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Ireland Examining Neutrality After Ukraine War

  • 15-10-2022 6:57pm
    Registered Users Posts: 23,507 ✭✭✭✭Strumms

    thats according to Minister For State, Thomas Byrne…

    ’Ireland’… so not the government, citizens, the actual whole Ireland nation apparently. Why is Russia invading a country that is almost 3000 kilometres away from Ireland, a reason for this individual to be making such proclamations ?

    i don’t think if it was put to a referendum that the Irish people would agree…

    Russia invaded the Ukraine on February 24th this year…

    the Ukraine with all that going on, decided to apply for EU membership on February 28th, 4 days later. 😏

    now we have a minister for state, proclaiming that because of an issue 3000 kilometres away, we are to stop being a neutral country.

    Ok that means we would need to spend multiple millions more on our defense. How the gibbering fûck are we to achieve that with the burgeoning imposition of our rapid and extensive population increase, with medical cards, free healthcare social welfare, free housing and free public transport being enabled to these new arrivals free gratis.

    where ohhh where does the cash come from to build the type of defense force to suitably defend a nation like ourselves, buy aircraft, ships, invest in infrastructure etc… as well as defence to join in other conflicts..

    we can’t even build one line of a fûckin metro, but change from a neutral to a non neutral country. Recommended in 2005 and they haven’t even applied for planning permission yet. But ok, let’s not be neutral and go off joining wars, and taking political stances on conflict that doesn’t need to involve us.



    Post edited by Beasty on



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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr

    People syaing getting worked up about NATO who've had **** all to say about Ireland relying totally on the Brits for defence for the last 30 years.

  • NATO membership comes with a commitment to spend minimum 2% of GDP on military spending. Ireland's GDP is incredibly high because we have so many multinationals, Ireland's GDP is about 350 billion so 2% would be 7 billion euro its currently 1 billion. Where are you getting 6 billion more every year?

    We're not defenseless, also do you think Ireland gets attacked and the EU/UK/US don't step in even without us being in NATO?

  • Registered Users Posts: 36,617 ✭✭✭✭Gatling

    It's about bloody time ,

    Langley, Virginia. 6410

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2

    Fact check: the NATO spending targets are just that, spending targets. Only 9 countries in the in the 30 country bloc spend 2% of GDP or more on defence. Prior to the Ukraine War it was only 4 countries (US, UK, Greece because of Turkey, and Estonia because of Russia).

    Luxembourg spends about 0.5% and Iceland spends a grand total of 0% of GDP, and nobody is making them spend a penny more than they want.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,507 ✭✭✭✭Strumms

    The Brits never defended us, for the most part they’ve just caused trouble down the years on this island.

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,098 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump

    Headline says they are examining it.

    Surely it is good practice to reassess any policy after time to time. Even more so after a change in environment.

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,098 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump

    They wouldn't have to roll across Europe. It wouldn't be out of the realms of possibility though to do something on Ireland as an example to other countries of "hey, look what we can do". Not likely, but still not impossible.

  • Registered Users Posts: 48,749 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover

    Who are we afraid of?

  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr

    Our entire defence strategy is a post it note that says "ring the Brits and hope that they answer"

    People who have very pronounced views on NATO are strangely unperturbed by the fact that our defence forces would be hard pressed to hold off the Salvation Army.

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,098 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump

    I wasn't talking about invasion. Just about causing some damage to the country or it's infrastructure. A way of making a symbolic attack on "the West" without triggering an automatic NATO response. That is not to say that there would be no response, just that it wouldn't trigger one the same as if it did the same thing in England, or off the coast of England, for example.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭GalwayMark

    A lot of Eastern European countries are really beginning to resent our neutrality and when the conflict is fully over the gloves will really come off in terms of criticism like not giving Ukraine weapons that aren't needed by us anyhow, assisting Putin's consigliere for laundering their money along with the military bank and thirdly accusing us of moral cowardice and selfishness that in the long run may cause ructions over a policy most tolerated until now due to simple idleness.

    I'd say a part of the unification package from both Washington and Brussels is going to include possible NATO membership, increased defence spending and military training in major army institutes on both sides of the Atlantic.

    Anyone who thinks our military neutrality will survive unification is simply for the birds and quite possibly ignoring trends going forward that will make it impossible to keep doing things as it were before last February's invasion because that world ain't coming back no matter how slim or feasible to carry on in the long run.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭85603

    all bar 4 countries in the UN have stopped playing nice with Russia, calling the annexation illegal. doesn't mean they're all politically aligned against Russia in some larger sense, or militarily siding against Russia. Theres space between neutral and rival. You can remain neutral and still condemn, sanction and take other such punitive/belligerent actions.

    Apparently we've pssed off the Ethiopians no end, doesn't mean we're in a greater rivalry with them.

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,256 ✭✭✭herdquitter

    A friend of mine is very politically involved, he brought up brexit, the new UK Govt., and Ireland having the EU's backing. Yet in the same conversation he talked of the war and said "are we really getting all the truth?", much as to say Ukraine was as much to blame as russia. I gave him some food for thought rather like you mention above. If another member states important interest is keeping russia at arms length, then how are we to expect them to support Ireland as regards brexit, when the UK send's Ukraine so much weapons. Stopped him in his tracks.

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2

    We are definitavely aligned against Russia. There's no point in even entertaining a counter-point. We've picked a side.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl

    It's someone leaving the club thinking. Was surprised how long the UK stayed in the EU TBH they never considered themselves European. I find it odd in Ireland that yes people are very pro EU but also speak of and hold Irish Identity as if it does not conflict. Bogus Neutrality, Wanting all the good stuff but none of the downsides. Irish Gov loves the extra stealth taxes. Water charges well the EU has them. VRT well that's Illegal pretty much in EU context nope were keeping them.

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2

    I do think we owe Eastern EU members a bit more in security measures if we are to be credible. Whether that is through contributions to EU mutual defence arrangements or NATO, I am on the fence about it, but our neutrality is a fudge in the 21st century.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭85603

    grand so, we're unofficially aligned with the west in general against Russia in its annexation. job done.

  • Registered Users Posts: 242 ✭✭lizzyjane

    Would never pass a referendum so wont happen. Although I said the same about the Lisbon treaty and they made us vote on that twice.

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