Lighting Question

heffo500

Hi,

I'm a 2nd year apprentice but I don't do domestic and I'm trying to get my head around some it.

Is it common practice to wire all lighting circuits in T&E? Do most electricians bring the neutral to the switch now?

So at a switch you would have three T&Es, feed in, feed out to next switch and switch live T&E to the light fitting?

When wiring lights circuits in T&E, how do you handle two way switching? As permanent live is at one switch and the switch live at the second switch?

Cheers

Luke

Citizen Six

It depends on who you learn from really. Some people say neutrals at a switch can be dangerous. Two way switching would just have a twin brown between the two switches. Then it would get the feed from one switch, and the switch wire would be at the other.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119625596#Comment_119625596

Some apprentices don't do domestic work. You can help someone without being rude to them.

meercat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058263616/lighting-question

Yes. It’s easier and simpler to bring t&e to each switch point. I’d also bring them to the 2 way switch’s (just connector them if not required). That way you can put the switch wire either end. Just put brown/brown t&e strappers between the required switches

heffo500

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119625611#Comment_119625611

Spot on, I do MV and HV work mainly as well some UPS work.

heffo500

God, I'd love to be your apprentice, not!

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119625664#Comment_119625664

I don't think you understand the training so. Spending a short while wiring up a few sockets and lights in a 1m x 1m cubicle does not give you the same experience as wiring domestic work day in day out. If you think it does, then I hope to god you never try and wire a house for anyone.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119628901#Comment_119628901

It doesn't really make a difference, some people don't remember it very well, if they don't work with it. There's nothing wrong with asking questions if you don't understand something.

You comments add nothing to the discussion. And you just come across like someone that would be difficult to work with.

heffo500

Another question I have, why don't we use 1 mm T&E cable for lighting especially given the rise in material costs?

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119631062#Comment_119631062

Probably no reason I can think of

The B6 used to nuisance trip when incandescent bulbs would blow .They use 1mm in the UK , saving would be small on materials but some of the smart lighting controls might be easier terminated ?

Girl Geraldine

Lighting circuits are way, way over designed considering the comparatively miniscule currents they now have to handle with almost universal LED lighting versus their thirsty incandescent predecessors.

One would wonder, does it even make any sense to turn lights off any more. Just let them on permanently.

eggy81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119625664#Comment_119625664

No they don’t.

kirk.

There's too much smart control of lighting and power now

Basic flush pirs are great for indoor lighting for hallways and toilets etc

eggy81

Personally I’d never bring a t&e to a switch. I’d only us t&e to loop lights on same switching circuit. I’d run brown single to switches from board. Single brown up to first light for switch wire and then loop the lights on that circuit. Brown brown between switches for 2 way or intermediate switches. Earthing in continuous loop through the lights and switches on that circuit. Sometimes through the earth in the twin cables and single earths where required. I’d only bring a neutral to a switch where a cable might be travelling down the wall from a switch to outside for garden lights etc.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119638118#Comment_119638118

T&E at switches started around 2000 give or take

Easier termination at lights and then the neutral was handy for smart switches, dunno much bout those

eggy81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119638191#Comment_119638191

I know it’s common practice now alright. I actually started my apprenticeship in 2000 and did domestic for the first 2 years. I can’t remember whether it was the sparks I worked with or the phase 2 instructor who said it was bad practice at the time. Again this could have been horsesh1t too. Or maybe I’m confusing it with 3 plate. Bringing power to the light that was considered bad practice??

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119638080#Comment_119638080

I don't think he understands how the different phases work. It looks like he thinks all apprentices work in different sectors while training which isn't the case. The only domestic wiring some people do is in theory, and in a small cubicle where you wire up a few sockets and lights. Not at all like how things are learned in the real world.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119638227#Comment_119638227

Bringing power to the light ie; 3-plate would be considered old school I reckon now

Never really liked it for domestic work, power at lights when switched off to no guarantee of a competent person working on lights in domestic work

I didn't see any disadvantage to neutrals(t+e) at switches when it came in . It came in before the neutral was useful for smart control ,it was just handier for terminating at lights

meercat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119638118#Comment_119638118

It’s not permitted to run a single brown pvc/pvc.all live conductors require an earth with it

eggy81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119638294#Comment_119638294

Wow big changes so in last few years of rules changes. I haven’t wired a house since 2006 😂😂 Does the earth have to physically be part of the structure of the live cable or can you tape a single earth with a brown. I know they manufacture single brown with earth within it now don’t they ?

meercat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119638331#Comment_119638331

Has to be actually part of the same cable.yes brown/earth pvc/pvc has been available for a long while now. Blue/earth pvc/pvc also

eggy81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640172#Comment_119640172

If you serve your time on big industrial sites these days I’d say you’d be lucky to see any switching with the way things have gone with Dali systems and the like. I reckon it’s entirely possible to only see 2 way switching, intermediate etc in your off the job phases.

What’s wrong with wiring lights in singles. Would you go putting multi cored cables down pipes with a lock of jb’s everywhere?