Irish Under-20's 2023

Dubinusa

Very disappointing result for us. We were headless. England did have a better pack, imo. That could be very costly. England's pack will murder almost evert other.

Tigerandahalf

Are any other games on virgin?

The broadcasting of this is poor.

Nothing on the iplayer it seems.

johnh6767

Totally agree! I always stay away from this forum during the match as I think it’s less constructive than the usual lads who are there to give thoughtful comments with the benefit of hindsight or foresight before & after. That English team is gigantic. Our lads did themselves incredibly proud. To a man, they stood up and put their bodies on the line for each other and the Irish jersey. Loads of character when they could have let the hair down, Gunne 9 MOTM a game changer , Both McCarthys in front row & George H, Osborne off the charts, Cooney a defensive genius, McErlean & Prendergast Great irrespective of the missed kicks which was uncharacteristic. Roll on Aussie game

mun1

Thought England had the better of us especially in the second half , their shape in attack looked sharper , our scramble defence had to be good and it was .

prendergast kicking off the tee game was poor but easily fixed . Good first up defence , much like sexton.

our defensive line speed evaporated in the last 10 mins , and got worse after the red card .

3 points is better than none and we will get more cohesive as the rounds progress .

hopefully no injuries for the oz game , other than the red .

PS watched it in a Tenerife bar surround by English , who had only good things to say about Irish rugby and the way it’s run .

they weren't optimistic about this game

Shehal

If Ireland win their remaining games they will almost certainly qualify as you'd expect 2 wins and a draw be enough to ensure we are the best runner up if not pool winner.

Shehal

From seeing the Aussies in the Fiji match I think if Ireland get back to anything close to the best they showed in the u20 6N they should have too much. Wont be easy but I don't think they are better than England anyway.

Shehal

Georgia giving SA a great game. South Africa 20-15 Georgia with a conversion to come.

Missed SA 20-15 GEO.

Shehal

Georgia get a penalty and its SA 20 Georgia 18 with 16 minutes to go and SA have someone in the bin for 10 mins!

Shehal

Finishes 33-23.

FrannoFan

Nothing has really changed with the draw today.

We pretty much always had to beat oz to progress to semis and that still stands.

I'd expect France to do nz in that other pool.

SA probably top their pool

theVersatile

A marked paucity of subs again in this afternoon's game. Really bad form for what's meant to be a development age group.

Only five (Morris, Barrett, Gleeson, Nicholson and Irvine) used out of the eight subs.

Dubinusa

Once Hadden went off the scrum was under pressure. Cooney will probably be cited. I've rewatched it and I think we left a win out there.

Chessum has got to be around 6ft 10in. He's a very good player for his age.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120761232#Comment_120761232

Even if he isnt cited I cant see Cooney recovering in time for the Australia game anyway.

ulsteru20s

Just got a chance to watch the game, its on youtube in NA which is awesome.

Had some general thoughts as I watched.

The smart ball technology will be very interesting if it is integrated into the senior game.

The England 8 is a pretty high end player. Absolutely leaps off the screen. England looked a lot better than in six nations which does make sense. They have less time to train together and less cohesion than the ireland team for 6 nations. Their tighthead is also a monster. A part of me watching this thought that if i could put all these guys in the irish system, they would be a better team. The loosehead was also great in the loose but needs to work on scrummaging. They were more loose than ireland but i dunno, maybe more talented. Again, absolutely loved their props. The 12 also was very tricky and fast.

Paddy McCarthy is visibly bigger since 6 nations. It still seems like he just too small to be a high high end THP especially compared to some of the best recent ones at this age group.

Osborne is an absolute rolls royce. Wouldn’t be surprised if he ended up the best player from this team. I was way wrong on his brother so this might be an overreaction lol.

Quinn didn’t have 8 on his back but he had way more tight carries with gleeson not in the starting team. Just another indication that numbers on the back mean nothing. This BR was basically 6, 6, 8 in true role fit for these players. Possibly that could have led to some breakdown problems, but depends on roles and im not sure how that is assigned compared to the senior team.

Not worried at all about Prendergast having one bad kicking day. He has the size and the want to be a very good defensive 10. He also is a very crisp good passer. I’m still not convinced he is or will be a real threat with ball in hand. However, that’s not really a requirement in leinster or ireland’s system and that is very unlikely to change with Nienbar. So, does that really matter? I’d say no. Crowley is closer to the archetype i like in a 10 but you don’t actually have to be that well rounded to be elite.

Gunne was really good. Deserved MOTM.

O Connell looks very springy in the lineout. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him and COT play for ireland together at some point.

The scrum looked a lot worse with Hadden off. I guess his scrummaging rep is deserved. Also, Irvine is a big big dude.

Gleeson might have been injured in build up but he came on too late. Quinn going off made sense as he went through a ton of work.

Depending on how Australia match up, I’d consider playing Gleeson over Mangan from the start or putting Mangan back at 4.

Cooney will be a massive loss vs australia. I assume he is suspended for that one.

Finally, ten points up with 15 mins left, we had used three subs… one enforced.

It looks like Nicholson and Barrett came on at 73 and 70/71. And that’s it. This is a DEVELOPMENT competition. Its an absolute joke that at least the 2 and the 10 don’t get replaced. You are supposed to be developing pro players who get exposed to games where they have to finish. McCarthy looked beat to me at the end. It’s pretty unusual even in senior rugby for hookers to play 80 minutes. Prendergast had a pretty average game for him, he also could have come off around 65. Paddy McCarthy also needed to be off earlier.

I think Murphy does a good job but i hated all his whining this week before the tourney, and i hate this sub policy. I also think it hurt our chances of winning frankly. We also play australia in 5 days. We need some of these guys to turn it around in 5 days after playing almost the whole game or the whole game.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120761330#Comment_120761330

I don't how you could watch that game and get the impression England had better players or were more talented.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120761845#Comment_120761845

Really?

We look super well drilled but i thought England had 5/6 guys who looked pretty high potential. Both props for sure, number 8, 12 and 13.

Especially the tighthead prop, guys that big who are that mobile are quite rare.

I wouldn’t say for sure more talented but closer than i thought in 6 nations.

Edit: holy crap he’s 18. That’s insane.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120761871#Comment_120761871

Did we, if anything England looked well drilled whereas we looked like a bunch of headless chickens. Maybe it's closer but it's hard to tell for sure considering how far off their best Ireland were for most of the game.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120761929#Comment_120761929

I don’t think you can be as efficient as we seem to be and not be well drilled. We also realistically would have won this comfortably if Prendergast was on his usual form.

That’s all different from potential though, and england had a good few guys who stood out.

Dubinusa

It's got to absolutely suck to get pummeled in the scrum. But, that's a learning experience for the lads. Massive difference from Hadden to Morris. Both McCarthys played to long. They're going to be hard pressed to put in that kind of shift next week. I thought our back row was good. Some mistakes and Mangan was up and down. Mangan can get up in level though and I would expect him to.

For me, Gleeson must start! Put McNabney at 6, Mangan at 7?

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762029#Comment_120762029

You have to play Quinn, he was immense today.

Play Mangan at 4 or if Australia have a good lineout, play EOC and mangan as an impact sub.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120761992#Comment_120761992

I would question our efficiency, some aspects we were but plenty of aspects we were well short. Rugby is a simple game and its easier to standout in a team that is winning the physical battle, the fact they should have lost comfortably despite this says it all. The difference is Ireland dont need to win the physical battle to win a match whereas England do, that's the difference between a talented side and a not so talented side ( I dont consider being a big bastard smashed smaller player being talented tbh).

johnh6767

Rewatched. Cooney a big loss but the lads will treat Thursday like a cup final, Prendergast will I feel have a phenomenal game as outside of his kicking he was very strong. Defence & attack. These guys are world class, they improved with every game in the 6N and will do so again. They have the depth in the squad to fill the inevitable gaps from a RWC journey, par for the course.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120760237#Comment_120760237

English rugby fans are generally decent. Would be more than happy sitting down with them talking rugby.

johnh6767

I also think sitting in joint 2nd with 3 points is a pretty good place to be, arguably the same as being top as you feel that to come through the group you need to beat Australia in either scenario, and this close tie will fire them up for Thursday. They have real character, look at how they dug deep with 14 men, and down on the score board.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762210#Comment_120762210

We seem to convert alot of 22 trips into tries. Isn’t that what efficiency means?

We have different definitions of talent i think. A massive, physical and mobile THP who is only 18 more than holding his own vs older guys is basically the definition of ‘talented’ when it comes to rugby for me when talking about young players. What you are talking about would be what i would call skills.

Maybe I should use a different word but i can’t think of one.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762961#Comment_120762961

Using basically our first choice team almost entirely and not getting the win with a short break to australia isn’t a good place to be.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120763004#Comment_120763004

Yeah in the 22 attack wise I thought we were brilliant, it was area's like the breakdown that was a big concern as it led to many players being drawn in and creating space for England to exploit. When it comes to talent its impossible to judge based on one game, all these players were good enough to play for a major rugby nation so they must have something about them, what differentiates the elite from the just very good is consistency and based on the 6N combined with yesterday I think its obvious who has the more talented group of players. I think you made a previous point about the English players would be better in our system which I completely disagree on as they don't have the skill set or initiative to do what Ireland do so well. The big difference like I said earlier is Ireland can find many ways to win a game whereas if you match England physically what else do they have?

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762961#Comment_120762961

If we win our next 2 games we are almost certain to qualify as at worst the best runner up.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120763147#Comment_120763147

How do you think our players developed their skillset. Playing in the irish system all the way down and having more time together seems to develop a better skillset.

The difference between elite and very good can be consistency but its also often physical talent. Also, you can teach players skills but you can’t teach size.

We just have opposite views on this. My take on the highest potential players at this age group isn’t the same as who is the most polished or who has the better team.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762041#Comment_120762041

Quinn could be an impact off the bench.