River bathing rights

Spaulding

Hi there

I was hoping that you guys might be able to shed some light on a question regarding the right to swim at a local river bathing spot!

Where I live there is a spot on the river where many people from the local community swim and have done so for many many decades (possibly even centuries). There is a public right of way to this bathing spot.

The landowner is unhappy about the public right of way but appears to have conceded that one exists in law and that he can't do anything about it.

However, the argument is now being made that as the landowner owns the property on the same side of the river as the bathing spot that he also owns half way across the river and therefore whilst he can't spot locals using the public right of way to the river bank, he owns half of the river and can therefore refuse people access to swim in the water. I know the practicalities of all that sound a bit unlikely, but I just wanted to hear what people thoughts are with respect to the legal position.

As far as a I understand at common law, bathing rights can be acquired by long use over time i.e. 20 years. However, I'm finding it very difficult to find anything definitive online that explains the situation regarding river bathing spot. I'm not so concerned about getting the spot recognised by the council etc. I'm just looking for a steer as to the legal position as things currently stand.

Whilst a landowner who owns land up to the river bank does legally own the river bed half way across, and the space above the river, he does not in fact own the water (as far as I understand). Now I might be getting there by the wrong logic, but would it stand that where someone has a public right of way to the river bank, they are then free to swim in the water as the landowner doesn't actually own the water - therefore allowing unfettered access across the land to the bathing spot to swim!

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated?

Many thanks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058263183/river-bathing-rights

it seems that way so long as their feet do not ever touch the river bed? How deep is it?

Spaulding

In some parts of the bathing spot it is up to your knees and in others it is well over head height.

whisky_galore

If people aren't doing any harm, fcuk him.

Dare him to call the guards and see how fast, or not, they get there. They're slow enough responding to obvious scumbags issuing threats and coming back at night to rob places.

John_Rambo

You're down to the tricky business of riparian rights here, I was once a keen canoeist and have paddled most of Irelands waterways.

Once you enter into private property you enter private property and if on a particular river, the land on both sides is owned by the same individual, then that individual has the right to stop you canoeing down that section of river in the same way as that owner has the right to stop people walking across their fields. A landowner who only owns the land on one side of the river cannot really stop canoeing down the river except with the co-operation of the land owner on the other side.

This fella must be some gowl to try and stop people bathing and swimming, I've only once in years of canoeing all over Ireland been threatened and told to move off the water. That person ended up cooling down in the water after pushing things way too far.

Spaulding

Thanks for all the replies guys - much appreciated!

Maybe my logic is flawed with respect to a landlord owner only owning the river bank and not the actual water therefore if people have a right of way to the river bank they can swim there as the landowner does not own the water?!

However, it appears that under common law in the UK, which I understand would still apply in Ireland (unless there is legislation or Irish court decisions to the contrary), that bathing and swimming rights can be acquired by use over time.

https://www.wildswimming.co.uk/access-and-law/

See the fifth subsection of this article titled 'Specific local waterbodies historically used for domestic bathing and recreation (community long use)'. In particular the following extract:

'...........these specific individual locations has been used for bathing and swimming and have thus acquired a common law right of access through traditional and historic use. In practice the period of time over which continuous use establishes a specific local public right of access under common law is around 20 years and this continuous period can have occured in the past.'

If there are any legal minds out there that could give a view it would be most welcome!

Gatling

Oddly enough the same situation appeared on NY times Facebook page

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119612516#Comment_119612516

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