Ireland needs to invest in a modern Nuclear Power Plant?

Inquitus

Some context on hydrogen as a fuel, changing opinions, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0Ff0Fg4mTI

namloc1980

It won't happen here. Too much red tape and local objections. We get politician and NIMBYs losing their minds over minor stuff like cycle lanes. Can you imagine the hysteria over a nuclear power plant??

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119652470#Comment_119652470

We won't be getting Fusion either with the terribly worded legislation.

Danzy

If these new generation ever leave theoretical or experimental phases,why not.

The current nuclear plants are woefully dear. Even in an energy crisis.

Housefree

No

igCorcaigh

Should have been done years ago. This is one area that I disagree with some of the old Green politics.

2011

I see the cost per unit of electricity in France is about 50% of what it is here at under €0.18 per unit. Link:

https://www.french-property.com/guides/france/utilities/electricity/tariff

France generates over 80% of its electricity from nuclear power.

2011

For those that put all their fair in “green hydrogen” you need to appreciate that no commercially viable green hydrogen plant is in existence.

Also where is the electricity required to make green hydrogen supposed to come from?

mohawk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119652642#Comment_119652642

I recently came across an engineer talking about nuclear and the waste etc. Impression I got is that nuclear is no where near as bad as the greens made out. I feel like the greens have a very narrow focus on the environmental issues facing us. Carbon bad, wind good. Carbon is far from the only problem our environment is facing. We are poisoning the planet and using up too many resources.

I think that the Irish public are so poisoned against nuclear that it will never happen here.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119652642#Comment_119652642

I mean it's been FF and FG in power for decades, why haven't they got one built, how are the Greens to blame for no nuclear?

maccored

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119658789#Comment_119658789

norway are working on creating it from water - but agreed - vast quantities of clean electricity is required which isn possible atm. at the same time, is dumping nuclear waste in oceans etc the right way to go? Nuclear might reduce some pollution but it just creates a new kind

2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119659153#Comment_119659153

France is the only modern country in the western world with a carbon footprint that is in decline. The are also the largest net exporter per head of population in the world.

Nuclear waste is an issue but in my opinion this is the least **** option that we have by a large margin. What is the alternative? I’m all for renewable energy, I have worked in that sector in a senior design role for years (I’m an engineer). But renewables can only be part of the solution. Sometimes the wind doesn’t blow and the sun doesn’t shine. That is the reality.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119658775#Comment_119658775

It's subsidized, that's why they can sell it at that.

I've no problem with nuclear, i think if people want a low to zero carbon future energy it's an important part.

It would break the State here though to invest in it, there are good reasons why private capital mostly avoids nuclear, Why it is totalitarian regimes that are dominant in the sector.

As a strategic asset for Energy may be the EU should have a certain amount, put it on the never never of ECB stimulus.

We should certainly buy energy from nuclear plants, even support one that's already existing.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119658775#Comment_119658775

the french very heavily subsidize nuclear to the tune of hundreds of billions, and it also subsidizes electricity in general.

it would neither be financially viable for ireland to adopt nuclear due to the high costs and high subsidies required, and it definitely wouldn't be able to subsidize electricity to the level france does while using nuclear.

france's electricity is cheap dispite nuclear, not because of it, and it has the benefit of an all state operator from what i can gather.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119658818#Comment_119658818

it's not that they are poisoned against it, it's that they know the money can be better spent elsewhere on technologies more modern, efficient and reliable then nuclear ever can be.

essentially it's an outdated expensive technology.

NIMAN

Nuclear in Ireland? Ha, don't make me laugh. Never happen.

Sure they've been telling us for about 20years we have a western coastline that's one of the best in the world for wind energy, yet over that 20 years have done a tiny amount to exploit it. Way behind where we should be.

And the major announcement the other day that every school is going to get solar panels to help reduce their energy bills. Why did it take an energy crisis to make this happen, or even be considered (I say considered because it hasn't happened yet, and no doubt will be dogged by delays in its implementation)?

Boggles

How long does it take to build one?

8 to 10 years? So multiply that by 2.5 because it's Ireland, then multiple the cost by pie squared.

If we signed off on in today, it would be at least mid 2030 before it was constructed, it's outdated and expensive now imagine what it will be then.

By 2030-40 large scale battery storage will be the solution to the wind not blowing or the sun not shining.

We should invest money into putting solar on every public building that is suitable, there must be 1000s of square miles of farm sheds and barns to do similar.

It shouldn't be subsided either by grants. As that is just a false economy.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119659421#Comment_119659421

And the major announcement the other day that every school is going to get solar panels to help reduce their energy bills. Why did it take an energy crisis to make this happen, or even be considered

Because we were being pumped with cheap gas, no one was complaining then, but everyone is complaining now.

EOQRTL

It will never happen here, there are too many hippies and wasters that object to anything and everything.

joseywhales

It is logical. Nobody has put forward an argument that satisfied me at least, where the base load can be covered by renewables and interconnections, like there is wishful theory and their are proven solutions.

Modern nuclear is safe.

Nuclear is better for the environment.

Nuclear would give us extra energy security from Geo political risk.

The cons are expense, the small amount of waste and the time it takes to build one.

That last argument is a fallacy, you don't make the wrong decision because the right decision takes too long to implement. Short term thinking is what has us in this mess. It's like investing in a good bridge.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119659820#Comment_119659820

That last argument is a fallacy, you don't make the wrong decision because the right decision takes too long to implement

That's only if you think the rights decision is nuclear.

Anyway as with everything else it will come to cost. Energy at double the price will be a tough sell.

As for security, there is only a handful countries that produce the Uranium required and most of them are basket cases. All though we could say the same about lithium.

knipex

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119659393#Comment_119659393

Really

Can you name a current technology that provides, carbon free, reliable, consistent electricity that's not weather dependent ??

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119660290#Comment_119660290

yes, it is outdated technology looking for a big problem in ireland's case that ultimately it would not solve for us as it would create many more.

it would not pass a business case as we would need at least 3 reactors at 40 billion each to construct and the billions of subsidy, and even if we could keep 2 on the go at any one time, one powering and the other acting as a working back up rather then a slightly dormant back up, there would not be enough demand for energy to export and even if there was it would not be at a viable/economic rate to pay back the costs.

it's not carbon free either, it just expells it in a different way.

it's time was in the 50s, 60s at a stretch, after that you can forget it as the costs just don't stack up.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119660290#Comment_119660290

There is no such thing as carbon free anything.

But probably Hydro would come closet to your criteria.

I think Paraguay is 100% hydro, 10% of production for themselves, 90% exported.

Then geothermal, The vast majority of heating in Iceland is powered this way.

igCorcaigh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119659097#Comment_119659097

I mean the wider Green movement... not the Irish GP.

igCorcaigh

Is fusion the way to go, with massive investment?

There has been some advances made recently... or is the project fools' gold?

Quantum Erasure

It's pronounced 'nuclear'...

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119660851#Comment_119660851

Fusion power is 20 years away, always has been

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119660851#Comment_119660851

Yes they've passed some milestones recently. But still years or decades away. Fusion can be ramped up and down so could would be a much better match with renewables than existing fission power.

It won't be too cheap to meter. ITER is costing something like €20 billion and it'll have an experimental lifetime of about 20 years which means it will be a while before they mass produce them.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119660851#Comment_119660851

probably fools gold in all honesty, as it has taken decades for fusion to even get to those tiny developments and by the time there is a major development it will be long out of date.

the investment to really get R&D going would be beyond affordable so i think the current experiments continuing for as long as they can get funding is the best bet really.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119659820#Comment_119659820

Nuclear can't follow demand so you still need dispatchable generators like gas or massive amounts of storage for day/night summer/winter.

Grid improvements mean that we now have a grid where only 25% of the demand is baseload and soon that will be just 5%. Base load can be covered by dispatchable generators like hydro, biomass , CHP , pumped storage etc. and gas which will drop to 20% by 2030 and then 1% a year until 2050. Add in generators from data centre and demand shedding to load balance too.

The non-baseload can be non-synchronous like wind or solar or interconnectors (2.2GW soon) or battery storageoday that can up to 75% but that will rise up to 95%. We already get half our electricity from wind in February and we'll be doubling the amount of installed wind, and adding 5GW of solar too. So lots of renewables coming on line.

All nuclear fuel would have to be imported. If there's a nuclear renaissance then the cost of uranium doubles with each doubling of global demand. So doesn't have security of supply unless it remains a niche fuel.

Build time for nuclear is longer than the payback time of wind or solar. Which means not only are they cheaper and quicker to deploy, you could wait for the next generation of generators to prove themselves before needing to invest.

Also Sweden is the latest European country to have a nuclear reactor with an planned outage that's become an unplanned outage now extended till the end of winter. A German reactor is due to shutdown for a week (ha!) even though the operators said previously it would keep going until the end of the year when it will be retired. Don't kid yourselves that nuclear is anywhere near as reliable as advertised. You will absolutely need massive amounts of backup.

If you factor in from scheduled start date then the average modern nuclear power plants in Europe and the US has a single digit % uptime.