Solar PV DIY

D.flynn

Hi All, As the title suggests, I’m looking to do a DIY install of Solar PV in the coming months. I am a qualified electrician with enough skills to do the roof work, however, I’m new to PV, so need some guidance to ensure I’m on the right track. I have decided that it is more cost-effective to install it myself than to use a registered installer and receive a grant. My annual usage is ~6000kwh single tariff, with a family of 5 (3 kids 4, 8, and 10 years old), consumption is only going to go up in my house.

Everything below is what I think I know, or need help with, but please feel free to correct my ignorance 

The House/Roof:

I’m located in Galway City with an SW-facing roof (azimuth 239°). The roof has a 30° slope and measures 8900mm X 5050mm. I believe that regulations require the panels to be installed 500mm from any edge, therefore, giving me a usable space of 7900mm X 4050mm.

The plan is to fill this usable space with panels (I believe this is referred to as DC oversizing?) to get the most out of dull days. All panels will be located on this roof section, but I will need optimizers on some of the panels. I’ll get into this in more detail in a future post once the specific panels are chosen and I determine how many are shaded, but to give an idea of what’s ahead, hypothetically, if I have an array consisting of 2 rows of 7 panels, at least the last 2X2 panels will have a shadow from my neighbor's chimney at some point during the day, then as the evening progresses and the sun begins to set, the entire bottom row of 7 panels will be cast into shadow first from my neighbor's roofline. The Neighbour is non-movable 😉. 

Inverter:

I’ll start with the inverter. I'm planning on a hybrid inverter with a battery. I know people are divided on whether or not a battery is economical, but I'm thinking that as I'm saving money doing this DIY and the current pending energy crisis and rising costs, that I’m better off investing in a battery, and with that, switching from single tariff to day/night and configuring the system as best I can to use the battery to tie me over until night rate kicks in. I think I read a post previously about ESB Networks having a list of specific inverters that they’ll accept on the network, is that right or did I imagine it?

From what I have read previously, there is a 6kw export limit that ESB networks require installers to abide by, is it possible to get a bigger rated inverter but limit the export only to 6Kw? will the inverter size need to be matched to or greater than the PV array (i.e.) hypothetically, a 6kw inverter will work with 4kw of panels, but would a 4 Kw inverter work with 6kw panels? should there be some margin between both (i.e.) 5880w of panels is too close/risky to use on a 6kw inverter 

Panels: I know little about what makes a good panel or manufacturer. Are there some manufacturers I should avoid? am I better off going with the highest-watt panels available and trusting the manufacturer's warranties?

Lastly, is it mandatory to get a smart meter when you have PV? I’m not too keen on them.

Any and all input is appreciated to help spec out a system, and once I pull the trigger on this, I’ll keep the post fully updated for any other users

Regards Dave

slave1

I'll try and help...

Regulations

If you are not applying for a grant then I suggest you could creep closer to the edge (if it has impact on number of panels you can fit)

then as the evening progresses and the sun begins to set, the entire bottom row of 7 panels will be cast into shadow first from my neighbor's roofline.

I'd question the economics to optimise setting sun, if midday then sure but there's much less to be gained off a setting sun (and you 30degree roof)

Inverter

It's actually voltage and not kW that limits the amount of panels you can attach to your inverter, your chosen inverter and panels will both have their max voltages in their spec sheets

Panels

I went with highest wattage, I think named panels are priced too premium with little to offer over cheaper ones

Smart Meter

Not mandatory, a lot on this Forum will advise to stay away and keep your D/N meter (I'm one of them)

General

Do the math on battery, given your background you would me mad not to go the DIY battery route (separate ever growing thread on it). You'll get a 20kWh pack for ~€2.5k or less

Citizen Six

Can you sign off the NC6 form yourself, or have someone that can? You'll need that to get any feed in tariff.

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580156#Comment_119580156

You can if you're a registered contractor.

D.flynn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580096#Comment_119580096

Thanks.

on the roof, I might creep a little bit into that 500mm if it means an extra panel on the roof, but otherwise id maintain it.

on the shadow, i suppose it wouldnt have to much impact as it's the days end anyway. would it be best to keep the 2 rows on seperate strings then?

Panels: which panels would be considered named? could you PM me your suggestions please. once i determine the panels, i can look to a matching inverter

Smart meter, AFAIK, ESB networks try to install a smart meter in every property once they receive a NC6, can I still decline? unfortunately i dont currently have a D/N meter, just the old single tariff, so thats a decision for another day.

could you also send me a link to the DIY battery thread, as thats right up my alley alright.

Thanks

D.flynn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580156#Comment_119580156

Hi Citizen Six, thanks for the reply. do I only need the NC6 submitted for FIT? I thought that ESB Networks wanted them so they could have some knowledge of the level of export to the grid to ensure their grid can handle it so to speak

I had previously been a registered contractor but canceled it when I went to work for a company. I was debating about registering again so that I could start doing a few small jobs again

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580288#Comment_119580288

Always best to use separate strings when possible...

I'm no expert, I've used JA Solar 410w and Jinko 455w, my criteria was whatever panel maxes space and inverter

Never heard of ESB trying to install a SM once in receipt of a NC6. You switch to a D/N meter via your supplier and it's easy peasy, just a call to them and they take care of it.

Long read

Solar PV battery options — boards.ie - Now Ye're Talkin'

Shorter read

10kWh LifePO4 DIY Battery Addition..... Here is my write up. — boards.ie - Now Ye're Talkin'

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580191#Comment_119580191

I'm aware of that, which is why I asked. Not all electricians are registered.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580311#Comment_119580311

Yeah, you are supposed to let the ESB know that you are connecting a generator to the grid, and you also need the form to get FIT.

I used to be registered myself, but that was a long time ago. Regs are a lot tighter these days, in terms of needing to be registered for small jobs alright.

D.flynn

Am i right in saying that the first couple of steps in my plan should be as follows:

1. Select a panel type that would give me the best/most wattage for my roof space.
2. based on the supply voltage of the panels selected above, i can then select my hybrid inverter to match said voltage and wattage?
3. install (not that easy, i know 😊)

has anyone had success/good experiences with international (EU) suppliers ? or is it much of muchness to just stick with local ?

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580687#Comment_119580687

Get a trade account setup with midsummer or get in contact with solartricity,

Solartricity was who my installer users

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580687#Comment_119580687

Don't forget to check what the rules and regulations are in terms of what you need to do as well.

Places like solartricity will have package deals, but you can also swap stuff around on it. Friend of mine got stuff from them, but I had him return the firemans switch and the din rail meter that sits in the fuse board.

D.flynn

Thanks, those are the 2 i was looking at. @Citizen Six why did you return those particular components if i might ask?

Citizen Six

The cable run from panels to isolator and inverter was short, as they were located in the attic beside panel location. There's a max length specified where it's not necessary if less than that, but I'm not 100% sure what it is exactly. It's posted elsewhere in the main forum in one of the threads.

The inverter gives a reading of how much energy it generates, so no need for the separate meter at the board. But it's a requirement for the SEAI grant I believe.

Punchin A Keyboard

For what it's worth here is the seai installer guidance. https://www.seai.ie/publications/Code-of-Practice-Solar-PV-Grant.pdf big thanks to whomever posted it in a different thread

spose

“I had previously been a registered contractor but canceled it when I went to work for a company. I was debating about registering again so that I could start doing a few small jobs again”

id say you’d nearly get enough work from the diy gang here just signing nc6 forms and doing the inverter connections!

kabakuyu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580687#Comment_119580687

My sparks got a good price from CT in Galway in April, got panels, roof kit, micro inverters, and other bits and bobs.

D.flynn

Hey all,

I haven't done much on this in 2022, but am getting to it now.

A rental property I own is becoming vacant in the coming weeks so I'm taking the opportunity to get some panels on this first as the roof is more accessible and the installation would be easier because, in my infinite wisdom, I previously ran a 6mm2 twin and earth as well as multiple cat 5's between the distribution board and the attic space prior to converting it.

This kit will be purchased locally from CT's (Galway).

the roof on this property has 3 Velux windows installed, but keeping back 500mm from the edges of the roof, I am able to install 8 panels as follows:

2 rows of 3 panels in landscape orientation (beneath the Velux's)

2 between the Velux's.

The panels: Jinko Tiger Neo N-Type 420w Full Black (1722mm x 1134mm)

https://jinkosolarcdn.shwebspace.com/uploads/JKM400-420N-54HL4-B-F3-EN.pdf

does STC or NOCT apply to my situation ?

either way, am I correct in saying that on a single string (all on panels on the same roof space with no shading) , my max voltage would be 256.32V

what then are my criteria for the inverter? a single MPPT inverter capable of at least 256V and 3.36kWP ?

Definitely not installing a battery, but may futureproof with a hybrid if it doesn't cost too much more.

CT's supply the following inverters if someone can give any thoughts on them:

Standard: SMA SunnyBoy, Trannergy, Huawei

Hybrid: Huawei, Sunsynk, Sonnen

I may opt for these panels on my own property which i plan to have done by the summer, but not sure of my own inverter choice yet

Thanks in advance

Mr Q

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120210786#Comment_120210786

On the inverters SMA and Huawei will be much more expensive than Trannergy. Last year I contacted Kellihers electric in Waterford about SMA equipment and they actually only had one model size. They couldn't get any other versions or Sunny Islands they told me.

On the newer SMA inverters part of the software locks 10 hours after first powering the unit up so some changes can only be made if you have an SMA installer code. These are mostly related to the grid settings so you would be fine once you set these after powering up.

But they are well built and once running I have only had one minor recurring issue on one inverter that I eventually fixed.

I never owned any of the other two brands for comparison.

DC999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120215476#Comment_120215476

Huawei needs an installer code too to make changes to the inverter. But that code is available if doing DIY on it. Or an installer may give an account with more access, like an installer account.

Mr Q

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120216109#Comment_120216109

I have an installer account on my SMA's but depending on the year of the inverter some will lock the grid settings. Most of the other settings are available to me on the newest version (AV41), all on the older version (AV40)

SMA will sell me the code if I fill in a form and state I am an electrician, plus send them about €70.

D.flynn

Does anyone have any thoughts on a SAJ(H1-6K-S2) hybrid inverter versus Huawei(SUN6KTL-L1)?

there's a difference of €1600 when choosing between these (both with a 5kWh battery)

PCDub

Going down the DIY route and have bought 6 x 405 suntech panels and growatt 3.6kw standard inverter.

Before i start fitting them to the roof I was wondering do you have to inform your insurance company and will they accept diy install?

Also how easy or difficult will it be to get a sparks to connect the inverter to the consumer unit and set it up to feed into the grid?

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120250146#Comment_120250146

Insurance companies wont want to touch you I'd imagine. And sparks are hard to get to do a job, so can't see them certifying a job they didn't do, unless they are someone you know.

PCDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120254623#Comment_120254623

Cheers for the reply Citizen. So who wants to buy a few solar panels. :)

Just out of interest are professionally installed solar systems declared on house insurance?

I can use a couple of the panels I've bought to upgrade my small offgrid system but I'll hold fire on roof mounting them.

Might be posting in the for sale thread soon....

DC999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120254817#Comment_120254817

Yeah. I told house insurance company I got around 10 grand of solar and no change to cost of policy. I got an installer.

slave1

I simply increased the value of my home by current equipment and installation costs

jasgrif11

In the interest of sharing. I took two days off work to DIY install 14 x 405w panels on my south facing garage. I have a separate SEAI grant install of 16 panels taking place on Monday.

The hangers took 1.5 days to install. The panels themselves are essentially plug and play and all 14 took about 2.5 hours. I ended up configuring two strings and ran the cables into the roof space under the flashing next to the hanger.

I mounted a Sofar HYD 6000EP inverter and will post pics once I have the cabling completed. I’m cheekily hoping the commercial Solar installer will connect my DIY install to my consumer unit on Monday.

slave1

Super stuff, great to have a low roof like that to DIY tackle. I'd say the electrician will be fine with hooking you up if you're already paying him for what I assume is panels on the house. I see the dog was inspecting your work along the way so no issues on quality of DIY.

With 30 panels you're going big from the word go for sure, now we got to tempt you into filling the N part of that roof....

PCDub

That's a tidy install. My house is a bungalow so was thinking the DIY route to but will have to check with house insurance before commencing. I might also contact a few installers and see if they'll use my panels and reduce the cost a bit.

irishchris

Nice work and very tidy install. Looking forward to hearing how the official switch on day goes. Good choice of inverter too and recently added that to my DIY install and delighted with it compared to the solis.

D.flynn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120260286#Comment_120260286

Hi irishchris,

do you mind elaborating on the the inverter comparison? I'm just trying to figure out which inverter to go for

irishchris

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120263796#Comment_120263796

Both advertise 100a charging but Solis imo are disingenuous by advertising that as their inverter only sustains that for 15 minutes and drops to less than 70a. The 6kw EP sofar model sustains 100a charging and along with the massive heatsink rarely hits high temps compared to the solis which would regularly get high when charging.

Menus are intuitive in the sofar and allow a lot more configuration down to the particular months, days of week, times etc for charging and generally laid out much better.

Both offer decent pv input with the Solis allowing 8kw and the sofar 9kw

In reality the biggest reason between the two apart from those quick points are the sofar with true high charging for winter grid charging and early spring autumn pv charging where you only get short bursts of good weather to charge.

Solis mis-advertising 100a charging and nowhere in their adverts does it mention restricted to 100a and after contacting them they were adamant all other inverters do this. After installing a sunsynk recently for someone and now using my sofar I know this was yet another mistruth. Again above is all just my opinion from my particular setup and others will give their opinions on the above setups to help you decide on best route to go 👍

jasgrif11

I finally got everything powered on today, and what a day for the grand reveal. Seeing a combined 6kw from both systems at 10 am and 8kw at 12 pm. I had planned to complete all the wiring last Monday, but to my surprise, my Solar grant install vendor arrived at my house at 9 am with 8 people to do the 16-panel Solis installation (I have 16 panels grant install + 14 DIY install).

It's like poetry in motion watching 3 roofers with 1 labourer install all the required roof hangers and panels in 4 hours. The electricians took a lot longer as I wanted my inverter installed in my garage, which took a lot of routing cables etc.

Back to my DIY install. 

I set up all the trunking, and wired the Fireswitch, Spur and CT Clamps. The Solar vendor was very helpful when I asked them to install the MCB for the DIY installation.

Big thank you to @slave1 and @irishchris for help on some niggling issues.

I have spent the last 5 months telling my wife to only put on the washing machine and dryer after 11 pm to try to turn them on as much as possible during the day. Don't like seeing half the generation going out to the grid. Next up 16 X 200AH 3.2V Lifepo4 Batteries arriving end of March.

The addiction is real!

slave1

Just 16 batteries😜

jasgrif11

oh i’m sure another 32 cells will be a must, once I have the first 16 all figured out.

jasgrif11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120287522#Comment_120287522

Based on a total yield of 32kWh for today (admittedly it was a rather nice day) 10kWh DIY battery probably ain't going to cut it.

irishchris

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120286904#Comment_120286904

Nice one, looks excellent! Enjoy the power ☀️

Thespoofer

Just my own input. I'm at the 'planning/research' stage of DIY PV installation.

Got a quote few weeks back and it seems high to me.

Any tips on suppliers to diy installers ?, I contacted Solarcity recently about buying ground mounted frame and was told I need to be seai registered.

Also in regards to ground mounting, has anyone used those moulded plastic mounts ( you fill with ballast ) then fix panel to , as opposed to the frame type set up?

Thanks.

Jaymacc

Great work. Well done. How much were the materials for the DIY phase and how much was the second phase of work minus the grant?

jasgrif11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289664#Comment_120289664

€4700 for kit (14 x 405w panels, rails, hangers, flashing, cables, AC&DC isolator, connectors and fireswitch). Panels have gone up in price. I purchased the Sofar Inverter separately.

€10,200 for 16 x 380w panels installed with Solis Hybrid inverter (that includes grant discount)

Jaymacc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120290143#Comment_120290143

Great value. Well done. Look forward to the battery install.

D.flynn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289606#Comment_120289606

My plan was to go the DIY route, but in the end, there was only €2k in the difference between the installer i am going to use and DIY, so i opted to let them take on the hassle and get a certified installation.

With that said, my DIY system was to sourced as follows:

14 470 jinko panels from Failte solar €2755

Roofing materials from Kelliher electrics €1055 (chosen mailnly due to location as i could nip and get items if needed)

Sofar inverter €1337 Failte Solar

Sofar 10kWh GTX 3000 battery €4885 (EfficientHomeSolutions.ie)

All prices including vat

DC999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120300861#Comment_120300861

I did consider DIY and then saw the 6+ days the roofs and sparks needed (4 small roofs so was slow) to get us setup. IMHO, DIY is brill to extend once you’re setup as you know more. And can extend on a flat roof 1st floor or a shed or garden wall or….. (so don’t risk killing yourself on the main roof). Micro inverters and panels and away you go to extend the DIY. 

D.flynn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301260#Comment_120301260

my sentiments exactly. on that note, i have a quick hypothetical question for the group.

if i were to stick say 2 X 450W panels with microinverters on my shed and connect them directly to a 3Kw immersion, would this work (however slowly) ?

My little mind has been experimenting with installing a buffer tank with immersion heater to my oil heating system. Since i run my heating on demand (40-60 minutes here and there) i was thinking that energy from these few panels would be dedicated to heating the buffertank thus easing the pressure on my boiler to heat the system when needed.

I know my biggest issue here is around needing heat in winter Vs summer, but just throwing it out there for feedback

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120304283#Comment_120304283

Doesn't quite work like that, microinverters are generally grid tied and you can't just connect them to an immersion.

You could just connect them to your house and let them supplement your panels.

Although 2 450 w panels will barely make a dent in a buffer tank. As a 500L tank takes 25-30kwh to heat.. and that's not taking anything out of it!

slave1

agree with sentiments on DIY two storey roof installs, I'm not killing myself lifting those up that height or working at that height. My first (roof) install was contractor, second one at more ground level was DIY

D.flynn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120304331#Comment_120304331

Thanks for that. My next notion was to use the second heater output of an eddi for the buffer tank as i only need 1 output for my cylinder.

I realise i have to do actual calculations if i want to look into this further, just throwing it out there for now. My plan is to see how good the PV system and eddi perform for the first year(especially winter) before i look into it further.

Hellrazer

On the subject of micro inverters - are people using them plugged in to a wall socket or getting them run back to the consumer board?

Ive space on my shed for 4 panels - 2 East and 2 west and as someone said earlier this is addictive.

Also have space for another 6 panels ( possibly) on my extension in the garden but thats North Facing so not sure wheter to bother with that or not. But the shed would be a very easy diy - depending on what panels I could get I could add another 1.6kw plus to the system - is there such a thing as a 500 / 600 watt panel?

SouthWesterly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120304697#Comment_120304697

How does plugging them into a socket work? How do you avail of the power?

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120304836#Comment_120304836

In theory you can plug anywhere into your electrical circuit. I am not condoning this.