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Poor performance review and negative reference

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,992 ✭✭✭skallywag


    Someone with half a brain will see through your tactics in about thirty seconds.

    You sound like the ideal employee.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,604 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Commit fraud in other words. That's some advice to be giving. I always followed up on references.



  • Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭cezanne


    I got a very good job by setting up my reference its called controlling the situation did good interview and then gave the references and had told them exactly what to say . i got the job and was well up to the task however my previous peevish manager didnt get the chance to shaft me and he never understood why ...... call it what you like it worked and i worked again regardless of a nasty self serving manager. Some people are naturally servile and obey every thing within an inch of their lives and some dont. So keep your judgements to yourselves and be good servile slaves you will still get the same thanks.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,203 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    And you have no idea if you got away it or not. Just because they did not say anything, does not mean they don't know. You would not be the first employee that was tolerated while needed and the lie can always be used to kick them out when no longer needed. You'll just never know unless you become superfluous to needs, so next time you look at your servile colleagues, remember you are the one masquerade as the good little employee not them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭cezanne



    Reality the modern world have a look and realise we are all in a race to nowhere but death & taxes and some futile consumerism in the middle.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,604 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    You need to work less and get out more. That's a sad and misguided opinion on life. There's huge fun, love, spectacle, wonder and enjoyment to be had.



  • Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭cezanne


    there is and you are correct so why devote yourself to a job you hate with nasty people who sabotage your next mobile move? Merely i am saying a few whites lies can move you to a better place and i get the self righteous & the pointy finger from the sad **** who identify themselves by job and not their own reality and the fun there is to be had in life. Bo ulster yourself, build yourself up and use whatever it takes to get where you want to be and dont allow stagnant nasty small minded middle managers who are locked in a nowhere to give you a bad reference! Take your power and control your narrative, thats my message, dont give any one person any power over your life.



  • Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭cezanne


    I did and when i gave my notice they offered me more money to stay so keep your self righteous opinion to yourself, my message is clear dont allow stagnant managers to sabotage your movement up, thats what they do cos they are stuck neither top not bottom no mans land. Middle managers destroy morale and the work place ask almost any work colleague..



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,604 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Who says most people have a job they hate and can't get where they want to be without fraud? We don't all just identify with our jobs. We also don't all have a complex with regards to middle managers. You seem to be the one letting your perception of managers rule your thinking and enjoyment of life.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,992 ✭✭✭skallywag




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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,456 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Yes they will, that's why my husband is so careful he has seen what happened to someone who gave a verbal reference that did not make the distinction between a person and a professional reference. That is why it has become protocol for all professional references to go through HR.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,992 ✭✭✭skallywag


    I agree that any official / company endorsed reference can only come through HR. That said, such references are generally useless when it comes to gaining any real insight into what this new potential employee is going to be like.

    Perhaps it is field dependent, but in my experience it is very common to ask any promising candidate can they provide the contact of someone who they reported into in the past, and is it ok if I speak to this person. As far as I can recall myself, nobody has ever not obliged. I guess it may be getting less common these days as people get more and more afraid of saying anything, due to possible blowback. Still though, when I myself get such a call I frankly see it is a professional courtesy to someone who I have worked with in the past. As I mentioned previously, the vast majority of the time it's a positive message that I am providing. Perhaps I have been just lucky, but the bulk of those who I have worked with in my professional life have been decent people who would add benefit to any organisation, and if I can help someone out by giving my opinion that I think that is a great thing.

    Once you get into the swing of it you will also notice that you do not actually have to say very much at all in order to bring the point across. You will usually very quickly after the call begins be able see what direction it is going in. For sure such discussions are also usually done in a somewhat discreet manner. Quite often the contact will give you a private number and ask you to call them out of office hours. It is also very common to open with something along the lines of 'well this is just my own opinion, and nothing else, etc.'.

    So, in conclusion, I do not think that someone looking for a new position should get into the mindset that having someone who can vouch for you is no longer required these days. I do hear this more and more, but I can tell you that it is certainly not the case universally.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,939 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    References are either generic ones from hr that are useless. Or done by someones friend in the company.

    I don't think I've ever seen a bad one, or given a bad one.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,203 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Right, so you ARE there because they need you and as soon as they don't you'll be on your way. And the only one being self righteous is good self.



  • Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭cezanne


    Can you give me next weeks lotteries numbers as you appear to have a gift of clairvoyant and my future. My future is just like eveyone elses when the company goes to the wall so do the emp[loyess whether they had good references, told the truth, licked the right ass in the end its the same journey all go down the same toilet with statute redundancy. Heres a good movie to watch with Jack Nicholson called About Schimt, it takes a thoughtful look at the value work loyalty.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,768 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    I work for the HSE. They require a reference from your current/last manager. They will speak to them and have them fill in a form.

    I wouldn't worry too much. Companies are too clever to provide a bad reference nowadays.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I find references obsolete and just another bureaucratic problem in the hiring process.

    The applicant has degrees or certificates showing his/her professional qualification. And then there is a probationary period. Both should be enough in my opinion.

    And yes, there are always reasons for moving on, better pay, a toxic environment and idiot boss, anything. All these reasons would only make lamentable reading in a reference, the kind nobody wants to give anyway, fearing legal issues and creative solicitors.



  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Amzie


    Can you get someone else in the company to give a reference?



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