Polarisation of Irish Citizens Rights

CeCe12

Have the Government totally overshadowed their own citizens rights and needs in favour of Ukrainian refugees?

Discuss.

Capt'n Midnight

Please do not start a thread with a 2 line thought that came into your head.

CeCe12

Not a 2 liner unfortunately, a long dance.

CeCe12

Okay, since I am the Author of this thread I must expand on my thoughts.

I was and to a reasonable degree am still in favour of supporting the Ukrainian refugees. I totally understand they are/ have fleeded from persecution.

However, not too the degree of citizens of Ireland (regardless of country of origin) basically being told to shut up/ put up with what's unfolding. To have no voice or opinion (unless it pertains to the popular narrative), question nothing and carry on blindly no with direction.

Be labelled as xenophobic/ racist for questioning anything?

This is not democracy.

Jim_Hodge

What do you think yourself?

Elaborate.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058264873/polarisation-of-irish-citizens-rights

Have they? No.

There isn't an single Irish citizen/resident without a roof over their head tonight, by reason of Ukrainian refugees arriving here. Not one.

The way you've framed your proposition is wrong to begin with. I'm not sure if you understand what are to be 'rights', in the legal and constitutional sense, as opposed to supports.

In fact, I'm not sure many in populist politics in Ireland do understand the distinction really.

Anyway, I feel myself that it won't be too long before the many millions of Ukrainians who have been forced to leave their homes will begin to return, if not to their home cities and towns, but to the west of their nation for resettlement until the remainder of the Russians are forced out of east and south. And then the hard work for them will begin.

In the meantime, the Irish and other Governments are doing exactly what we should be doing for them, even at a considerable level of cost or disruption.

Its what we'd be hoping others would do for us. You either support democracy and democratic norms and people victimised for believing in it, or you do not and you wait for it to be your turn.

sydthebeat

Dey durk Ur durbs

thegame983

No. And they don't care about the Ukrainians either.

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664741#Comment_119664741

Great post and far more than the terrible OP deserved. It is beneath even CA's usual standard.

Count Dracula

What annoys me most is that the Civil War in Yemen has killed over almost 400,000 people and it rarely gets a mention.

It all depends what side you are on OP.

It is out of your control and mine. I think the widespread refugee issue was probably necessary in the short term for displaced citizens from Donbas, particularly Ukrainians. However I don't see any reason why they could or should not be settled in Western Ukraine. Putin has long said he has no interest in going any further.

I think politically the Ukrainian government are using the refugee issue to bring their war to the rest of Europe and beyond. It allows them to garner more tangibility with the EU and it brings their plight to everyone's doorstep. It suits the arms dealers who are making a fortune selling arms. They put people in power in the US for that very reason. Arms dealers needed a new conflict after Afghanistan and they are running out of Yemeni insurgents to kill, Ukraine is the obvious choice and Putin did not need to be asked twice. He knows exactly what he is doing and how long it should take.

The sooner that war is finished in the Ukraine the quicker we can all get on with our lives. Regrettably we are all paying for it now in our back pockets.

CeCe12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664741#Comment_119664741

Partially agree with you. Obviously there are no citizens without a roof over their head tonight in relation to Ukrainians.

How many Ukrainians do you believe are on the street tonight?

Have the Government acted Les Incompetent?

CeCe12

??

CeCe12

I understand you all do not see my point of view. May I ask you this?

What about Russian citizens fleeing the war?

CeCe12

Agree Dracula.

Pretentious at the least to pick and choose, whom we carry favour with.

Deprived children from any state are more in need than well able bodied adults from any country.

For Forks Sake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058264873/polarisation-of-irish-citizens-rights

Did you not get banned from the Ukraine thread in CA for parroting Russian propaganda? Me thinks this thread isn't coming from any place of genuine concern

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664504#Comment_119664504

So just another of your anti Ukraine threads? You bring democracy into it and don't seem to understand what democracy or rights entail.

Keep creating these threads. One might stick for you at some point.

CeCe12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665106#Comment_119665106

Banned yes I was. Parroting Russian propaganda no.

Oh I am genuine on this topic.

CeCe12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665311#Comment_119665311

Thanks for your thoughts.

Sam Russell

The Ukrainians have been granted protection by the EU and we are supporting that. They are not seeking asylum, it has already been granted.

The question of others seeking refugee protection is another issue entirely.

Why should someone from the horn of Africa seek to be a refugee in Ireland? It is unlikely they have any connection with Ireland. Surely they should seek protection nearer home.

The same goes for other regions where war is the cause for people seeking refuge from war. It smacks of refugee tourism.

We should have a tight timetable for those seeking refugee status and not have people stuck in direct provision for a decade.

Date of arrival should start the clock ticking, with a month for the claim to be lodge, another month for reply - perhaps demanding more information/proof. A further month for decision, and another month for a possible appeal. After that, a failed asylum seeker is deported.

Of course, the timetable could be different, but it should not stretch beyond a year. It is inhuman to keep people seeking asylum on the hope of a different decision for years and years.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665632#Comment_119665632

You're welcome; at least they're better than rehashed xenophobic musings.

CeCe12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665971#Comment_119665971

Would like to point out, I have not authored any previous threads.

Incorrect on that aspect.

Hotblack Desiato

Putin has long said he has no interest in going any further.

And we all know how trustworthy the word of Vladimir Putin is.

Elmer Blooker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058264873/polarisation-of-irish-citizens-rights

Us natives required vaccination certs to meet our friends for a drink or meal and take a flight, Ukrainian refugees came here with no questions asked about their vaccination status.

My car is required to be safe and road worthy meaning I must have a valid NCT test. Have any of the many Ukrainians vehicles here been rigorously tested like mine?

What is the situation with insurance if any of us are unfortunate to be involved in an accident with one of these right hand drive vehicles on a country road? This is important and should be clarified.

Snickers Man

Do you even know what "polarisation" means?

sheesh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119700518#Comment_119700518

I can answer that!

No. No they do not.

CeCe12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119700518#Comment_119700518

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119700613#Comment_119700613

Segregation within a society, exactly what is unfolding in Ireland.

Elmer Blooker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119699088#Comment_119699088

Heard that one before.

hint: NATO 1989

Snickers Man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119700518#Comment_119700518

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119700613#Comment_119700613

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119700673#Comment_119700673

Hah!! You were right, Sheesh!

CeCe12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119701433#Comment_119701433

Enlighten me, what's your interpretation of the word?

sheesh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119701495#Comment_119701495

you tell us what you meant first LOL

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119701216#Comment_119701216

Rubbish

James Baker made a vague statement which he did not have the power or right to make on behalf of NATO. He had no right to tell former USSR states what organisations they couldn't join, or compel them forever to be vassal states of Russia - is that a position you support?

And you try to equate that with a brutal genocidal invasion of a peaceful nation. Shameful stuff.

Elmer Blooker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119702711#Comment_119702711

You probably haven’t noticed the one million+ who have died in ‘humanitarian interventions’ since the beginning of this century.

Hotblack Desiato

Putin apologism is going to get you nowhere.

Snickers Man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119701495#Comment_119701495

Well there's this thing called a dictionary.....

I am of an age where I still make regular use of old-fashioned hard copy dictionaries. I have two in my possession: an old (about 30 years or so) Concise Oxford English Dictionary and an even older--actually pretty archaic--Chamber's English dictionary.

The former describes polarisation as "(figurative) divide into two groups of opposite extremes of opinion etc"

Whereas Chambers describes it as: "to give polarity to". Polarity in the same tome is described as: "State of having two opposite poles".

The distinguishing feature of a polarised entity, therefore, whether it is a physical object such as a magnet or a living organism such as a country or society is that it has TWO distinguishing features that repel and separate each other. Polarisation produces forces that permit no nuance, co-existence or compromise. One has to be one or the other.

In general Irish society is not polarised, with the exception of the North where there is traditional and very strong polarisaton between Catholic/Irish and Protestant/British communities. One particularly dim Secretary of State for Northern Ireland pronounced herself surprised to find out, once she had been in the job for some time, that every election in Northern Ireland was effectively two separate elections for the Nationalist and Unionist communities. In other words, there might be swings of support between parties WITHIN the polarised groups (Unionists shifting their support between say the UUP, DUP and TUV, or Nationalist support ebbing backwards and forwards between Sinn Fein and SDLP) but there was very little evidence of voters deserting say Sinn Fein and voting for the DUP. That just doesn't happen in a polarised society.

Britain and America are becoming increasingly polarised because their voting systems encourage it. You effectively have only one choice: Red or Blue in either case. And just to be confusing, red in the US approximates to bue in Britain and vice versa. Polarisation is bad. Compromise and co-existence is much better.

You are talking about something else when you mention polarisation with regard to Ukrainian refugees. It is inevitable that you will be misunderstood because you don't yourself understand the words you are using.

Sorry, but you've just tickled one of my bugbears. I hate to see journalists using words like "Colonisation" and "whiteness" (among others) as trigger words to describe things which are far better described with other more appropriate words. I'm trying not to be a grammar or semantic Nazi but I do think it is important for people to say what they mean in a way that other people will understand what they mean. Otherwise, why say it at all?

Brussels Sprout

A thread ranting about Ukrainian refugees fueled by posters who've already been banned from the Russian thread in CA for persistently posting pro-Kremlin garbage.

CeCe12

No one is posting pro kremlin anything. It is within our right to question the treatment of Irish citizens or do we suddenly live under a dictatorship regime?

CeCe12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119704695#Comment_119704695

Appreciate your reply. I am very certain I am using the correct term. Believe it or not, I do know what a dictionary is. Furthermore, OSCOLA referencing also backs up my definition of the word Polarisation.

rock22

How does OSCOLA referencing back up your definition of "Polarisation" ??

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705522#Comment_119705522

That's odd. I never realised Boards mods controlled Irish society? 🙄

sheesh

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/polarization

this is a definition of polarization.

CeCe12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119716084#Comment_119716084

Sheesh, this is the exact definition I have worked into my topic header.

I still believe it stands in my title.

Polarisation of one set of people vs another set of people, ie segregation with regards to treatment. Not necessarily that segregation was the intention but is appearing to be the outcome.

CeCe12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119712510#Comment_119712510

Not referring to mods in the slightest, rather other posters like yourself who default to the "ism" calling, when anything is questioned.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119716858#Comment_119716858

Rubbish. Either back that up with quotes or withdraw it.

CeCe12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119717208#Comment_119717208

I see you changed your original post. You stated boards mods do not control Irish society. I made no reference to mods, my reference is in regard to posters like yourself trying to dismiss any discussion involving people with a different view on subjects than yourself. We are all free to have an opinion and voice it.

CeCe12

Citizens rights have been comprised without a doubt.

Sam Russell

Ukrainians are refugees with agreed asylum plain and simple.

Those arriving seeking international protection have to prove their right to be considered for asylum. Of those who arrive here, many do not have travel documentation, and probably more serious documentation, like passports. Many are economic migrants and should be deported immediately. Those claiming they are not provided accommodation should be asked where they spent the previous seven nights. That might clarify their status regarding accommodation.

It would appear wrong to me that anyone can apply for asylum here no matter where they are from. It should be a requirement that they seek protection as close to home as possible. It should be then a question of international agreements to provide asylum, not the efforts of the migrant to get to the most favourable place.

CeCe12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119718250#Comment_119718250

I agree with you. However we have reached the point of being unable to adequately fill anyone's needs. Including homegrown and citizens of naturalisation.

In my opinion, we need to do a "Stock take" so to speak. To fulfill the needs of all who are already present in our Sovereign State.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119717790#Comment_119717790

I changed my post because I forgot, given the extremely low standard of this thread that it was actually in Politics and not in AH or CA

So, here you are questioning it, yet you are saying you can't.