Legal query. Contracts

Zerotoninety

I tried to find a legal subsection but couldn't find one, so I apologise if I'm in the wrong place.

I'm trying to purchase an ipad from a well known company (pretty sure that I'm probably not allowed to name the company and it's not really relevant?).

This company sells both the product but it also provides the finance (in the form of a loan/credit agreement).

The cooling-off period for the product sold by this company is 31 days, however, the cooling off period of the credit agreement is 14 days.

Am I correct in thinking that I'm locked into the credit agreement after the 14 days, so the 31 day cooling off period for the product is irrelevant in my case?

I've tried to pin them down on this but their sales advisors don't appear to have a copy of the credit agreement T&C's (they're more expert on the physical products than on credit agreements).

The cooling off period is relevant as the product I'm buying is a gift and I won't see them until the end of September and should I need to back out, I need to make sure that I can.

Zerotoninety

Anybody?

Cabaal

You need to read any credit agreement prior to agreeing to it, you'd be foolish not to.

Zerotoninety

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119574798#Comment_119574798

I have but they keep arguing that their terms of purchase of the product (the ipad) is the overriding agreement. I.e. 31 days.

I'm literally about to bang my head off a brick wall with them.

ohnonotgmail

think of it this way. you have a 31 day cooling off period on the iPad (which seems quite generous to me and well beyond what they are required to provide) and a 14 day cooling off period on the finance. So if you change your mind in the 1st 14 days you return the item and the finance gets cancelled as well. If you return between 15 and 31 days you return the item and get refunded BUT the finance will still be in place. Unless they have an early cancellation clause in the finance contract you will have to keep paying the finance amount which will end up as more than the money you were refunded for the iPad.

Zerotoninety

I have 31 days from the date of receipt of the ipad to return it. However I only have 14 days from the date of signing the contract for the finance to purchase the ipad to back out of that.

It's doing my head in and it's like none of them bloody understand what I'm saying. I should just sign the damned agreement, buy the ipad and try to return it on day 15 lol. Then we'll see how well they know their own T&Cs

Zerotoninety

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119574957#Comment_119574957

That's exactly my point! I'm trying to explain it to them and they're like 'no but we honour our 31 day cooling off period' They don't appear to undertand that they're selling finance as well as a product. And I'm losing the will to live lol.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119574961#Comment_119574961

that would be a very silly thing to do. I'm sure the company knows its own T&Cs very well even if their frontline staff don't.

Zerotoninety

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119575077#Comment_119575077

`which is why I'm trying to speak to someone to get what they're selling put into writing.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119575256#Comment_119575256

ask them for a copy of the finance contract.

Zerotoninety

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119575260#Comment_119575260

I have. However when I try to clarify the terms in relation to the cooling off period they repeatedly assure me over the phone that it's 31 days while the credit agreement has a 14 day contract.

Zerotoninety

that should read that the credit agreement has a 14 day cooling off period

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119575273#Comment_119575273

well then it seems quite clear to me.

Zerotoninety

They can't seem to grasp that if they're selling me a product on finance that the terms of the finance agreement probably overrides their terms of purchase of the product.

Zerotoninety

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119575283#Comment_119575283

What's clear? 14 days or 31 days?

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119575297#Comment_119575297

I already explained it to you.

Purchase it closer to the end of the month?

Zerotoninety

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119575361#Comment_119575361

You don't need to explain picking a number. 14 or 31

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119575446#Comment_119575446

It is both. Both contracts are separate.

Zerotoninety

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119575401#Comment_119575401

I would never have thought of that.

Ah no. Seriously, they put through the credit agreement and then I added something to the credit agreement so they've already made 2 credit applications (one of which I have backed out of) so my credit rating is going to be damaged already so I want to ensure that I get it right.

Jim_Hodge

You are signing two different contracts. What's so hard to grasp?

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119575289#Comment_119575289

Are you dealing with the retail or finance department? The retail department is correctly telling you that the item has a 31 day return. What's messing you up is that the finance package isn't from the retail devision and that has a 14 day cooling off period.

The fact that you will be paying with their credit has no bearing on either deal to them, they are separate contracts from different departments.

Zerotoninety

I am aware of that. They however do not appear to be aware!

I don’t think the problem is at their end.

It seems clear you have two separate contracts which do not, and are not required to have the same cooling off period.

If you need the iPad for the end of the month, and less than 14 days is the shorter of the cooling off periods which is common to both, then a bit of lateral thinking should point to the best date on which to buy the iPad and sign the finance agreement so that both can be cancelled without you being out of pocket.

Zerotoninety

The problem is that they read out verbal terms and conditions to you (i.e. the 31 days) while you're on the phone but I only noticed the discrepancy when the credit agreement T&Cs were sent through for me to sign. You don't get a contract for the purchase of the product. They can't seem to understand that the credit agreement terms are at odds with how they sell the product.

Zerotoninety

If you can think of it like going into a phone shop and buying a new phone. They tell you that there's a 31 day cooling off period (which technically there is in my case) but part of your future bill is going to be repayments of the cost of the phone along with whatever data plan you sign up for. If, while you're in the phone shop, they're saying that you've a 31 day cooling off period for the purchase of the phone but the terms of the credit agreement (your bills) limit you to a maximum of 14 days cooling off period, isn't it essentially being missold?

Zerotoninety

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119575506#Comment_119575506

You don't sign two contracts. Just one credit agreement.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119576812#Comment_119576812

Clearly he means the contract to purchase the iPad and the separate contract related to finance.

Zerotoninety

My question is whether they can use a 31 day cooling off period as a selling point when they're selling you the product on a credit agreement which has terms which supercede that?

It would be straightforward if I was purchasing the ipad outright. In that case, Bob's my uncle, Fanny's my aunt, I have 31 days to 'cool' off. The problem is that they use the 31 day cooling off period as a selling point when in the case of contracts, it's utterly irrelevant as the overriding T&Cs are those of the credit agreement.

To me it's very obvious but it didn't occur to me until I was reading through the terms before signing. On about 5 occasions, they have reassured me that 31 days is the period they honour.

Is the finance agreement a condition of sale of the iPad?

Zerotoninety

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119575530#Comment_119575530

I'm dealing with the sales (retail) department.

Zerotoninety

You don't sign a contract for the purchase of the phone. The only contract you sign is the credit agreement.

Zerotoninety

I don't sign a contract when I purchase a loaf of bread. The only written contract is the Credit Agreement.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119576921#Comment_119576921

The purchase of the iPad is a separate contract to the finance. Are the shop requiring you to take out finance? Will they refuse to sell you the iPad if you don’t?

walterking

Oh boy.

I really pity retail workers who have to deal with this type of crap

Zerotoninety

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119576937#Comment_119576937

No. It's the same as any with any phone provider. You buy the phone 'on contract'. They are acting as the lender as well as being in the business of selling ipads.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119576954#Comment_119576954

But the finance is a second contract, and not a condition of sale of the first (purchase of the phone). So, why do you think they should have the same terms?

Zerotoninety

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119576966#Comment_119576966

Because I clarified (attempted to) it with them 5 times now and they have repeatedly told me that it doesn't matter what's in the contract because they honour the 31 day cooling off period. To be fair, they're not geniuses.

Zerotoninety

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119576966#Comment_119576966

Also, they 'sell' you the ipad with a hard sell on the 31 day cooling off period.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119576973#Comment_119576973

I really feel sorry for retail staff sometimes.

Zerotoninety

Also, if they're selling you something on finance, then it's misleading to sell you terms which are not applicable.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119576986#Comment_119576986

Ipad: Buy it, cooling off period 31 days.

Finance: Take it out, cooling off period 14 days.

Two separate contracts, two different cooling off periods, purchase of the iPad is not dependent on you financing it with them. So you either agree to the terms, or buy somewhere else. The terms of the contracts do not have to be identical.

Zerotoninety

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119577008#Comment_119577008

One contract and the same company provides the loan as provides the ipad.

walterking

Troll alert

Zerotoninety

You have a statutory right to 14 days cooling off period on any credit agreement. They sell you the ipad with as I call it the hard sell on the 31 day cooling off period which in fact you DO NOT HAVE.

Dodge

Why are you asking for advice if you’re so sure of everything?

Zerotoninety

Ok, to try to make you understand, it's like you're buying a car and the lady selling you the car is also your bank manager.

Dodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119577025#Comment_119577025

Ah. I see

Zerotoninety

They've sent me a link through today but I'm not sure whether I'm allowed to post it as it obviously names the company?

Part of it states this

Changed your mind?

Don't worry, if you change your mind about your new device or accessory, just let us know within 31 days of it being delivered.

For a full refund of any payments you've made, return it in its original condition, within 14 days. If you return it after then, we'll cancel your refund and your credit agreement and monthly device or accessory payments will carry on.

Want to cancel your credit agreement but keep your device or accessory? You’ll need to pay off your remaining credit agreement balance in full.

Zerotoninety

The terms of the credit agreement however explicitly specify 14 days.

Zerotoninety

They seem to think that this bit explicitly states that 31 days is what is honoured when it states the bloody opposite!