Ireland Examining Neutrality After Ukraine War

Strumms

thats according to Minister For State, Thomas Byrne…

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2022/1014/1329198-irish-neutrality/

’Ireland’… so not the government, citizens, the actual whole Ireland nation apparently. Why is Russia invading a country that is almost 3000 kilometres away from Ireland, a reason for this individual to be making such proclamations ?

i don’t think if it was put to a referendum that the Irish people would agree…

Russia invaded the Ukraine on February 24th this year…

the Ukraine with all that going on, decided to apply for EU membership on February 28th, 4 days later. 😏

now we have a minister for state, proclaiming that because of an issue 3000 kilometres away, we are to stop being a neutral country.

Ok that means we would need to spend multiple millions more on our defense. How the gibbering fûck are we to achieve that with the burgeoning imposition of our rapid and extensive population increase, with medical cards, free healthcare social welfare, free housing and free public transport being enabled to these new arrivals free gratis.

where ohhh where does the cash come from to build the type of defense force to suitably defend a nation like ourselves, buy aircraft, ships, invest in infrastructure etc… as well as defence to join in other conflicts..

we can’t even build one line of a fûckin metro, but change from a neutral to a non neutral country. Recommended in 2005 and they haven’t even applied for planning permission yet. But ok, let’s not be neutral and go off joining wars, and taking political stances on conflict that doesn’t need to involve us.

Threadbans

85603

thegame983

If FFG can find a way to hand over tax payer funds to weapons manufacturers they'll do it.

Also they were probably told to do it. It's not like they have an opinion of their own.

Silentcorner

What's left in this country that the population has any control over anymore?

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119749065#Comment_119749065

Our need to be the best boys in the class will trump all else!! And the population will be conditioned to cheer it on no doubt!

herdquitter

I would prefer if Ireland were in NATO. It's a defensive alliance. We are pretty much defenseless. It would foster closer links to other NATO member states which would be good for trade and other opportunities.

85603

The bullsht about Russia ever potentially "rolling across Europe" has been debunked.

They're hilariously incapable.

OK. Carry on.

Dyr

People syaing getting worked up about NATO who've had **** all to say about Ireland relying totally on the Brits for defence for the last 30 years.

85603

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119749135#Comment_119749135

defense from who?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119749091#Comment_119749091

NATO membership comes with a commitment to spend minimum 2% of GDP on military spending. Ireland's GDP is incredibly high because we have so many multinationals, Ireland's GDP is about 350 billion so 2% would be 7 billion euro its currently 1 billion. Where are you getting 6 billion more every year?

We're not defenseless, also do you think Ireland gets attacked and the EU/UK/US don't step in even without us being in NATO?

Gatling

It's about bloody time ,

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119749187#Comment_119749187

Fact check: the NATO spending targets are just that, spending targets. Only 9 countries in the in the 30 country bloc spend 2% of GDP or more on defence. Prior to the Ukraine War it was only 4 countries (US, UK, Greece because of Turkey, and Estonia because of Russia).

Luxembourg spends about 0.5% and Iceland spends a grand total of 0% of GDP, and nobody is making them spend a penny more than they want.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119749135#Comment_119749135

The Brits never defended us, for the most part they’ve just caused trouble down the years on this island.

Donald Trump

Headline says they are examining it.

Surely it is good practice to reassess any policy after time to time. Even more so after a change in environment.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119749104#Comment_119749104

They wouldn't have to roll across Europe. It wouldn't be out of the realms of possibility though to do something on Ireland as an example to other countries of "hey, look what we can do". Not likely, but still not impossible.

Galwayguy35

We spend 1 billion in so called overseas aid to corrupt third world countries so TBH I'd prefer if it was used on defence instead.

The army themseves say we need to up the defence spend so I'm going to go with their opinion in this instead of looney lefters like that little bell end Paul Murphy.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119749524#Comment_119749524

If you look at the figures the average spend on defense is around 800 million pa, unless like this year we had to buy 2 aircraft and two naval vessels which brought the spend to just over 1 Billion,

The average of 800 million pa breakdown 400 million goes on wages and pension,and the rest goes on munitions and equipment.

We spend more on average on overseas aid than on defense, that same overseas aid helps fund African countries militaries including those with tanks and fighter jets but we've neither

tayto lover

Who are we afraid of?

herdquitter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119749187#Comment_119749187

Iceland is a NATO member and doesn't even have a standing army so calm the knickers.

We are defenseless. We don't have a naval force even equipped with helicopter landing ability on it's ships never mind sonar or air or submarine defense. We don't have a credible air defense nor primary radar. We couldn't even prevent a cyber attack on the HSE.

Fishermen were to be sent to drive off the russian navy for God's sake.

Relying on the EU in defense matters is a fools errand. One only has to look at the behaviour of Germany and some other European nations to the invasion of Ukraine, do as little as possible for as long as possible. No one is beholden to defend us, that's child like thinking.

In terms of defense, NATO is the only game in town.

85603

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119749476#Comment_119749476

It wasn't said in reference to Ireland.

Ive seen that sht bandied about over the years in reference to continental geopolitics. About how Russia has a bazillion tanks and will roll across the continent, Paris in a week etc. And now its debunked as fck.

Russia couldn't roll over a small hill.

And now Germany is going on a shopping spree. Which hammers home the point. Russian ground forces are done as regards any real western movement on the continent.

As for us, I don't think Russia even could stage an invasion of Ireland, no functioning a/c carrier, EU airspace blocked off entirely Mediterranean up to Scandinavia, UK airspace and sea territory roughly wraps around Ireland from 3 sides, their cold water ports are inoperable during winter. Russian naval infantry is only 12,000 personnel. Impossibly awkward supply lines.

They could bomb/rocket us, but destroying our infrastructure is not really showing the world much in the way of fearsome capabilities. We have TDs who do that already.

We need some defense upgrades, and thats about it. No need to change our politics.

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119749463#Comment_119749463

Our entire defence strategy is a post it note that says "ring the Brits and hope that they answer"

People who have very pronounced views on NATO are strangely unperturbed by the fact that our defence forces would be hard pressed to hold off the Salvation Army.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119749777#Comment_119749777

I wasn't talking about invasion. Just about causing some damage to the country or it's infrastructure. A way of making a symbolic attack on "the West" without triggering an automatic NATO response. That is not to say that there would be no response, just that it wouldn't trigger one the same as if it did the same thing in England, or off the coast of England, for example.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119749777#Comment_119749777

Our politics has already changed. We no longer play nice with Russia and are fully signed-up in imposing onerous EU sanctions on the regime.

Irish political neutrality was always pretty much a myth. This war drops the pretence.

GalwayMark

A lot of Eastern European countries are really beginning to resent our neutrality and when the conflict is fully over the gloves will really come off in terms of criticism like not giving Ukraine weapons that aren't needed by us anyhow, assisting Putin's consigliere for laundering their money along with the military bank and thirdly accusing us of moral cowardice and selfishness that in the long run may cause ructions over a policy most tolerated until now due to simple idleness.

I'd say a part of the unification package from both Washington and Brussels is going to include possible NATO membership, increased defence spending and military training in major army institutes on both sides of the Atlantic.

Anyone who thinks our military neutrality will survive unification is simply for the birds and quite possibly ignoring trends going forward that will make it impossible to keep doing things as it were before last February's invasion because that world ain't coming back no matter how slim or feasible to carry on in the long run.

85603

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119749810#Comment_119749810

all bar 4 countries in the UN have stopped playing nice with Russia, calling the annexation illegal. doesn't mean they're all politically aligned against Russia in some larger sense, or militarily siding against Russia. Theres space between neutral and rival. You can remain neutral and still condemn, sanction and take other such punitive/belligerent actions.

Apparently we've pssed off the Ethiopians no end, doesn't mean we're in a greater rivalry with them.

herdquitter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119749860#Comment_119749860

A friend of mine is very politically involved, he brought up brexit, the new UK Govt., and Ireland having the EU's backing. Yet in the same conversation he talked of the war and said "are we really getting all the truth?", much as to say Ukraine was as much to blame as russia. I gave him some food for thought rather like you mention above. If another member states important interest is keeping russia at arms length, then how are we to expect them to support Ireland as regards brexit, when the UK send's Ukraine so much weapons. Stopped him in his tracks.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119749873#Comment_119749873

We are definitavely aligned against Russia. There's no point in even entertaining a counter-point. We've picked a side.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119750088#Comment_119750088

It's someone leaving the club thinking. Was surprised how long the UK stayed in the EU TBH they never considered themselves European. I find it odd in Ireland that yes people are very pro EU but also speak of and hold Irish Identity as if it does not conflict. Bogus Neutrality, Wanting all the good stuff but none of the downsides. Irish Gov loves the extra stealth taxes. Water charges well the EU has them. VRT well that's Illegal pretty much in EU context nope were keeping them.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119750088#Comment_119750088

I do think we owe Eastern EU members a bit more in security measures if we are to be credible. Whether that is through contributions to EU mutual defence arrangements or NATO, I am on the fence about it, but our neutrality is a fudge in the 21st century.

85603

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119750118#Comment_119750118

grand so, we're unofficially aligned with the west in general against Russia in its annexation. job done.

lizzyjane

Would never pass a referendum so wont happen. Although I said the same about the Lisbon treaty and they made us vote on that twice.

lizzyjane

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119749091#Comment_119749091

Tell the people of Afghanistan that NATO is a defensive alliance.