two Olympic size rinks Dublin

cena

This is taken from the Irish ice hockey association facebook page

IRISH WINTER SPORTS HIGHLIGHT OPPORTUNITY FOR PRIVATELY FUNDED PERMANENT ICE FACILITY

CHL CONSULTING FEASIBILITY STUDY PUBLISHED AND STAKEHOLDER MEETINGS UNDERWAY

WORLD GOVERNING BODIES IN DUBLIN TO GIVE BACKING

8 SEPTEMBER 2022,

Today the Irish Winter Sports Strategy Coordination Group, strengthened their case for the construction of a National Winter Sports Centre in Ireland by publishing the findings of a feasibility study conducted by CHL consulting and presenting a private investor funded model that would deliver a €60m permanent ice-facility for Ireland at little or no cost to the tax-payer.

In a series of presentations to stakeholders including local authorities, Sport Ireland, and the Minister of State for Sport, Jack Chambers, the benefits of the facility were explained by the Winter Sport National Federations and senior representatives from the World Governing Bodies for Ice Hockey, Curling and Luge, along with private investors willing to develop the facility at little or no cost to the tax-payers.

There is no permanent ice facility in the Republic of Ireland. Our closest neighbours in Great Britain are already reaping the rewards of ice facilities, with 62 permanent rinks. There are also two very successful permanent ice-facilities in Belfast, the Dundonald International Ice Bowl and the SSE Arena.

The benefits of a permanent facility are far reaching. The feasibility study conducted by CHL shows that a National Winter Sports Centre would generate an economic impact for Ireland of €111 million and deliver €25.5 million to the exchequer during construction phase, as well as €2.05 million annually once operational. Besides the recreational and sporting benefits, it is also estimated that it would generate an additional €8.9 million annual spend in the Greater Dublin Area.

The proposed facility would house two Olympic sized rinks, with one rink having capacity for 6,000 spectators, providing multi-use options for ice and non-ice entertainment, concerts, ice-hockey matches and events, similar to Belfast’s SSE Arena, filling a significant gap in the Dublin market for a mid-size, multi-purpose venue.

Besides the strong economic case for support of a permanent ice-facility, the sport and social benefits also align very strongly with the recommendations from the government’s National Sports Policy. Ice sports generally offer complete gender balance, as well as a wide age-range of participants through sports like curling, ice skating and ice-hockey. Ice facilities also play a significant role in social integration, particularly at a time when Ireland is welcoming large numbers of people from countries where winter sports are integrated with their own cultural identity.

Speaking at the launch of the feasibility study, CEO of the Olympic Federation of Ireland Peter Sherrard said,

“The presentations by the Winter Sports and investors, underpinned by CHL’s feasibility study, show that we have a huge opportunity to create a National Winter Sports centre at little or no cost to the tax payer. Hundreds of new jobs will be created, Ireland will benefit from an investment of over €60m and our sports will at last have permanent facilities akin to almost every other country in the EU. We look forward to working with Government and local authority stakeholders to capitalise on this inward investment opportunity for our economy and our sports.”

Visiting Dublin to present the case along with Ireland’s Winter Sport Federations, International Ice Hockey (IIHF) President, Luc Tardif added,

“Ice facilities have the potential to be economically lucrative. They have the ability to function within multi-sport facilities that can subsequently attract not just ice hockey fans or ice skating fans in general, but fans of other sports, music concerts, expositions, and congresses. We have seen this work effectively with venue development and management not just in our top ice-hockey playing nations, but within developing ice-hockey nations also. With good will and all stakeholders working together, this could be a huge success for Ireland.”

World Curling’s Head of Development, Scott Arnold, was also in Dublin, lending his support to the project,

“The World Curling Federation is happy to support our valued Member, the Irish Curling Association. They have accomplished so much without a dedicated ice rink, and we are encouraged by what we heard during the meetings here in Dublin this week. We have seen exponential growth from other WCF Member Associations upon the completion of their first dedicated ice rinks and would expect nothing less in Ireland. The ICA’s dedication is inspirational, and we look forward to following their progress and continuing to help them achieve their goals.”

Markus Aschauer, Chairman of the Track Construction Commission at the International Luge Federation said,

"The International Luge Federation is delighted to be supporting this project which we believe will help grow our sport in Ireland and attract future athletes into winter sports. There is no better way to introduce people to luge and sliding sports than by giving them the opportunity to slide on ice and experience our sport first-hand. The start track will also provide the Irish luge team with a fantastic training facility that is local and reduces the need to travel abroad.”

Speaking from Dublin, Viesturs Koziols, Chairman of Facilities with IIHF added,

“A new multifunctional arena in Ireland will be used by tens of thousands of people, and will become a landmark and signature for a modern Dublin City. The social aspect of it cannot be underestimated, due to the fact that investment in projects like this is much cheaper than investments in hospitals and healthcare. Arenas are the safest place for kids to be and gives them a great sporting outlet where they can learn teamwork and enjoy the related social, health and sporting benefits.”

cena

I am all for it. But what do other people think?

Dyr

"for Ireland at little or no cost to the tax-payer."

So that would probably pan out at about 30-50 million once joe taxpayer bails the project out

cena

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119605147#Comment_119605147

I don't think so. The IIHA wouldn't want to have the government near this after years of trying to get funding

Potential-Monke

If it's privately built and operated, then work away. Going by the above comment, they don't want government involvement, so yeah, work away. But Dublin, again, as if it's the only place in Ireland and it's full of space, ease of access and cheap to live in or visit.....................

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119605246#Comment_119605246

There was an ice rink in Dundalk previously, I don't know why it closed.

Potential-Monke

Was closed to open under new management but hasn't happened yet.

Put them in Castletown, Westmeath, the literal center of Ireland.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119605042#Comment_119605042

I think its great.

Atlantic Dawn

Good idea but government should have no part in running it.

What normally kills these places off is the huge cost of public liability insurance where a member of the public falls and gets as much as a paper cut sized wound they get an insurance settlement of €54k because their 'insert fictional future career demanding no single scar' is now at risk. Perhaps PIAB resolution on claims will have killed this all off.

happyoutscan

I'd love to see this go ahead but I'd have my doubts.

Shame, ice hockey is a great game and ice skating is a fantastic activity for all age groups.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119605292#Comment_119605292

Which one? Isn't there two castletowns in Westmeath?

Potential-Monke

I just googled central point of Ireland, Castletown Geoghan.

“Little or no cost to the taxpayer”. *Weeps. *Laughs

Try it sometime.

Gusser09

It should go ahead. This is why we cant progress at anything in this country. People wont invest in infrastructure.

TheCrank

There has been one in Belfast for about 35 years. Owned and run by Castlereagh City Council. No reason it can't happen here.

cena

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119605292#Comment_119605292

Planet ice uk was to take it, but now dkit owns the building. They won't hear of a rink going back into. The IIHA offered good money to lease the building off them

cena

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119605616#Comment_119605616

Greatly used still. They going to build a new rink behind this one.

I'd love to see it happen. Currently the only Ice Hockey team on this Island is the Belfast Giants who I support.

There's zero reason for a relatively well off country like Ireland not to have one.

cena

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119605799#Comment_119605799

it would be great to see a pro team here and be able to go to games

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119605887#Comment_119605887

I used to live in a city much smaller than Dublin and went to their games all the time.

My final concern is tickets for a dublin team will be extortionate, as opposed to a cheap night out.

Pixel Eater

I'm always surprised each winter to see kids whizzing around the temporary ice rinks they set up... where did they learn?!

Anyway, Dublin should definitely have a permanent one. It's odd we don't have one at this stage especially considering the amount of Eastern Europeans here who are (presumingly) more into winter sports than the natives.

timmyntc

Won't happen. Ireland doesn't do minority sports - only football gaa and horseracing

Now if they were to add horses to the ice rink, and the odd high ball in to the square, then you've got a proposal for sport ireland. Gaelic Ice-horsing.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119606865#Comment_119606865

I used to travel to Bratislava quite a lot and tried to watch HC Slovan play if I could. I really enjoyed it as it was something a bit different. It was very much something that Dad took the kids too as well, very family oriented.

I can’t see it happening here though. They’ll find some land, apply for planning permission and then PBP or some other bottom feeders will start shouting “what about the homeless people” and the whole thing will turn into a political got potato

Princess Calla

I think it's a great idea.

Dublin had 2 one in phibsborough and one in Dolphins Barn they closed down in the 90's.

It's kinda embarrassing that a "wealthy" country like Ireland can't provide these facilities.

Ham_Sandwich

theyve money for this but not for proper facilities in areas like darndale or finglas

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119605799#Comment_119605799

I haven't been in a while, but the shopping etc space in the same facility as the rink is literally dying on its arse. Real shame to see, I don't think there is much in it now bar w5

I can't see it happening myself. I think ice skating is already ingrained as a Christmas festival hobby here. I cant see it being profitable in Spring or Summer and it' expensive to maintain.

With all the fuss about energy levels I don't think it will be taken on.

Thats without the insurance aspect.

cena

We have jr kids, women and men's national team.

The ladies are heading to Kuwait to play soon and kids are going to Canada to play in October.

All tax payer free. Self funded

salmocab

Be great to see, used to go to dolphins barn regularly probably early 90s. Was in Canada around 2006 and was surprised to learn I could still skate quite well although suspect the knees wouldn’t be keen anymore.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119608709#Comment_119608709

There's plenty of other sports that people represent Ireland in with zero tax payers money. Its crazy to see professional national teams with huge resources and then the Irish team rocks up with feck all because its self funded.

The theory sounds good on the ice rink but there is a massive recession coming and cheap money is finished so getting €60m might not be aa easy as they think and then they have to get planning permission.

Then they will need public liability insurance, I thought all the companies had pulled out of Ireland

85603

maybe they could stick it on to the national sports campus and national aquatic center in blanch.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119608548#Comment_119608548

Does the shopping centre aspect not have more to do with the state of retail in the UK, plus the effects of Covid.

You can't really use that as an argument against building a rink here. Dublin probably has enough shopping centres at this point, there would be no need to include another attached to a potential rink.

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119611538#Comment_119611538

It used to be booming and other retail in Belfast is doing well (Victoria Square).

These things tend to go hand in hand is my point, a lot of rinks have other things like retail attached to them to draw people in. As far as I know the number of pro ice hockey teams competing in UK has dropped in recent years?

I think it's a lovely idea but I can't see it taking off tbh.

Seems an expensive undertaking. Why two, though? Surely one would be enough?

Also.. is the idea with all these Olympic quality/sized facilities to attract the Olympics to be hosted in Ireland? Seems like there's a crazy desire to spend money on all the wrong things.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119611917#Comment_119611917

No the idea is not the Olympics the idea is the Irish hockey league want to have somewhere to play that doesn't involve going north all the time.

People talking about this or that won't catch on but you can't blame Irish hockey for wanting somewhere to play.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119611991#Comment_119611991

"Somewhere to play" requires Olympic sized rinks, and two of them?

I'm not against providing adequate facilities for people.. this just seems excessive when the money could be directed at more important things, while also providing somewhere to play.

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119612135#Comment_119612135

I'ts funny how the term "Olympic sized" gives the impression of something excessively big. "Olympic Sized" in terms of ice hockey rinks is the standard size for European and international competition - the only other standard size is the one used by the NHL in the US. Would you feel better about it if they built an "NHL sized" rink (4m narrower, but almost 1m longer), and then Irish teams couldn't use it for any European competition?

salmocab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119612135#Comment_119612135

It’s private money so I wouldn’t be too worried about it being spent on better things.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119612316#Comment_119612316

It wasn't really the size that bothered me, but the quality and subsequently the maintenance required to keep it to that standard.. but I get your point. Thanks for the info/insight.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119612358#Comment_119612358

Ahh well, as we're likely to enter a fairly nasty recession, I wouldn't be too surprised to see many such private concerns become owned and operated by the State at a later point. Is there really the enough customers (and private funding) with Ireland's current sporting population to pay all the costs for such venues?

Podge_irl

Ice rinks in the UK tend to be council owned as they are not great private investments. That being said, I have no problem with the State funding public/community sports facilities and it is something they have a large history of.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119612135#Comment_119612135

The idea of 2 baffles me but why should an Ice Hockey association be worried about directing money to "more important things"

The "Olympic size" thing is clickbait. Almost all ice hockey rinks are the same size.

But the honest truth is this is in CA and not sport because this is actually about people who won't read the article and whinge about the government wasting money.

brick tamland

Cant see it being a runner with insurance problems. If kids softplay centres are struggling to get insurance i can only imagine what kind of premiums an ice rink would command

Used to work in phibsboro in the 90s, barely a day went by when there wasnt an ambulace called to the ice-rink

A glorified concert venue.

cena

I presume that one of the rink would be for the pro team the IIHA would like to bring Hence the 6000 seats

cena

I have been to places that have 4 ice rinks under one roof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119613021#Comment_119613021

That's like comparing Croke Park to the local hurling club.

The risk of injury in curling is almost zero.

iguana

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119606865#Comment_119606865

There is very little difference between skating on wheels and on ice. Anyone who can rollerskate or inline skate can ice-skate. At least as far as basic skating is concerned if you can do it on wheels you can do it on ice and vice versa with a few minutes adjustment. The majority of competent kids at Christmas ice-rinks all probably learned on roller/inline skates.

I'd love if we had two permanent rinks, or even one, in Ireland, though Dublin wouldn't be particularly accessible for me. The biggest issues at the moment, in terms of their viability, are insurance and the coming recession. Ice-rinks are very energy intensive and I've been reading about a trend in the US of ice-rinks becoming roller-rinks as it's a lot cheaper to maintain a wood or resin floor than having to maintain ice. There are also some studies showing ice-skating to be significantly riskier than rollerskating in terms of the amount and the seriousness of injuries from both activities which can have implications for insurance costs.

Visiting Dublin to present the case along with Ireland’s Winter Sport Federations, International Ice Hockey (IIHF) President, Luc Tardif added,

“Ice facilities have the potential to be economically lucrative"

Go ahead and build it, so, you'll make a killing.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119616717#Comment_119616717

Please read the article. its for the Winter Sports Association. Not the general public. Ice Hockey players have significant personal safety armour. The chances of injury when curling is very low.

If every other capital city in Europe has an ice rink, but Ireland can't have one because of insurance, maybe we need to look at the insurance companies?

iguana

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119620279#Comment_119620279

I read the article when it was first published as both my son and I played some hockey and I still follow the community, though we couldn't keep it up as the nearest team training is too far away. They are talking about the presence of hockey rinks being lucrative, that will mean public sessions. Comparing it to Dundonald, that means public sessions, birthday parties, hen nights, lessons, figure skating clubs, etc. And these do generally lead to more injuries on ice than the equivalent activity on wheels, especially if the rolling is on a sprung wooden floor. If the rinks aren't going to be open to the public, it would be stupid to have them both in Dublin as it would make more sense to have facilities that are exclusively for team sports more accessible to the hockey teams in Mayo, Longford, Clare, Cork, Waterford and Kilkenny, which currently make up 75% of the country's hockey teams. I know little about curling but, in terms of winter sports, I do know that the Cork Figure skating club is a bigger concern at present than the Dublin Figure skating club. So putting two specialist sporting facilities so far away from the majority of people who actually practice (wheeled versions of) those sports makes little sense unless the aim is to maximise profitability by ensuring public sessions/spectator events are as busy as possible as they are in the largest population centres. Regular teams across the country can't travel to Dublin roughly 3 times a week to train and play. And while they can, and currently do, play on wheels, once you get into complex levels of skating, the adjustment between going from wheels to ice becomes less straightforward than it is for basic skating.

As for the insurance. Insurance in Ireland is a total disaster and we're long, long past the point where it should have been looked at. Last year in Ireland, only two Christmas ice-skating facilities opened. Blanchardstown and the outdoor skate trail in Cork. Both run by ice-skating.ie and it was made clear when booking tickets for either venue that they did not have public liability insurance. And as disappointing as it was to have no local ice-rink, I fully understand why the people/companies who run those other rinks chose not to risk opening without insurance. I can't imagine it would be a goer for a permanent rink. Yes, you can have a situation where sporting federations provide insurance for their own people. But that means absolutely no public sessions and birthday parties and that's where a huge chunk of the income comes from.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119616786#Comment_119616786

That's exactly what they plan to do