Third Secretary Campaign 2022

ShatterResistant

Interview done today. Four out five competencies I was happy with, had an absolute mare for Specialist Knowledge and Expertise though. I interpreted it as examples of how you are a person with expertise knowledge in your current area and prepared on that basis, but it was exclusively a test of knowledge on current issues in International Development, what you see as important trends, what the role will entail in depth etc. I had prepared a bit on this, but coming from a non-ID background you would want to have a lot of research/opinion to do well in it. No surprise at all in hindsight, I can't say it was in any way unfair, but likely puts me out of the running - some advice to bare in mind for those yet to interview.

agoodusername

I have an interview date in June for Third Secretary, précis score in the high 30s

lucat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630206#Comment_120630206

Had they called another "batch" before you?

UnderHeaven

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120636057#Comment_120636057

I have the same question. There is a message earlier in the thread that hints at it but not 100% sure. I got 37 and got the interview call, language test done too. Not overly stressed but because of work I can't really leave before January. Good luck to everyone in this round!

agoodusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120636057#Comment_120636057

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120637718#Comment_120637718

A friend of a friend got an interview a while back with a score of 40. I'm assuming that we're the third batch? Based on a quick LinkedIn search, she either didn't pass the interview or is still waiting for her place on the oom.

lucat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120638188#Comment_120638188

I didn't do the Third Sec last year (although now I wish I had)! It's interesting that they're calling 3 batches, possibly more. I doubt it will be the same for the DSO as there are fewer jobs, but it's encouraging.

ShatterResistant

Got result from DSO interview today, failed on Specialist Knowledge as expected, and on Drive, Commitment and Motivation to the Role, which is fair in hindsight - happy with scores across the other four competencies. I think they're very conscious of people trying to shoehorn themselves into DFA, the lack of a significant international development education/work component on the CV was a significant lacuna in the interview - the clue is in the name I suppose, Development Specialist Officer!

Lean ar aghaidh.

UnderHeaven

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120638188#Comment_120638188

Thanks for the info. Seems like from start to finish the 3rd sec process can take up to two years. Getting on the panel is no guarantee you will land a job, all very confusing for someone who has no experience with the civil service. I wonder if anyone who has started can give us some insight. I will be down around 40% after tax if I take it and I've heard there are delays in HQ for postings of up to 4 years. Seems very different compared with the days you'd be on post after a year or so and many people became second sec after 2 years. Now there aren't many second secs and the jump to first sec seems to take a while. Reading the policy documents like Global Ireland and stuff it seems there is a bit of a pivot and definitely a massive expansion in the DFA going on. Interesting time to join for sure.

Singleissueuser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120637718#Comment_120637718

How did you find the language test? I'm going to take it this weekend.

HadjiMurat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120640084#Comment_120640084

Hard luck! Failed on Leadership Potential myself, which I thought would be one of my strongest competencies pre-interview. I could tell that the interviewer for that competency was not impressed by my examples.

If it's any consolation I have international development education and highly relevant work experience, including visits to projects in developing countries funded by the Irish government.

Placed in top 15 in stage 1 and scored 46 in the precis, which were both well beyond my expectations after comically bad results in the online tests for the Third Secretary campaign. My mistake this time was not giving enough attention to examples for some of the competencies while preparing. I spent a lot of time reviewing the 3 policy documents they recommended reading, in particular 'A Better World'. I was not asked any questions in the interview on Ireland's Overseas Development Assistance. For context, I placed 15 on an OOM in the Development Specialist Intern competition of 2022, (stayed with current employer due to better job security). I should have placed higher, but I flopped on questions related to 'A Better World'. Hence, I went into overdrive on knowing that document inside out this time around. My feeling is that a good few of those hired as Development Specialist Interns in 2022 will be hired as DSOs as an outcome of this competition.

delricyo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120641556#Comment_120641556

As 3rd Secs are AO equivalent and First Secs are AP equivalent, there is no second secretary grade in the DFA

lucat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120642556#Comment_120642556

This is a terrible idea for diplomatic protocol, where it's crucial that meeting counterparts be at equivalent levels in the diplomatic hierarchy as much as possible. So it would only make sense to eliminate the 2nd Sec role if this elimination is happening globally, but it's only happening in Ireland as far as I can tell. In other countries 2nd Secs are still very common and are considered middle management. First Secs would be more like upper management. I suppose we'd think of that as being AP and PO.

exitstageleft

Officially, 3rd Secretaries become 2nd Secretaries on posting. They then revert been to 3rd Secretaries when back in HQ.

UnderHeaven

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120642859#Comment_120642859

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120642556#Comment_120642556

Makes sense, I was getting conflicting information but I think I saw a few listed in linkedIn.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120641748#Comment_120641748

It is a 40 question multiple choice, I think it is a good measure of level because I landed right where I did in the official tests. It wasn't stressful or anything.

SavageSpuds

Was anyone else who was invited for interview in this June round asked to submit another application form?

anon120222

For anyone who has been successful in previous TS (or any civil service job I guess), what does the clearance process look like? What documents are required? For the police clearance, are there DFA forma that must be sent to the relevant jurisdictions, or what does that look like?

I was successful in the recent DSO interviews and place quite highly on the panel. I've lived in a few oscure places for longer than 6 months so I'd like to get the ball rolling as I expect gather the relevant police clearances might take a while....

Leyendecker

Anyone know how many people are on the panel for DSO?

lucat

They make the Garda clearance application for you, you don't do it yourself.

UnderHeaven

Hi guys, does anyone who had to redo the Third Sec application know about the Limerick/Dublin jobs? I always thought Limerick was Irish Aid, anyone any info on that?

readoutloud

Limerick is mainly Development Cooperation and Africa Division (DCAD/Irish Aid). There might be a few bits of other units there too. This division predominantly has Development Specialist Officers (DSO) rather than Third Secs.

I believe previous departmental policy mandated that all new Third Secs start in Dublin (for thorough indoctrination!). This may have changed now since at least one Third Sec from the latest campaign has started in Limerick.

You'd imagine that anyone requesting a Limerick posting would have to be in DCAD and there would have to be an opening in a willing unit there.

HadjiMurat

Do people know what other competitions the DFA runs? (Similar to Third Sec/DSO). I have seen some LinkedIn DFA bios with 'Desk Officer' as the job title. I don't know if that's a different competition.

Given the low starting salary, the DFA door will be shut for me by early 2024. Hoping that there's one more competition between now and then.

agoodusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120682883#Comment_120682883

There are internships in the DFA, they were advertised quite recently so you'll probably be waiting until 2024. There are also graduate policy officer roles, I've seen a couple of postings on the Permrep website for them.

The department also has COs, EOs and AOs that come from the normal competitions, but they aren't diplomats. If you look at the AP threads here, there are first secs recruited in open competitions, but it's a very small number.

readoutloud

Desk Officer isn't a grade but a role description. It's usually carried out by a Third Secretary or Development Specialist Officer who is covering a certain geographic or thematic area or "desk".

dory

Desk officer could also be an intern, someone on secondment or JPI (although that role is gone I believe). I've seen people of all grades use that title.

anon120222

For anyone who has gone through the clearance process before, I understand you need to provide police disclosures for any country you have lived in for more than 6 months. I haven't been called yet, but I hope it won't be long.

I've lived in 4 countries outside Ireland so I guess I will need to get it for all them.

How do you obtain them? I expect this part of the process will take a while so I'd love to get the ball rolling from my side ASAP instead of waiting for PAS...

BigElmo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120710737#Comment_120710737

This part is up to you to do independently. You should start it right away before your actual clearance request starts. Ask PAS for guidance on this now if you can't find their guidelines online.

anon120222

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120711242#Comment_120711242

Thanks for this sound advice ! It's gonna cost me €200+ to obtain one of them so I wanted to make sure I wasn't jumping the gun.. :(

BigElmo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120712992#Comment_120712992

Not junping the gun much as you'll need this for almost any civil service job. The foreign certificates will remain valid to PAS unless you return to live in one of those countries again.

tlcsde1092

Results are out for the third batch of interviews.

Does anyone have any insight into how many who made the panel in this round are likely to be called?

readoutloud

I'd expect everyone who made the panel to get called.