Politicians who are Landlords

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119566488#Comment_119566488

Its about 3% of the population who are landlords. Less than that if you exclude people who barely count, like those who rent a spare room to a student for part of the year

Already, the Dail,are unrepresentative given that 25% of TDs are landlords

Your last question, loads of places force elected officials and civil servants to 'recuse' themselves if they have a conflict of interest. Its not just a matter of declaring your interests, you have to recuse yourself from decisions where you have a conflict of interest.

It's a matter of integrity and standards in public office.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119566359#Comment_119566359

Statistics are misleading here.

If you believe the real crisis is the lack of landlords, then you've been sold a pup unfortunately. If there were enough houses being built, lots of people currently renting, would have moved out into their own homes by now.

There are hundreds of thousands of people who'd love to buy a home to live in, but the supply is so restricted that they are stuck renting at crazy rental prices

The solution to the property crisis is to build more houses, but if you're a landlord, you like the high rents, and building more houses will cause rents to fall, and the increased in house prices to slow down

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119566307#Comment_119566307

If anyone can become a TD, why are half of the TDs millionaires?

There would be a much more diverse demographic spread of TDs if it was possible for anyone to become a TD.

I don't have an objection to having professional politicians who make a career out of it. They will almost inevitably become corrupted in some ways, which is why we need oversight that reigns in the power of the government and keeps them somewhat representative

Akrasia

6 billion government surplus this year.

6 billion would build 50,000 houses

50,000 houses would house about 150,000 people

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119566711#Comment_119566711

Violet Anne and others have proved that anyone can become a TD

Yiu don’t need a degree or a Masters etc

The fact is a lot of TD are also highly educated like Violet Anne so they make good business decisions.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119566777#Comment_119566777

I don't know about that, Violet Anne isn't just anyone. She's a very special type of character. She got elected as a total fluke, Sinn Fein were a rising star and ran candidates in every constituency but didn't bother properly vetting them. Violet Anne got elected as a protest vote because she was a Sinn Fein candidate. She's since left the party

We'll see what happens to her at the next election. I doubt she'll be re-elected, hopefully not as it would indicate that her fringe views on vaccines and conspiracy theories are becoming entrenched in Clare.

Turkeys don't vote for Xmas.....very naive to believe landlords profiting off a housing crisis will vote to end it

PeadarCo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119566671#Comment_119566671

Why are the statistics misleading? The fact is small scale landlords are leaving the market. The exact type of landlord TDs tend to be. The fact that there is a mass exodus of this type of landlord from the rental market despite record rents tells you how anti landlord the government has been over the last decade. Government ministers/TDs in the Dail in general being landlords hasn't benefited small scale landlords one bit. Also changing the tax bands on rent will have minimal impact as its obvious increased returns hasn't stopped the exodus.

I appreciate there are still larger property holders in the rental market but the bigger company's are ultimately funded by pension funds who want above inflation returns and have a investment horizon of 30 40 years. And the people who benefit from pensions are anyone with a private pension in Ireland. So going by your logic anyone with a private sector pension shouldn't be allowed be a TD.

The reason we have a housing crisis is due to NIMBYs opposing housing developments in any remotely built up area. Its something TDs of all parties pander to. Politicians of all stripes will say they support building more houses but will also support objections to new developments due to the fear of losing votes from a group of well organised NIMBYs. Senior politicians in every major party SF,FG,FF etc have been vocal at some point in opposing new housing/apartment developments in their local area over the last few years. Landlords are the handy scapegoat, a distraction that enables people to ignore the issues presented by placating NIMBYs.

Another problem speaking as a person who is renting is that most of the vocal people when it comes to the rental market are home owners who while well meaning are clueless out what they are talking about. A perfect example was Threshold campaigning to get rid of bedsits. Lovely idea in theory but ultimately its damaged the rental market. Bedsits still exist but they are now called house shares. Getting rid of formal bedsits just reduced the supply.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119566218#Comment_119566218

That's the problem. They've shown the can get 'forgetful'.

We had a doctor as minister for health, it made no difference.

Its no accident we are in a crisis for over a decade and the 1 in 4 landlord government create policy that favour property investors.

While we need landlords because of the fix we are in we should be at least trying to move away from legislators using a need to make themselves profits.

Sam Russell

The reason small, accidental, landlords are selling up is because the houses that were suffering from depressed prices are now at very high prices.

Accidental landlords were forced to let their homes because the value was below their purchase price and they would suffer a loss - sometime more than their equity, meaning they would owe money and have nothing to show for it. Other small landlords can see the prospects changing and now is the time to quit while they are hugely ahead.

rock22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119565409#Comment_119565409

But that was not the suggestion. The suggestion was that the Taoiseach would refrain from appointing landlords to cabinet. No problem with landlords as TD's. If anyone wants to stand as a Landlord.

Here is the original post

"It would be reasonable to ask the Taoiseach ( and incoming Taoiseach) not to appoint any landlord to cabinet while this housing crisis continues.

It is impossible for anyone, including landlords, to act against their own interests in government. It is clear that this housing crisis has continued this long because every reasonable suggestion to help solve it has been resisted by this and the previous government.

SO, no problem being a TD and landlord but no input into government decisions around housing"

There clearly is an unprecedented housing crisis and this government has resisted all suggestions to protect tenants. In those circumstances it is not unreasonable to conclude that the landlords in the government don't want the plight of tenants addressed. A commitment from an incoming Taoiseach that no landlords will be appointed to the cabinet would signal a new commitment to solving this crisis.

Varik

Two things.

Even if all/most/many LL leaving were accidental, we'd still need a large number of new LL entering the market which we don't have. Even though rents are so high, and being a LL is apparently so easy. We're meant to believe that we don't have a load of new LL entering market to profit out of some corporate politeness as to not effect the profits of others.

It really is weird that LL are over represented among TDs compared to the general population isn't it. Maybe the fact they earn 2.5x the median wage might have something to do with that. A lot easier to invest and build your wealth up when you're getting 60K more than the average person.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119568437#Comment_119568437

Its not right to profit off a crisis you are supposed to be tackling. It's just not.

It would be very easy for a new minister to step away from their housing investments or being a landlord for a term. Everybody choosing to run for office could be well prepared in advance.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119568437#Comment_119568437

I suggested a possible reason in an earlier post for the over representation of politicians in the landlord business.

As you say they have access to extra money and it is a business that can easily be run in tandem with their political career.

Just invest the capital and use an agent to do the day to day running of the business.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119570001#Comment_119570001

Seeing as the housing investments involve bricks and mortar and tenants how would stepping away work?

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119568376#Comment_119568376

....speechless

I think its utter nonsense.....this Govt and previous Govts have indeed resisted all attempts to solve the problem

And one of the ways they did this was by setting up a system where landlords cannot lawfully remove delinquent tenants in a timely fashion

18 months min if a tenant digs their heels in (and a hell of a lot longer if any i or t isn't dotted or crossed) ....no feasible way of pursuing for property damage (at least one that will get you money to fix replace and not cost you for a hollow moral victory)

I suppose it was attacking tenants in a way by making it too risky to rent to them....

Restoration of fair play might go a long way to helping.....

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119570331#Comment_119570331

That would be their problem. If going in to politics they should prepare.

I can't see it ever happening, but I think during a crisis its an idea.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119570926#Comment_119570926

I think if you are proposing something you might at least have some idea how it might work.

How would someone prepare on entering politics?

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119570926#Comment_119570926

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119570001#Comment_119570001

In reality the party making the biggest profit off the housing crisis is Sinn Fein

As we all know it is not in Sinn Feins interest for housing to be resolved because come next election if it is then the government parties will win more seats/votes. You might make excuses for SF record in DCC but they managed to end up with 1300 less units than when they took over.

Do you disagree with them constantly blocking houses to make the housing crisis worse so they will get more votes and the ultimate prise they hope and government?

walterking

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119560625#Comment_119560625

That's a daily mail type gutter response and most likely a sf/IRA type response.

Did you check his "11 properties"

One house that is divided into 4 individual lets is regarded as "4" another divided into 3 is regarded as "3". Both co-owned

One that he has is a cheap over the shop flat in bally go backwards.

Another is a cheap basic house in Mullingar.

Yes he's earning a few bob from them, but it's hardly a big property empire.

I've two holiday homes. They have 3 self contained ensuite rooms with workspace. I rent them as individual rooms on airbnb.

Seems I now own 7 properties including my main home using this calculation.

Laughable

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119571512#Comment_119571512

Not my problem. Sell, pass on. If you want to enter politics, no conflicts of interest with housing during a housing crisis.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119571680#Comment_119571680

I think you'll find thats what we are living through. Did you not follow the Troy story?

As you know the 1300 less was due to tenant purchase and demolishing social housing flat complexes, started by FF's regeneration scam. Also DCC several years ago is a drop in the ocean of the over a decade record breaking housing crisis.

Manach

To place this in context, there are many TDs who are lawyers. The law around ownership and renting is perhaps one of the most complex and arcane, perfect gist for lawyers. So perhaps having that profession craft decisions that benefit their society is a far more worrying issue.

i dont see how any prohibition on any specific legal activity could be workable

but i think that the interests held by top level elected officials should not only be available, i think that they should be consistently front and centre in any analysis of the decisions they make and the work they do in and out of the dail

we dont hold our legislators to a sufficient standard and the idea that they should be left to act legally but with clear opposing personal interests to the majority of the country is setting the bar far far too low imo

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119571925#Comment_119571925

Clearly not your problem as you are not going into politics.

If they sell they may make a loss depending on the market.

Also making their tenants homeless.

Seems a bit extreme for being in a business that provides an essential service especially when they might not even get elected.

Don't know what "pass on" means.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119571949#Comment_119571949

Exactly, one could keep going with this nonsense......

Give up properties before you go into politics🤔

Front and center declaration beforehand so people can see your hand and consequences for not doing it, fine.......

Anything else nonsensical childish populist claptrap imo

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119572082#Comment_119572082

The would-be politician having to shed property interests would be a problem for them. I think a politician pushing legislation to fill his own pockets is a national problem.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119572117#Comment_119572117

Indeed. When we aren't in a housing crisis we could revisit it. I've a feeling, like health, they are happy to leave a crisis as the norm.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119572166#Comment_119572166

Just to be clear I'm saying it's unworkable and shouldnt happen

Full transparent declaration of interests and severe automatitic consequences for not doing so yes (perhaps evrn whe you run)....have to give up property if you wish to go for election ....no, silly idea regardless of our proximity to a housing crisis.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119572208#Comment_119572208

Don't we have similar already in place but they forget about property and merely have to correct the record?

Just an idea, but its completely doable.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119572325#Comment_119572325

Nope, we don't have actual consequences for not having a correct record, Id have no problem with that being strengthened (for conflict of interest reasons)

We don't have consequences beyond what party decides is expedient/necessary afaics

I don't agree however with any necessity to give up property if you want to be elected however (regardless of property crises)....I'd be of the opinion that's moronic.

the_syco

Question for those that opposed politicians being landlords; if they have to move to another location for a undetermined amount of time, should they leave their house empty, as they may have to go back there in the future if their political dreams bare no fruit?

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119572390#Comment_119572390

I agree with you. If they were held accountable there'd likely not be a problem. Currently its pretty much an honour system.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119572427#Comment_119572427

Many of them have a home in their county and an apartment in Dublin.

There's a difference between renting out your house and having several properties and pushing for legislation to help fill your pockets.

Its a concern that policy might be getting set for selfish needs.

In the states:

According to the 1978 Ethics in Government Act, all high-ranking federal officials are required to disclose their financial holdings and recuse themselves from any government business in which they, their families or close associates have a financial interest.

Good loser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119566736#Comment_119566736

Wrong there. 6 billion would build 18,000 houses at 330,000 a pop. Or 12,000 at a more realistic 500,000.

But that money must fund all Govt services - social welfare, education, health service, debt repayments, wage increases to public services, energy subsidies, fixing mica and pyrite houses and on and on and on.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119571925#Comment_119571925

Didnt answer the question?

You are complaining about TDs yet we have an entire party benefiting from the housing crisis, is that right?

Should we not focus our attention on that

rock22

duplicate deleted

rock22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119560424#Comment_119560424

Nothing in the suggestion stops TD's remaining as landlords.

The suggestion is that, while the housing crisis remains, no landlords are appointed to government

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119572652#Comment_119572652

Can't really ask a TD not to be a LL while the crisis is ongoing and then swap back

Otherwise they will end up transferring properties to family etc and even shadier

This is simple, the TD's adhere to the rules. They declare properties. That's it.

But we should also make all political parties declare their property portfolios home and abroad. You can't expect TD's to constantly get hammered and then not have similar rules for parties?

Surely,the obvious solution is have a blind trust run by the star, look after potential areas of conflict interest

Jimmy carter,famously put his peanut farm into one upon becoming president.....

.the same folks who will tell you TDs are super duper busy,also think that it's ok for a TD to be tending to their rather excessive property portfolio aswell as being a TD,such disingenuous rubbish,and acceptance of erosion of standards is mind boggling tbh

Seth Brundle

Not sure why people want to over-complicate what should be a simple process.

Politicians need to be clear about their business interests with limited scope for change and appropriate punishments for entering (or not) misleading information.

Politicians should also be clear when lobbying for a particular change whether or not they have a vested interest in said change e.g. requesting certain social welfare payments only be made through post offices when you are the owner of a post office.

We don't need to reinvent the wheel. We just need our TDs to be transparent and appropriate punishments if they are not

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573568#Comment_119573568

Agree...a zero tolerance set of regulations. Default/defraud/Forget...no excuse.

When you have the actual legislators refusing SIPO actual powers over a number of years and party leaders backslapping and praising those found to be in default, alarm bells should be rigng.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573568#Comment_119573568

The same rules need to apply to political parties.

We have parties owning 80 properties, and channelling vast amounts of money through other jurisdictions, none of which is monitored by SIPO. Better regulation is needed in this area too, as the opportunities for corruption are far greater. A party official taking a donation in the UK for the Northern Ireland branch of the party which translates into favour in Dublin is something that SIPO couldn't even look into.

rock22

But a Taoiseach would surely realise the potential conflict of interest and appoint TD's to government who are not Landlords. Those TD's who are landlords can continue as they are.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573928#Comment_119573928

There is no problem in having a landlord in government - in fact it could be a good thing in some ways. The problem is some TDs not being legally compliant (either with SIPO or with other state bodies e.g. RTB) and/or lobbying for changes that will benefit them directly in their capacity as landlord.

rock22

But that lobbying can go on behind closed doors when the lobbyist and decision maker is one and the same .

The problem is that the government, and the previous government, has resisted any serious attempt to alleviate the difficulties facing tenants, such as security of tenure and rent caps. It is hard to avoid the reality that, with so many landlords in government, there is no real desire to solve this problem.

A new Taoiseach , could show he is seriously tackling the problem by ensuring that the government is made up of people who have nothing to gain by evicting tenants or increasing rents. A new Taoiseach has to choose a new cabinet ( with the proviso that the coalition partners have an input) so this could be one criteria in that choice.

I don't expect it to happen. But it would certainly be a positive signal of intent

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119572600#Comment_119572600

While I don't speak for or support any party, I do disagree with them blocking housing just to make the housing crisis worse. If I ever see that kind of behaviour I'd condemn it.

I'm more interested in the problem we have with government ministers pushing legislation that benefits themselves or politicians of any stripe blocking builds for selfish reasons, such as constituents property values.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573982#Comment_119573982

It all goes back to a lack of accountability. 'Lessons learned' is a mere catchphrase.

.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119566550#Comment_119566550

Your last question, loads of places force elected officials and civil servants to 'recuse' themselves if they have a conflict of interest. Its not just a matter of declaring your interests, you have to recuse yourself from decisions where you have a conflict of interest.

It's a matter of integrity and standards in public office.

Yet none of them forbids landlords from becoming politicians.

I am always wary of people asking our own political system to do something nowhere else does. Normally because it would be unworkable, populist and probably unconstitutional.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119574776#Comment_119574776

I find it strange that people are so hung up on TD's been LL yet they seem to have no interest in political parties and sharing full details.

Why shouldn't all political parties have to open their entire books? what properties they own in Ireland and abroad etc etc

It would be better to start at the top and then move down to TD's if still an issue with the TD's not declaring

rock22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119574776#Comment_119574776

But nobody is suggesting that landlords be forbidden from becoming politicians

Perhaps you need to reread the post again. It was that the Taoiseach should not appoint landlords to government posts during this housing crisis.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119574929#Comment_119574929

Accountabilty is what we need. Doesn't matter what a TD does.

All we need to know is that it is declared and if it isn't, proper accountability is imposed...not a slap on the back telling you that you are 'top class'.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119575136#Comment_119575136

It shows the attitude. Its only wrong if they can make political mileage out of it.