Asteroid and Nasa spacecraft

bad2thebone

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-63006717

How fast does an asteroid go, and how slow is the NASA spacecraft ?

I reckon that the astroid goes on average 20km plus per second.

I'm trying to do the maths and figure out how the man made space craft is going to hit something at that speed and hopefully knock knock it off course.

Or will they hit it at all, surly they are looking for a needle in a haystack.

Gregor Samsa

I'm trying to do the maths and figure out how the man made space craft is going to hit something at that speed and hopefully knock knock it off course.

Throw your equations up here, with an X for the speed of the asteroid and Y for the speed of the spacecraft, and we'll take a gander. They're clearly the only two bits you're missing, so you did the right thing in coming to After Hours to fill them in for this literal, real-world example of rocket science. I'm actually surprised NASA, Space X, the ESA and those other lads in China don't come here more often looking for our advice on these matters.

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058264929/asteroid-and-nasa-spacecraft

Well look I think you've covered all bases apart from the math, which isnt that important to this discussion.

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665667#Comment_119665667

I don't know of any space craft that can be strong enough to offset the trajectory of said asteroid. At the speed of the asteroid,it would obliterate anything sent to change the direction.

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665841#Comment_119665841

Fortunately NASA isn't hindered by your lack of knowledge on these matters.

5uspect

Here's NASA's workings, can you show yours?

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Martin-Ozimek/publication/313888405_NASA_Double_Asteroid_Redirection_Test_DART_Low-Thrust_Trajectory_Concept/links/58adae14aca2725b540dd46f/NASA-Double-Asteroid-Redirection-Test-DART-Low-Thrust-Trajectory-Concept.pdf

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20170001428/downloads/20170001428.pdf

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665859#Comment_119665859

I just find it fascinating.

SEPT 23 1989

whatever is inside that asteroid will awaken and kill us all

bad2thebone

It's an egg and they're trying to stop it before it hatches into a fire breathing griffin lol

bad2thebone

Found it

https://youtu.be/OrrTJHZNolg

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666053#Comment_119666053

So now you have the speed of the NASA space craft post up your workings and someone will check them for you.

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666094#Comment_119666094

I didn't realize that the asteroid was so close. I thought it was way out. I was posting metaphorically rather than saying that I have the calculations.

My mistake.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666421#Comment_119666421

you know how some people use the phrase "rocket science" to describe something that is difficult? well rocket science isn't terribly difficult. It is rocket engineering that is difficult.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666441#Comment_119666441

Back in the day Rocket Science was difficult because there were so many unknowns (no one knew aluminium oxide wasn't a gas and thus useless as a propellent) and because there were no computers so LOTS of calculus.

Nowadays rocket engineering is only as difficult as you make it. If your priority is the mission just use flight proven kit. If your priority is to milk the customer then go for a new launcher or take the low risk approach of modifying an existing one.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665841#Comment_119665841

At 3Km/s any object has the same energy density as TNT. This will hit at 6Km/s so the energy will be four time's it's mass as TNT.

They could transfer twice as much momentum if the object could bounce back, but that would require a 12Km/s change in velocity over a very short distance. Instead there will be a crater.

The target is orbiting a larger asteroid. So the orbit will be changed slightly and that's very easy to measure using a stopwatch.

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666611#Comment_119666611

So they'll figure out how far out they push the asteroids orbit. And then it'll tell them if it's going to work on a bigger scale.

I'm very much a lay person where these experimental probabilities are concerned.

Thanks

AllForIt

In these troubled times with the cost of living crisis and the Ukraine war it is reassuring to know that someone is tackling the problem of the possibility of civilization being wiped out by an asteroid. Just takes away that edge.

buried

Smashing a missile into an asteroid isn't a very good idea. You could end up turning one asteroid into possibly hundreds of asteroids. Then you'll be sending up rockets all night.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667607#Comment_119667607

2 things. This craft won't have the energy to smash the asteroid into hundreds of asteroids. It is nowhere near us nor on a trajectory that goes near us so even if it did happen there would be no repercussions for us.

CGI_Livia_Soprano

This reminds me of that film “Armageddon,” and it’s pornographic parody “Deep Impact.”

buried

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667628#Comment_119667628

I wouldn't take the risk of smashing anything into it myself. If its nowhere near a trajectory that effects us, a better idea would be to send up some rovers that could paint the thing, change the trajectory by altering the colour of the object, let the Sun do the rest. If that doesn't work, then let loose the missiles.

Montage of Feck

Giving everything that's gone on in recent times that asteroid is actually on a collision course for earth, but they don't want to cause mass panic so are passing it off as a test.

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667650#Comment_119667650

Or the asteroid is carrying COVID23?

buried

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667650#Comment_119667650

That is a very plausible take. No wonder Jeff Bezos and the boys are so determined to get the hell out of here.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666441#Comment_119666441

I always like the "solar system highway" that we have, i.e. we always have the optimum route to take from object A to B and also know when to leave to reduce travel time.

But yes, travel fast enough and you can move (or destroy) pretty much anything you hit in a measurable way:

Relativistic Baseball (xkcd.com)

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667643#Comment_119667643

good job you're not in charge of NASA. It is a good test of the real world challenges that may face us in the future. Much better to practice now on something that wont present a danger if we get it wrong.

buried

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119668142#Comment_119668142

Good job you're not in charge of a sense of humour man, or maybe it isn't judging the state of things in this forum lately

Quantum Erasure

What happens if it has no noticable effect?

dxhound2005

No one will notice.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119668182#Comment_119668182

Realistically, it would mean that the asteroid is made up of denser materials than we expected (provided the collision goes to plan) and that any future asteroid redirect missions would need to be adjusted accordingly (if even possible with our currently technology levels, i.e. ability to get lots of mass into space, sped up and directed at another object).

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666684#Comment_119666684

The F35 fighter jet project will cost trillions. It's only use is as a weapon of war and getting congressmen re-elected.

On top of this half of NASA's budget goes to the likes of Boeing for old rope so they can compete with Airbus. The SLS rocket that has been delayed yet again costs billions and is quite literally made from old stuff rescued from the back of the warehouse.

The Double Asteroid Redirection Test (DART) project cost $324.5 million. $308 million was spent on spacecraft development, $68.8 million for launch services, and $16.5 million is expected to spent on operations and data analysis. Not cheap but the potential upside is huge.

The universe is probably littered with the one-planet graves of cultures which made the sensible economic decision that there's no good reason to go into space--each discovered, studied, and remembered by the ones who made the irrational decision. https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/893:_65_Years