Have I been ripped off?

test account 123

I just had to fork out €60 to have one front and two rear cables replaced. Nothing more, 3 cables on a Fuji hybrid. I won't name names but they are an upstanding long established LBS in the Templeogue area. I know cost of living has gone up but was I mad paying that cause I feel thoroughly ripped off.

cletus

Was it cable and outer? Assume say 4 quid a piece, if it was both on all 3 cables, that's 24 quid for parts. That leaves €36 labour.

Are the cables on your bike internally routed? That would make a difference to the labour costs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058265522/have-i-been-ripped-off

You're lucky to get anyone to anything for less than €100 these days - even just to look or call out.

CramCycle

I wouldn't say ripped off but definitely over the odds. A lesson to learn how to do it yourself. I stand to be corrected but while I know of one long established bike shop in Templeogue, I don't know of any upstanding ones in my experience, but the long established one would have charged over the odds for years, only get a reasonable price at their sister shop if you get the owner or the mechanic, other related staff/manager would bend you over the counter to help empty your wallet.

Squidgy Black

It’s not cheap, but it’s not outrageous either.

For reference Jimmys in Portmarnock list on their site they charge 30 quid for brake cables replacement and 30 quid for gear cables (add a tenner to both if they’re internal cables).

test account 123

Yeh meant to say all are routed externally. Not a difficult or long job but yes my sentiments driving home were indeed get off yer bumand learnthis for yourself!

byrnem31

Devil's advocate here, I think that's a reasonable price. Particularly with parts, materials, overheads of running a shop etc going through the roof.

monkeyslayer

It seems a little on the expensive side but I don't think you've been ripped off. If it was 50 it wouldn't have surprised me. 3 cables, 2 brakes fixed and gears reindexed I'm guessing? It'd be far cheaper if you learned how to do it yourself.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119692396#Comment_119692396

It's certainly not crazy, and I've certainly heard of worse in South Dublin. I certainly wouldn't be complaining, but it would inspire me to do it myself. My LBS is decent enough and will sell me cable off the reel with a mark up, and it's way cheaper than buying a cable set.

check_six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119693726#Comment_119693726

If you go this route, don't forget the ferrules! (cabley end cap thingys)

iwillhtfu

This reaffirms my thoughts that the idea of running a bike shop and the reality are two very different things. You'd want to be a philanthropist and do it for the love of the job.

€60 is a pittance to be honest for time spent booking in carrying out the work and materials.

As you say though it's a very easy job, so next time you might save yourself €30 depending on the value you put on your time by watching a few youtube videos and doing the work yourself.

Squidgy Black

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119695042#Comment_119695042

I know we’re going a bit off topic now, but I think this is a result of shops for years doing labour for absolutely nothing, and only charging the small enough margins on parts, and relying on bike sales as their main income. Certainly was the case in the LBS near me, you’d rarely see them charge more than 30 or 40 quid for most jobs unless there was a significant costly part needed

magicbastarder

my LBS charges a minimum now of €20 for a job. replacing a spoke, or regreasing a BB (which i had done recently), etc. would fall into the €20 bracket AFAIK

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119695156#Comment_119695156

This is true, we all got used to them lending us a pump for free, selling stuff at cost if they knew you which is lovely but gave us all a false sense of a fair price.

In my mind, cost of parts, plus labour, plus overheads + 50% is my rule of thumb for a fair price.

That could make it anywhere between 40 and 60,

MyDarkArts

Seems on the high side to me. I replaced one of my brake cables recently and it was about as easy and straight-forward a job as I could've hoped. Unless the mechanic encountered a particular difficulty I think €20 per cable seems expensive.

cletus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119698735#Comment_119698735

It's definitely a job to do yourself, it's easy to do, needs minimal tools, and doesn't take too long. However, if you bring your bike to a shop to have work done, you have to expect higher costs. Bike mechanics arent paid individually for each job carried out, they're on an hourly rate, plus the shop owner has to cover costs such as lighting, heating, local council rates, insurance, plus take a wage themselves.

magicbastarder

for some people, they mightn't have the space or the tools - or the inclination. if you're replacing cables every few years, it might be easier to just drop it into the shop and let them do it. you'd need a decent cable cutter too, which most people wouldn't already have in their toolbox.

redlough

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119686387#Comment_119686387

With the cost of electricity, labour, rent etc, all of those you have to take into consideration. I don't see why you would think you are been ripped off?

As someone said that is about 36 euro for labour/electricity/rent. Not much when you think about it

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119698775#Comment_119698775

It's definitely a job to do yourself, it's easy to do, needs minimal tools, and doesn't take too long. 

When I first replaced the brake and gear cables on my Orbea (with internal routing), it was an absolute pain. Where the gear cable goes into the downtube allows slack or goes taut when you turn the bars (steering) so I ended up with issues changing gear on my rear derailleur which took me ages get working without issues.

I initially thought I was doing something wrong but I had to replace the rear derailleur about a year later and decided to just give it to my LBS. They had similar issues indexing the new RD because of the cable routing.

The issue was because the plastic routing part that clips into the downtube allows some movement. Because of this, when you turned left (I think), it provided some looseneing of the cable which affected the tension on the RD.

It's ok now (different part) but I wouldn't assume that everything that should be easy, is always easy.

cletus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119699095#Comment_119699095

I raised the prospect of internal cabling in my first post. OP confirmed cables are routed externally

hesker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119699095#Comment_119699095

OT but sounds like your outer cable housing just wasn’t long enough.

fatbhoy

How long would this take the mechanic? About 15 minutes all in.

How much are three cables to them? Less than €4.

How much are overheads for that 15 minutes or so? Probably about €5 or less, I don't know.

So assuming the cost to the employer of the mechanic's wages is €25/h, we're talking total cost to the business of around €15 all in, but probably less.

They charged the customer €60.

cletus

I don't know about 3 cables and outers being €4 all in. 66c each?

magicbastarder

How much are three cables to them? Less than €4.

going reductio ad absurdum; if i go to my bike shop and ask them to put a pair of ksyrium XL pro magic carbon extra round wheels on my bike, they should also only charge what the wheels cost *to them* as part of the cost?

they are selling you the cables as part of the service; it's not unreasonable for them to charge retail prices for the cables, is it not?

Macy0161

I'm not here to defend a LBS that I've no dealings with, but you're also paying for front of house staff to take the bike in/ give back as well as a (hopefully) skilled mechanic.

At the previous job, the LBS had the basic service prices on the door, but I can't recall. So it seems on the expensive side, not ridiculous for me.

When it was a convenient, I valued the LBS as my time more valuable than the costs of getting a professional to do the job. They're no longer convenient, so my travel time comes into the equation and has changed my sums somewhat.

fatbhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119699682#Comment_119699682

I was illustrating the cost to them versus the price charged, and to let people make their own conclusions as to whether the guy got good value or not. Plus, the OP said cable, not cable plus outers.

cletus

I said cables and outers when I tried to break down the cost, and the OP didn't say only cables, so I'm presuming both.

The cost to the shop makes no difference, as the consumer can't get them at that price anyway, so the issue would be whether the Labour charged was too high. Most here would seem to suggest a little high, but not a rip off. I personally have no idea, I've never paid someone to work on a bike for me

07Lapierre

OP are you happy with the repair carried out? are the cables fitted and the Brakes/gears working correctly?

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119699556#Comment_119699556

Wages: 7.50

Cables: 10

Overheads (if rented in South Dublin): could easily be 10

Cost of holding stock: 2.50

So 30euro, it's a business so I'd want to be making another 15 on that.

So 45 minimum in South Dublin, just south of 40 if you own the place outright or are in a cheaper part of the country to live.

This is based on numbers that are going up all the time and probably a month out of date.

Edit: I should say that the overheads I have used maybe way under as I haven't taken into account staff onboarding, training, and so on.

dahat

I think others will agree here but the more business you put through the LBS the more economical it gets over time I find. I put a lot through my LBS at least where possible for these reasons.

Also I’m mechanically stupid with alot of finer bike repairs so I need to really!

CantGetNoSleep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119701171#Comment_119701171

I have a set of mudguards that I'm about to try fit for the first time and this thread has me wondering if I should just have splashed out extra to have the LBS fit them

Seth Brundle

What kind are they? Most mudguards are easy enough to fit.

hans aus dtschl

I have never worked in a bike shop. I do all my own repairs. I think it's a fair price. But maybe they could have told you up-front and let you decide for yourself before beginning work.

Because: their hours, tools and overheads cost money, they're obviously busy, and people won't do the repair/replace work themselves. So the bike shop get to name the price. It's not really about how much it costs them to do the work, it's about how much it costs potential customers to do the work themselves.

I know that by my reasoning, if they charge a hundred quid it's a fair price, but that's how it goes. It's a balance between how much they need to draw in new/repeat custom and how much they need to stay above break-even. I don't begrudge them profit and a half hour of many people's time is more than 30 quid. If their customers all have the time, space, tooling and ability to do the work themselves, then the bike shop will either need to drop price or stop doing that type of work altogether.

A lot of people working in tech industries are able to earn ridiculous sums of money simply because "nobody else can do it, and someone needs it done".

CramCycle

That is one thing I didn't like, any bike shop I've ever been too gave me a rough price before work started. I won't hide my dislike of the bike shop I presume it is but other than not naming the price first, there is nowt wrong with it. Although, not naming the price first is a big enough no no in any business.

CantGetNoSleep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119701512#Comment_119701512

Yes definitely, they are SKS Bluemels which are not the worst to fit, but I know it will be an hour or two of faffing around to get them in the right position etc & this thread reminded me that I maybe don't have the skill or patience for some jobs where I might be better off giving someone 50€ to do it for me

07Lapierre

would you pay €60? (Seems to be the going rate! :) )

Dowee

In defense of this LBS, I live locally and have used them for years for all sorts of things. I do a lot of my own repairs but have bought a lot of parts there (always for reasonable prices), they have often ordered stuff specifcally for me. I have also had numerous repairs done and even a wheel built from two older (damaged in different ways) wheels and I was often surprised at how little I was charged.

Some of the staff are better than others but they will always defer to one of the mechanics if there is something specific you need an answer on.

The only exception to the above was during the crazy bike shops days during covid when there was lengthy delays and the service wasn't as good, but I would give them a pass on that.

CramCycle

I'll do it for €59.99

monkeyslayer

You pay for the know how. Its like paying a guy in halfords a tenner or more to replace your cars front headlight bulb. It's probably the easiest job to do in car repairs but probably 99% of the worlds car drivers believe any repair that involves even seeing the engine is far beyond their capabilities.

test account 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119693675#Comment_119693675

Nope,

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711562#Comment_119711562

Did you ask for an estimate at the outset?

test account 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119699556#Comment_119699556

I think this post is where I was coming from when I started this thread. In fairness most comments on here are very true, yes they're a business and have overheads etc. I understand that. And maybe they've set a minimum price to make jobs viable. However, I sill feel the price for the time taken, labour and parts is on the opportunistic side. And I'm sorry to say its turned me off returning and repeat business likely won't happen. And thats the point unfortunately for the shop is I likely won't return.

The flip side is, I'll learn a new skill 🙂

magicbastarder

Unless the mechanic is working flat out (and to be fair, most bike shops are busy with this sort of work) it costs more than 15 minutes pay to get 15 minutes work done. the busy time has to pay for the quiet time.

if the mechanic owns the shop, they clearly won't be able to work flat out. if the mechanic is employed in the shop, you have to factor in income for the mechanic and profit/income for the owner.

that said, i thought 60 was on the high side.

at1withmyself

It's very hard to determine a price without seeing the bike and knowing how straight forward or complex the job was. I worked in a shop and it would take longer then 15 minutes to do 3 cables properly and in some cases close to an hour. Maybe brake blocks, calipers, derailleurs had adjustments or threads were stripped / seized.

Do you know what type of cables were used as they can range from a few euro to 50+ euro a set. A decent set if Shimano cables is about 15 euro.

Without more details people are just speculating. Most shops online have a price list available and it can be 25 per cable listed which comes to 75 for 3 so 60 is no not far off that. Don't be afraid to go back and talk to them and query the price.

It's great your looking into doing it yourself from now on as you'll also learn how long the process can take and save some money.

fatbhoy

Fact is, if your hobby is MTBing or road, learning to do [most of] your own maintenance will save you a lot of money, and is pretty much an essential skill to have unless you're loaded.

JMcL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711180#Comment_119711180

In fairness, some cars over the past 10-15 years have been a nightmare to change headlamp bulbs. We used to have a Renault Scenic and you look under the bonnet and think "Wow, how did they manage to fit a 2l engine in there?" You find out the first time you try to change a bulb that it's because they've used up every fecking cubic cm of the space. I never managed it, and the young lad (with the smallest hands) at our local garage used to develop something akin to PTSD every time we'd ask him to do it. That said, the Focus I'm driving at the minute is much more serviceable. Now back to regular programming after that brief detour to the motoring board :-)

Macy0161

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119714184#Comment_119714184

If you have the time. The time to do maintenance is often the time I have to ride my bike, which I value more!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711180#Comment_119711180

While I wouldn't pay halfords, and can do it (on some cars I've come out bleeding because of the tight space), they never come out properly aligned. Car was just in for the service a few weeks after me replacing both, and only with them properly aligned I can see what a crap job I did!

monkeyslayer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119733413#Comment_119733413

True, tho was more to illustrate the point. Someone who has never repaired a bike before might struggle with replacing brakes and a gear cable to the point where 40 euros worth of labour might actually seem like a deal. It's the know how and experience you're paying for as well as the parts and time.

ballyharpat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119699556#Comment_119699556

My LBS would like to buy cable and housing from your supplier, thanks, plus if you could do his stock take and ordering that would be great. While youre at it, when youve 15 minutes, change 3 cables/housing/endcaps. Oh, and while youre at it, go ahead and take the bike in from the customer, that only takes 5-10 minutes, ring him to tell him it's ready, give him back the bike and take payment. He has insurance as well, and plenty of other expenses-his tools re not free etc.

Why is it ok to give a plumber e70 per hour, but a bike mechanic can't get e25 for an hour work-they generally give a look over the bike as well and may notice some other issues, also, if its a double ring on front, they probably checked/adjusted bot mechs.