation if manipulation to make disease more deadly to humans is being pursued.

It’s a double-edged sword, it’s possible that it will enhance prevention or cure of dangerous diseases, but there is high risk involved. It was barred for a time. This article is good for information;

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02903-x

But so long as the information-sharer can be discredited then the information can automatically be discredited, right?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119783329#Comment_119783329

Some great cherry-picking there, as I said he was proven to be mostly correct, the 15% increase in excess mortality due to "unknown" causes is one example.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119783187#Comment_119783187

Not sure whether he ever claimed to be a medical doctor in fairness.

I have to say, I personally thought his commentary was as good and more accurate and balanced than many on the same and similiar platforms.

Haven't watched this video yet as have been avoiding all things COVID on youtube related since January thus year

thebaz

You really think after a 2 year pandemic , that brought the world to a halt for so long , that game of function testing or messing with nature with a more deadly virus would be severely restricted , this is deeply worrying . The conspiracy was that Covid escaped from a Game of Function lab in Wuhan , and today you have the United States allowing Game of Function experimintation to continue. Hopefully it is really well supervised and regulated but very worrying after all the world has ben through and sacrifised the past 2 years.

thebaz

Hope the Scientists at Boston University are investigated fully as it sound like they breached regulations.:-

https://www.ft.com/content/f2e88a9c-104a-4515-8de1-65d72a5903d0

Thankfully, the mutated virus does not seam as deadly as in Dr. John video, nevertheless Game of Function research needs to be regulated rigoursly, given what we all had to endure with Covid, even if it did nor escape from a lab.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119783950#Comment_119783950

Well, as Dr John was quoting from the source article, I don't see how you can say "does not seem as deadly".

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.10.13.512134v1

Quote "We generated chimeric recombinant SARS-CoV-2 encoding the S gene of Omicron in the backbone of an ancestral SARS-CoV-2 isolate and compared this virus with the naturally circulating Omicron variant. The Omicron S-bearing virus robustly escapes vaccine-induced humoral immunity, mainly due to mutations in the receptor-binding motif (RBM), yet unlike naturally occurring Omicron, efficiently replicates in cell lines and primary-like distal lung cells. In K18-hACE2 mice, while Omicron causes mild, non-fatal infection, the Omicron S-carrying virus inflicts severe disease with a mortality rate of 80%."

medi_bai

I don’t need to watch the guy. He has been shown time and time again to be completely off the mark with his various takes.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119784266#Comment_119784266

Well read the article instead!

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119784266#Comment_119784266

Can you provide us with a few examples?

thebaz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119784095#Comment_119784095

According to NY Times this new newly created virus is not as lethal as original virus :-

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/22/science/covid-virus-laboratory-experiments.html

As I said they should not be messing with Game of Function , and certainly should be sticking to regulations, but looks like the more lethal claim is an over-exageration, other media outlets saying so too.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119784910#Comment_119784910

So, who are we supposed to believe, the paper from the Scientists working at the Lab in question, or a newspaper journalist who had interpreted the article and rewritten it for the general public.

It is type of journalism that exaggerated the dangers of COVID to healthy people that caused the mass hysteria we're witnessed over the past three years

That is now trying to underplay the risks in another lab outbreak that could really be a mass killer.

It's little wonder many people have lost theie trust of scientists, journalist and most critically politicians.

thebaz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119785165#Comment_119785165

I do not have the answers to that , like much of Covid, how it miraculously stopped in the western world last January . But if it this was such a threat to the world, I believe the media would be all over it. I just hope it is investaged properly to ensure ther is zero chance of a leak , but I am not condoing this testing/ experiment, I think it should be outlawed, unless ther is a reason I dont know, but why such a risk is even taken, given all we have been through, that I dont know.

EOQRTL

No idea about the YouTube doctor but the source for the research is undeniable.

I see the pandemic of misrepresentation continues. Generally at an inverse proportion to how much they actually understand this source

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119788469#Comment_119788469

Whats your thoughts on his piece about unexplained excess deaths, you were a huge proponent of the severe restrictions...must be getting a little uncomfortable now looking back?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119788532#Comment_119788532

Why do you lie? Where did I express an opinion that was in line with being a huge proponent of restrictions? Or is it that questioning the misrepresentation of the cranks automatically makes someone a huge proponent of restrictions?

Excess deaths in the first part of the year followed covid deaths. There were still quite a few in Europe up to spring. Summer had a massive heatwave in Europe with resulting spike in excess deaths. Now back close to normal. There is also elements of vulnerable people who were sheltering during covid now getting exposed to covid and other pathogens and elements of missed early medical interventions. But for 2022 the overwhelming factors are covid and heat.

Care to comment that the brains trust here are misrepresenting a study on mice, who have been bred to be susceptible to the virus, having an 80% mortality to a version of the virus being tested, as being evidence that they developed a virus with 80% mortality?

That is what this place is, compare apples with jet engines and claim that because apples fall from a tree all planes are going to crash

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119788621#Comment_119788621

I'm not sure we are allowed to talk about the existence of gain of function research and Covid, so I'll stay out of it thanks.

You were one of the many posters on here throughout the pandemic defending restrictions, you refused time and time again to recognize the seasonality factor of the pandemic, which I'm guessing allowed you defend the year round restrictions, no doubt fully in the belief you were "following the science" or some other banal statement the government drilled into you.

If you think the heatwave in Europe is responsible for the excess deaths we are seeing here in Ireland, then I don't know what to say to you, that is delusional....you have abandoned your ability to critically analyze!!!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119788657#Comment_119788657

Jesus, you’re still on your pacific island aren’t you. Still beating the seasonal drum. I think an early summer wave of infections showed that particular theory up

And I also see you are continuing to lie about anyone who doesn’t buy into your bizarre narratives.

Here is the official data source on excess mortality in Europe, which is what I was talking about. Not much of a spike showing for Ireland in 2022, but our data does lag by up to 90 days so let’s see where it goes

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps

And just completion, figures that are available for excess mortality in Ireland recently are based off analysis of data from RIP.ie. The excess deaths by this metric are running fairly close to the number of recorded covid deaths this year. I suspect however what this data will show once the official data is in is that the use of RIP .ie for posting death notices has increased during the pandemic, and that the population has grown 6% over the period being monitored

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119789103#Comment_119789103

Seasonal factor is a bizarre theory????

I didn't or wouldn't suggest the virus disappears at any stage of the year, it just isn't a threat that justified the severe restrictions, that we can now see have done untold damage to people....restrictions that you in particular were very supportive of!!

Just because you post in a very smug tone doesn't make you right! You still deny the seasonal factor and you still believe that a heat wave on the continent is driving excess death here in Ireland, talk to anyone in the industry, the current death rates are way higher than at any point during the pandemic.

Anybody reading this thread can spot who the cranks are....thinking bureaucrats successfully managed the spread of an airbourne virus over a two year period is something we will all laugh at in time!

You are in absolutely no position to be calling anyone a liar, or any pundit a crank given what you believe.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119789177#Comment_119789177

Seriously? Can you even read or is lying just your natural state?

Silentcorner: you still believe that a heat wave on the continent is driving excess death here in Ireland

Raid: Here is the official data source on excess mortality in Europe, which is what I was talking about

Also, I am sure you have some evidence to backup this claim?

talk to anyone in the industry, the current death rates are way higher than at any point during the pandemic.

Here is the official data:

And here is the RIP.ie data.

Where you take into account that there have been over 2,000 covid deaths this year (from cases in at least half the population at a CFR of <0.1%, versus 0.6% CFR pre vaccination and Omicron, which is why the are no more call for restrictions from anyone reasonable), and that the population has increased 6% since 2016, the data is not out of the ordinary. Wait the the final data is published and see where it lands and get back to me then. Or decide that there is a massive unexplained spike and deny reality, your choice?

And seasonal?

Here are the covid deaths in Ireland for 2022. We dont have much testing anymore so is the only reliable metric left.

Running at about 30 deaths per week over the summer which would equate to probable cases of at least 30,000 per week, and may well have been far higher, versus probably 60,000 in the early part of the year. Massive seasonal effect there.

This is what a seasonal virus chart looks like:

When did the world become so full of folks who think continually misrepresenting reality somehow makes them clever?

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119789997#Comment_119789997

Seriously, are you capable of thinking for yourself? Your words, Covid was the cause of 30 deaths per week during the summer months.....absolute nuttery...if you tested everyone who dies for STDs you could probably claim they were taking lives....all your graph is showing us that there was very little excess death over the two years....Do you still believe covid took over 7,000 lives in this country? Can you confirm that for us please? How can someone so smug be so easily lead by bureaucrats at the same time...it's really amazing to see!!! Still wearing a mask ya?

We won't have official death stats in this country for the last 6 months for some time, we may get preliminary data toward the end of the year. How could I produce evidence beyond what I am told by people who work in the industry?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119790142#Comment_119790142

Here is what I actually said:

which is why the are no more calls for restrictions from anyone reasonable

But by all means continue lying and misrepresenting someones position because someone has the temerity to disagree with the boards brains trust..

And as I said, talk to me when you have actual data. Because the data we have doesn't align with your viewpoint

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119790281#Comment_119790281

Can you confirm if you believe Covid took over 7,000 lives in this country please?

Getting back to the original topic, there is now more evidence that the original SARS-COV2 escaped from a lab, so more reason to be concerned about synthesising s new super strength variant!

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.10.18.512756v1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119790285#Comment_119790285

Going to have to try a bit harder to get your gothcha moment!

Excess mortality is at about 50% of reported covid deaths in Ireland since the start of the pandemic. From March 2022 to August 2022 excess morality is about 4,000, reported covid deaths is about 8,000. For the UK Excess mortality is 160k, covid deaths about 200k, Spain: Excess 124k, covid 112k, Sweden excess 11k covid 19k, Germany excess 118k, covid 147k, Belgium, excess 23k, Covid 32k, US exess 1.14million, Covid 1.02million, Romania Excess 116k, covid 65k. In lots of places there was less excess deaths than covid deaths, and in lots more there was more.

No doubt you will tell us why they weren't really covid deaths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119790683#Comment_119790683

Expect the study in the op did not describe a super strength variant, it described the output of a trial with two different versions in mice specifically bred and raised to be very susceptible to enable clearer conclusion to be drawn. Why do this, well you cant ask a mouse about its symptoms and with a mortality rate of 0.6% you would need a massive sample to detect a difference, so you make the lab mice more susceptible to be able to draw relative, not absolute, conclusions on a smaller sample.

Edit to add reference - study completed using lab mice of the same type found 100% mortality with a similar dose of original SARS-CoV-2

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34668775/

We found that intranasal inoculation with higher viral doses (2 × 103 and 2 × 104 PFU) of SARS-CoV-2 caused lethality of all mice and severe damage of various organs, including lung, liver, and kidney

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119790916#Comment_119790916

"Excess mortality is at about 50% of reported deaths in Ireland since the start of the pandemic"!!!! That is what you just said.

That is complete gibberish. It doesn't make any sense. You get very slippery when you are asked a direct question.

Now, stop trying to deflect, because you have accused me of believing in "bizarre theories" (you haven't been able to name one), and please tell us, do you think Covid took over 7,000 lives in this country?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119790971#Comment_119790971

Never even try to answer a question yourself do you? And you have the cheek to talk about "slippery". F*ckin hell!

Official death toll is 8,000. How many were going to die any, we dont know, how many had incidental covid we dont know, how many were missed, we dont know. But on an average day in Ireland 80-90 people die, so on any given day about 0.002% of the population die. For half of deaths to have be caused by incidental infection, you are looking at about 2 incidental deaths per day. To have that rate on any given day throughout the pandemic approx 2.5% of the population would need to be infected on the average day. There were days when there was more than 50 recorded deaths. I will let you do the maths and come back with any conclusions you may have.

Now, unless you are actually going to back with something other than sniping without anything to back it up, kindly **** ***

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791046#Comment_119791046

So you do believe that 8,000 lives were taken by Covid, the official narrative that we are all familiar with, thank you for eventually answering the question.

But we didn't see 8,000 extra deaths did we...we didn't see anywhere near that.

Being rational doesn't mean you can quote facts, being rational means you can understand what facts are relevant.

Why would you believe that 8,000 figure when the facts suggest it is completely inflated.

We didn't see 8,000 extra deaths on top of what is normal, so you are in no position to be accusing anyone of lying, or believing "bizarre theories" or telling anyone to "kindly **** off"...and remember, it was you who posted a sniping post on this thread.

It is important, because if you believe that 8,000 people lost their lives during the pandemic due to Covid, you are much likelier to believe that the two years of severe restrictions didn't have any negative impact on the health of the population, you are likely to believe that the actions of our Government were justified, and you did, you were a constant presence on here, using your particular "tone" belittling anyone who disagreed with you, you are still doing that today!

When, it is clear to many, the seriousness of the pandemic was completely overblown and the negative impact of those severe restrictions are being completely ignored.

*we all know that this virus was a very nasty infection for some, very mild for others, so I don't want to be accused of denying the seriousness of the virus.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791130#Comment_119791130

Kindly follow my previous request if you are not going to engage honestly. You are the person who went after me on this thread and I answered every question asked, in contrast to you. In the real world without the data there is no hard answer to every question. To believe 50% of deaths were incidental would require a suspension of all critical faculties however. You would either have to believe that at any moment a large portion of the population was continuously infected throughout the pandemic, or to believe by random chance a large proportion of deaths just happened to be over represented in the coivd figures.

Data from other countries is also relevant, in general the higher the population, the closer the excess deaths tended to be to actual deaths. This is due to natural variation being higher as a function of all deaths in smaller populations. Its just stats.

Why is there an effort to always boil complex questions down a one word answer? It rarely possible in complex situations.

Back to the thread? Any opinion on the misrepresentation in this thread of mice designed to have high susceptibility to covid having an 80% fatality rate being deliberately conflated with the mortality of the disease without any attempt to understand that detail?

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791317#Comment_119791317

Engage honestly, says the man who accused me of believing in "bizarre theories" and still hasn't named one!!

You really need to work on your ability to interpret data, rubbish in, rubbish out!! The published data from our institutions and health bureaucrats are frequently inaccurate rendering them completely useless to analyse. We included healthy people in our Covid infection figures for instance, completely bonkers stuff!!!

I don't have any opinion on the data in this study, as I have said to you before, gain of function research and Covid are very hot topics and it is very difficult to find trustworthy information. I don't trust health bureaucrats given the last three years, could they take a virus and work on it a lab to improve it's ability to infect and do damage in individuals? At least we know that somebody in a lab is manipulating a Covid virus, we can all agree on that!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791425#Comment_119791425

You have not once provided any data to back up any of your points. Just used polemic when confronted with data. Feel free to refute anything I have said with anything, anything at all. I am certain there is an evidence based argument that could be made. Please try!

I think that answer says it all. "I don't trust the data because it doesn't say what I want and people shouldn't study the virus because reasons"

Bonkers stuff is right

Can a mod update the thread title to "New Boston Virus (lab developed coivd that kills less un-vaccinated, susceptible mice than ancestral SARS-CoV-2 but more than Omicron when injected with a massive dose)"?

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058268675/new-boston-virus-lab-developed-super-covid

It isn't the Chinese, Its the Yanks he's after

But in a more serious light

Down with this sort of thing

Maybe humanity shouldn't be pushing our luck by telling any old lab how to engineer Covid to make it deadlier than the Plague times Ebola

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791733#Comment_119791733

Do you even hear yourself????

You said this..."I think that answer says it all. "I don't trust the data because it doesn't say what I want and people shouldn't study the virus because reasons""....., I explained why I don't trust the data, do you trust data you know to be leaky/inaccurate? What kind of an idiot does?

This is your understanding of data (you posted this a short time ago) "Excess mortality is at about 50% of reported deaths in Ireland since the start of the pandemic"!!!! That is what you said...now this is not a person who has any kind of grasp on numbers or data, you are great at getting your hands on numbers, you don't seem to understand how meaningless most of them are!!

We know the death figures were grossly inflated.

We know the case numbers were inaccurate. We were testing 10,000s people per week, including people who weren't sick.

We know the hospitalization numbers were also inflated. They included people who were infected while they were in hospital, and people who went to hospital for a health issue and tested positive on the way in.

That is what we know, we also know the projections and modelling were off the charts inaccurate more often than not..

So, forgive me if I don't gobble up all the nonsense health bureaucrats/politicians/media provide us without questioning any of it!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791818#Comment_119791818

Still no data. Just polemic and invective.

As I said, Va fa enculo

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119792109#Comment_119792109

You are asking me for data we won't get until next year. When it arrives, I'll break it down into digestible chunks for you, you seem to get overwhelmed easily.

astrofool

Just so I understand what's happening here, on a "super virus" thread.

Silentcorner is arguing about death tolls being inaccurate, has no data and is saying wait till next year.

raind is posting data that we already have around death toll and Silentcorner is trying to scoff at it.

Am I missing something?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119792588#Comment_119792588

Yes, no one has acknowledged the clarification on the study that confirmed it’s not a super virus because that would involve admitting they were incorrect

Silentcorner

That's right Astrofool....that's what's happening!!!