Lads ye need to start advertising for mods

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120130657#Comment_120130657

The aggrieved party. Have you thought about suing for damages in a civil case?

CGI_Livia_Soprano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120130690#Comment_120130690

I haven’t got a clue. I doubt it’s for any entirely innocent reasons though.

It’s also laughable that an administrator can post a bald-faced lie to a user like that defending a moderator’s actions, then turn around and cry foul at anyone who says due process doesn’t exist on boards. It doesn’t exist when it can be dismissed on a whim.

With certain types of posters treating the whole chat forum like a virtual court room I am so glad I got out of modding at the site changeover. Who in all sanity actually wants to deal with posters like that as a hobby. I‘ve no acumen for knitting but would rather start that as a pastime.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120130769#Comment_120130769

What lie?

CGI_Livia_Soprano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120130805#Comment_120130805

I agree with you 100%. They should just delete the DRP forum and stop pretending due process exists here when it clearly does not.

EmmetSpiceland

Have to say that I, personally, always found the “dispute resolution” process to be an excessive mercy given by the site. Poster breaks the rules, gets a warning/sanction and, ideally, moves on.

Some of the “defences” given in that forum are a joke, you have users bleating about bias, being targeted and other such nonsense.

People are complaining about a lack of moderation, or the number of mods, but they also expect mods, and admins, to waste obscene amounts of their time going back and forth with posters, most with abysmal “records”, instead of dealing with the rest of the site.

It’s bad enough they’ve taken up so much of their time getting into “trouble” in the first place. Some users need to take a long, hard, look at themselves before they start whinging about the policing of the site and some, imaginary, bias.

Spear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120130690#Comment_120130690

It wasn't edited in anyway. That's how Vanilla shows the change when it was moved to the archive.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120130895#Comment_120130895

Ah, that's fair enough.

CGI_Livia_Soprano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120130819#Comment_120130819

The lie that that moderator was not ignoring my messages, they suffered from “technical issues.”

The lie that I had been notified when I was banned from the soccer forum (I hadn’t, I found out I couldn’t access the forum when I tried to click on a link to the forum and I was informed only when you told me in the thread I started months later).

The lie that a poster will be listened to if they post civilly without an “attitude.”

The lie that there is a due process procedure for appealing bans on Boards.ie when it can be ignored on a whim by the administrators if they determine the user isn’t worth the effort. Any one of those lies.

Gatling

Stupid question might already have been asked,

But could thread mods be appointed at all rather than someone cover a whole forum or multiple forums cover hundreds of posts per day could a Cat mod look at say one of the threads several hundred to several thousand posts /replies and say right this person has a clean record and decent posting style this person could be nominated to mod a thread , with no other duties bar that particular thread , giving a person mod experience while freeing up Beastly and Ten of Swords in CA .

Apologies other mods spend most of my time in CA so I'm not up to scratch on who else is modding where

Beasty

@CGI_Livia_Soprano

This is not the place to be digging up your personal gripes about the dispute process

Your dispute was dealt with. A decision was reached - that will not be re-opened

Now back on topic

CGI_Livia_Soprano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120130992#Comment_120130992

Circling the wagons, nothing to see here.

This isn’t about my “personal gripe,” I was using my case as an illustration of the pretence of due process in the Dispute Resolution Process. I think you should get rid of that forum altogether and stop pretending that there is any due process. Consider dropping the pretence that boards.ie is anything other than a benevolent dictatorship.

This whole debacle is an illustration of how the boards.ie administration try to silence the aggrieved parties in a dispute rather than deal with actual malevolent actors.

One personal example is when a poster sent me intimidatory PMs a few weeks ago, and Beasty urged me to ignore it.

When I saw that same poster had not been banned or sanctioned in anyway I posted publicly about them PMing me and Beasty took the opportunity to scold me about it. “Civility” and the appearance of same trump all, even at the expense of someone who is being intimidated by bullies.

Beasty

@CGI_Livia_Soprano

Do not post in this thread again

Sweetemotion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120098192#Comment_120098192

Jaysis, the moderator forum seems more impregnable than Fort Knox and Area 51 combined.

You're not the majestic 12

It's an internet discussion forum in Ireland Lads.

Big Bag of Chips

The fact of the matter is moderators are given certain access that posters aren't. They have the ability to ban, shut down threads, issue warnings etc. They have access to administrators to find out if a poster is a rereg of someone else, has previous history etc. As a moderator you are given privileges and information that posters don't have.

So like it or not, consideration has to be given to who is given that background access. I know it has been suggested here to just add a load of moderators and then remove them if it turns out they're no good. That's all well and good, but randomly giving many people privileged access and just crossing fingers and hoping it works out isn't the best idea. Indeed when a poster is considered, their posting background looked into, discussion as to if they'd be a good mod or not and eventually approved it can still turn out to be a bad decision with the moderators "abusing their power" as is a regular complaint here.

Life and society has drastically changed in the past 20 years. There is a general level of hostility, anger, entitlement and bitterness across all of society. Boards.ie is contending with all of these attitudes too. And oftentimes the people who feel all of the above feel entitled to come on to an internet forum and spill it all out. The moderators then have to try decipher what's a valid point and what's just pure bile.

Most often the ones spilling all the hostility, anger, entitlement and bitterness get very offended when asked to tone it down. Being a moderator on Boards.ie is a difficult and thankless job. Anyone on here who does it, does it with the belief that they are helping to keep what was once a fantastic space going. You can't please everyone, all of the time. The vast majority of posters just want to engage in discussion. Have a bit of craic, debate, whatever, as a spot of entertainment while the telly is on in the background. But a sizeable minority want to fight, argue, accuse, be offended and horrified by every day modern society and then accuse the mods of "abusing their powers" if they ask them to tone it down and understand and acknowledge why they are being pulled up on it.

As I always say to posters who vehemently argue about how terrible the site is, or how awful the moderators, or how it's such a hole of a place... Nobody forces anybody to log in. Nobody is forcing anyone to be here. It's a privately run forum with rules. Like any other group or organisation to be a member you are expected to abide by the rules. If you come in to any group and decide that you are going to insist on your own rules then it's likely you are going to be pulled up on it. If you agree you overstepped the mark, and agree to be more aware of your behaviour in future then it's likely everyone just moves on and forgets it. If you insist on being a dick and insisting you're right and everyone else is wrong, you're likely going to be asked to not come back to the group.

It's really not that difficult. And it always seems to only be the people who insist on being difficult are the ones complaining about the "abuse of power".

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120138484#Comment_120138484

How to you distinguish between those "who insist on being difficult" from those who believe they are getting the wrong end of the stick?

We already know and in fact has been acknowledged that previous infractions etc will count towards how you are dealt with in future, so it doesn't take too many "mistakes" before someone is labelled "difficult". At that point you might as well give up because you will simply not get a fair hearing and any attempt to get one results in posts like yours where you basically lump them into the "man shouts at cloud" group.

Its self fulfilling.

And removing alternative/dissenting views is going to make it even quieter around here. An echo chamber of agreement may seem like a great idea to those involved, but it soon turns pretty dull.

Big Bag of Chips

The dispute resolution forum is there for everyone to avail of. Personally, I think my rate of overturning warnings and infractions or bans is about 50/50.. I have overturned probably as many as I have upheld. I have overturned warnings from posters who had "previous" sometimes to the annoyance of the moderators who issued the warning.

Of course previous warnings and infractions have to be considered. If you have caused trouble in a forum and have been asked to amend your posting style, but don't, and cause trouble again then of course previous warnings and discussions need to be brought into it. Otherwise you just have moderators repeating the same warning to the same people who repeatedly ignore it.

It's no secret that warnings and bans are incremental. If you've had a 1 point warning in a forum and come to the mods attention again then you can expect a 2 point warning etc.

For anyone who finds it difficult bringing it back to "don't be a dick" should focus the mind.

Gaspode

There's an assumption by many here that gathering cards infractions etc is because a user holds an 'alternative' or 'dissenting' view (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean).

In my experience in the 19 years I've been on this site people gather cards from rudeness, bigotry, or an inability to make a coherent argument without stooping to name-calling.

Jequ0n

You got to appreciate how the titles of posters defending the status quo keep increasing in rank (if the culmination of titles means anything).

There is no point in quoting rules if, at the end of the day, infractions are based on number of complaints (no matter what) because it confirms the clique mentality claims.

And I personally: I’m usually ok with getting a warning/ infraction if I am given a reason (which Beastie provides much more than other mods who just ban).

Getting a thread or forum ban with no specified reason is just frustrating, particularly if you can see others getting away with the same or worse behaviour.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120140111#Comment_120140111

You dont know if others are "getting away" with things. Warnings and infractions are only visible to mods, Cmods and Admins.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120140121#Comment_120140121

If posts fall foul of the same rule but remain on thread I do consider the posters as getting away with it.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120140121#Comment_120140121

There was definitely a period recently in which warnings and infractions were visible (post migration). It would be much more effective to see these on thread to set the tone on the thread for all posters.

Big Bag of Chips

if, at the end of the day, infractions are based on number of complaints

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Do you think posts are only actioned depending on the number of reports?

Not all reported posts warrant mod action. Not all posts that are actioned are reported.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120140200#Comment_120140200

No. Mods here have frequently admitted that they don’t have the time and bandwidth to check every single post (which is fair enough) so they need to focus on the ones that seem to cause upset, aka the ones that get reported most in a period of time.

Beasty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120140330#Comment_120140330

Just to be clear, I am one of those who relies pretty much on reports given the absolute scale of CA and Coronavirus forums. Indeed I post rarely, particularly in CA, and am unlikely to be reading much of some of the very busy threads. I may act against something that has not been reported, but that is pretty much the exception

There are times when posts reported several times are not deemed worthy of action, and equally plenty of posts reported once where action does follow. Of course if we are on top of reports in a particular forum we may well be acting before some of those who would otherwise report may never get to see the post in question

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120140195#Comment_120140195

I genuinely cannot recall that on this platform, but equally as an Admin I automatically can see any posts that have been warned. I will in virtually all cases delete posts where formal warnings have been issued as otherwise posters will not see that a post has been actioned. The only time I would normally comment in thread is when issuing a threadban.

Back to the main topic of this thread, with new Admins and new CMods in place we are now getting on with trying to identify non-active mods - that is not as simple as looking for mods who have not been online as there are some mods who are not doing any mod work at all, despite being quite active on the site.

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120140195#Comment_120140195

You mean something like the old red/yellow card system?

ShamoBuc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120141973#Comment_120141973

That was a very clear and obvious system and it's a pity that we lost that option.

When issuing a warning, I replace all the text of a post with the message....

Mod Edit

Warning issued.

Posters can at least see that a warning was issued and because the Text is gone, it stops the post being reported again and again.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120142030#Comment_120142030

Is it my imagination, or like a poster above suggested, there was a short period post migration where yellow/red were visible?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120141973#Comment_120141973

No I thought I was seeing an auto alert of the points warning applied but it appears some mods are manually editing the post to do this.

This is hassle for them but in long run I think it will reduce work for them as the thread behaviour will improve.

I will leave it there as dont want to side track this thread.

Beasty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120142138#Comment_120142138

We have never been able to issue yellow or red cards like that on this platform

Perhaps ones issued on vBulletin remained visible for some time, but I've not found any that are currently visible

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120139972#Comment_120139972

While that might have been the case in the past..It's very much not the case now..

You can be as bigoted and xenophobic as you like, call people as may names as you like, if you hold the appropriate viewpoint..

If you dissent at all you're threadbanned as soon as beasty gets around to it..

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120142030#Comment_120142030

Had me spooked for a moment there.. 😅

Is there any ongoing development effort to bring stuff like that back?

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120142544#Comment_120142544

Sounds like a child saying teacher, teacher but he did this and he said that ,

I'm innocent after getting banned.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120142544#Comment_120142544

Thats a load of cobblers but you already know that.

As I said before in this thread the only complaints are coming from those who have been sanctioned in the past.

Gaspode

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120142544#Comment_120142544

What 'appropriate' viewpoint is that? You're spouting nonsense now, you need to make a far more cogent argument than that because it just doesnt hold water.

Do you genuinely believe all the mods, CMods and admins have an exact same viewpoint and that's what is enforced?

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120140179#Comment_120140179

Generally, it is preferred that moderators do not delete posts, unless the contents are particularly egregious. You should not read anything into a particular post remaining on a thread.

We have raised the issue of infractions not being visible to the entire userbase, as I do believe it causes confusion and helps fuel a notion that some people are getting infracted and others aren't. The system on the old site was perfect.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120140413#Comment_120140413

Is it not as simple as messaging all the mods and asking them to respond if they wish to remain active as mods? Give them a week or two to respond.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120145262#Comment_120145262

We have started this process, but there are nearly 400 moderators on this site. It'll take a little bit of time to sort out each category.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120145316#Comment_120145316

Beasty said that CMods are now in place. Ask them to PM all the mods in their category and ask if they are still active. Any that dont respond or respond with "No" are removed as mods. That sounds straightforward and not a long process to me. Maybe I am missing something.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120140330#Comment_120140330

This is potentially a problem.

Not so long ago, a poster was found to be running ten accounts. It would have been easy enough for that poster to target others through multiple reporting of posts, which would draw moderator's attention and divert away from other situations.

Beasty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120140330#Comment_120140330

Can you provide examples? I have repeatedly stated in this forum that all reports in the forums I moderate are reviewed

ZX7R

Have to say I've seen an increase on many forums of mediators taking action.

Have to give credit where credit is due.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120145351#Comment_120145351

Yes, we are doing this. Finding inactive moderators is the easy bit, but removing an inactive mod and leaving a forum mod-less doesn't fix much from a user's point of view. So it's a case of finding inactive mods and finding replacements, and the second bit of it is the slow bit.

Hopefully we'll have some news on the mod front in the next week or so.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120151461#Comment_120151461

Out of curiosity, how long does ti take from post reported to post reviewed, or is that kind of a how-long-is-a-piece-of-string? type question?

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120159043#Comment_120159043

Anywhere from a few minutes to hours. It really depends on when the post is made and who is online at that time. It also depends on the forum, some forums generate a lot more reports than others.

Beasty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120159043#Comment_120159043

I was out of action for 2 days this week with the winter vomiting bug. I dealt with a backlog of 80 reports as soon as I got back online as another mod of CA was also not online at the time

Usually though we will get to them within a day and sometimes within minutes. But that is for CA and Coronavirus forums, I cannot speak for the forums I do not moderate

I’ve been a user of Boards for years, but Christ it has deteriorated to the point where it’s unreadable. It is obvious that the migration to Vanilla had its problems, but now it is a free for all for loons with a pile on mentality encouraged by mods, aided by their inaction, or in some cases complicity. Reasoned discussion is no longer the norm, you have to accept the opinion of the majority or you are pilloried. There is no place for an objective opinion, so unless you guys get new mods to elevate this site, you are in danger of just being an echo chamber for popular opinion, or worse, mob mentality.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120168459#Comment_120168459

Can you point to any examples of where you’ve had to accept the opinion of the majority please?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120168514#Comment_120168514

I bet the irony of that post escapes you.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120168531#Comment_120168531

Is that your tactic for avoiding the question?

Could it be that your problem isn’t so much about having to accept the position of the majority, and more about finding that the majority won’t let you away with making utterly unfounded insinuations against people?