Hole Scratched vs Hole Not Played.

SuburbanHomeboy

Hi all. I’m interested in your views on this scenario which I see happening with a handful of people in my club.

These people scratch a hole but enter it into the computer as a hole not played. This results in a score for strokes taken which is lower than what it should be and gives them a false handicap.

My understanding of how it works is as follows.

Par 4, no shot. Hole not played gives you a 4. (with a shot – 5).

Par 4  no shot. A scratched hole gives you a 6. (with a shot – 7).

So every time you scratch but record it as a hole not played your number of strokes taken reduces by 2 and the differential for your round under WHS is lower than it should be. 

A few weeks ago, one player whose handicap is the same as mine, had a stableford score that was 7 worse than mine, yet his golf Ireland record shows his number of strokes taken as two better than mine. The player played all 18 holes, but recorded “hole not played” against five of them.

What are people’s views here? It might not seem like a big deal as the person is registering a lower score than that actually achieved, and if they are doing it for vanity purposes the end result is a handicap that is lower than their ability, which makes them easier to beat.

We have category prizes in my club and the people I notice doing this are all in class 1, which compared to the other classes has a much smaller number of players and a winning stableford score which is typically more achievable when compared to the other classes. So this could be the motivation. Or it could be just that people think if they pick up then they haven't played the hole.

Anyway, it annoys me, and I’m not sure whether I should just get over myself.

PARlance

Open to correction but I'm almost certain that their "hole not played" / 2 stableford points does not count for their competition score, instead it only counts for handicap purposes. So I don't think they're using it as a tactic to win their category as you suggest.

For me, it's one of the better aspects of the new system as long as it's not abused. I had to walk off after 14 a few weeks ago with injury, had been playing okay before that and entered "did not play" for my final 4 holes, along with the reason on the scorecard. It ended up being a counting round which I was happy with.

I think you should need a very good excuse not to play holes though, it could easily be abused if people want to lock-in a handicap reduction. 8 points for our final four holes may be slightly above average for those on good scores so it could be abused.

I think a bit more awareness needs to be raised on it, I'm sure a lot of people are selecting the wrong option in error. Our club has sent a few reminders on it.

redzerdrog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058267863/hole-scratched-vs-hole-not-played

It is cheating.

I done it my accident once and had to ring club and get it changed when I checked my golf Ireland app later that day

spacecoyote

I wouldn't be surprised, in some cases, for it just to be an accident from lack of education in many cases.

I've definitely seen guys stick a scratch in and then when it pops up the option just randomly tap the screen to move on without even really looking at what they're doing.

I'm sure that there are a few that do abuse it too.

Could probably do with some signage and knowledge sharing in clubs

paulos53

Sometimes the software doesn't help. On our system an X indicates a scratch and leaving the hole blank indicates that it wasn't played. There is no popup.

We had a lot of abandoned rounds on Saturday due to rain. I had a look at a few scores and most players had scratches on their round for the final few holes. This resulted in enough poor scoring in the system for the PCC to be 3 for the day. I doubt the PCC would have been so high if the scores were entered correctly

CFG92

As someone who closes competitions in our club, there are a few players who consistently make this mistake. I'd imagine it's similar in most clubs around the country. Obviously, it adds extra work to the person doing the competition admin. Do all clubs go to the trouble of correcting these mistakes? I'd doubt it.

Then you have guys who might walk in after 9 and record the back 9 as all scratches. This will then go on their GI record as a poor score, when it shouldn't appear on there at all as they haven't played the minimum of 10 holes in an 18 hole round. In my experience, it's entirely down to a lack of awareness of how the two - a scratch vs did not play, effects their scoring differential & ultimately their hc index.

billy3sheets

Yep, it's golfers entering an incorrect score and it can skew both PCC and HI.

The opposite scenario is more common and more of problem though, where holes are not played and scratch is entered.

Software and probably the entry of scores vis a standard keyboard does not help. Only some systems have the popup which asks if you did not play the hole.

Could be an additional check added if last N holes are entered as scratches - "please confirm you had a meltdown and scratched your last 6 holes"

phelimb

I haven't played competition golf for a couple of years but this is an eye opener for me - was not aware of the 'hole not played' option. That is surely open for serious handicap abuse - or am I missing something?

Like, if I'm playing the 18th and hit two OOB off the tee or whatever and just decide to walk off and not finish the hole - to me that's a hole not 'finished' rather than not 'played'. And a hole not finished = a scratch in my book. Or, I always mess up the 17th so I won't bother playing it and put it down as not played...sounds really wrong to me.

There will be exceptional circumstances like @PARlance says but you can't decide what holes to count or not...but again, am I not understanding this?

Golfgraffix

Just a side note that the NP option is not available for 9 hole comps or 9 hole GP. It can only be used for an 18 hole round and as above only after 10 holes played.

Russman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757636#Comment_119757636

Its a funny one this, you wouldn't know what's the "best" outcome. Obviously its not right to enter "played but didn't score" on holes when you walked in, but its arguably not right either that the system gives 2 points per hole when you didn't even play them. If conditions were bad enough, then a PCC is probably the fair outcome for those that did complete the round.

Russman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119756901#Comment_119756901

I think this is definitely the case a lot of the time. I've seen guys just randomly tap the screen to move on. I'd consider myself reasonably up to date with WHS, but had no idea until I read this thread that you got a notional par (?) when you hit the "did not play hole" option. Some better communication from the clubs/union about this would definitely help. Explain it like you would to a 4 year old too, not a link to a website or anything like that, just tell the member why this is the way it works.

paulos53

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119759439#Comment_119759439

That is a fair point. I walked in myself after 10 holes so for handicap purposes the system gave me 15 points for the final 8 holes. It is extremely unlikely that I would have scored as well as that in the wind and rain.

Golfgraffix

It is really only there for emergency situations, like an injury, illness or home emergency.

shouldn’t be used for weather. If the course is deemed unplayable, then that would be a committee action to cancel cards

Russman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119759531#Comment_119759531

It shouldn't be used for weather, you're correct. But with the best will in the world, on a horrendous p1$$ing rain day, the course might be perfectly playable and half or more of the field will come in early. The theory that weather is not a valid reason to come in and everyone who tees it up has to stay out barring, as you say, injury, illness etc., just doesn't play out in reality, no matter what the WHS rule book says.

macslash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119759100#Comment_119759100

Not sure if this is true. Have a friend who scratched 10&11 at the weekend and put down not played by accident. He ended up getting cut instead of shots back. Trying to get it rectified now but surely the system shouldn't allow you enter hole/s not played mid round, with holes played after. It was a genuine mistake by the lad but you can see how it can be abused

Golfgraffix

It will allow you to enter NP but if it was before hole 10 or on a 9 hole card it will not count as a qualifying round.

it would be the main reason why you might see a player with a qualifying score outside of their top 20

gypsy79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119822901#Comment_119822901

That is probably because if you play less that 12 it counts as 9 hole round

But @Golfgraffix know the rules much better better than I