Electric Ireland raising prices again, where will it stop?

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119557573#Comment_119557573

Why would any greenie want nuclear?

https://app.electricitymaps.com/map

Just bear in mind that curently a lot of France's nuclear capacity is offline for repairs after 30 years of zero CO2 service, and yet even in abject failure mode, they deliver.

I am very doubtful about the veracity of the Irish data, because it is supposed to be live, yet the Eirgrid dashboard shows a different picture, so it is probably far worse in reality if the French data is more accurate:

Graces7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119559789#Comment_119559789

Sounds great! I always saw electricity as more costly than electricty for cooking etc. And as Isaid, one E30 bottle lasts at least three months for all cooking, hot drinks, hot water bottles etc. So around E2.50 a week.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119559868#Comment_119559868

Watch the prices continue to rise then until you can’t afford them.

Graces7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119559938#Comment_119559938

Well being a pensioner? We get help. Thankfully. I am not supporting price rises just that in reality there is nothing we can do about it. Making a protest is not going to achieve anything. We have to adapt? I use every little anyways; warm clothes etc,. heat one room in winter. And I cook with bottled gas etc.

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119559924#Comment_119559924

The standard 11kg drum does not necessarily work out as cheaper than electric. Though the price of them hasn't risen as fast as electricity so they are probably fairly similar now. The last drum of gas I bought was 34 quid a few weeks ago

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119559921#Comment_119559921

Nuclear waste coming to a townland near you, yay!

Oh wait, that'll never happen (for a long, , LONG, LONGGGG list of reasons)

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119560444#Comment_119560444

Nuclear wast is not a problem and never has been. It's blank ammunition you and your ilk like to fire off in frustrated rage when you are scraping the bottom of the barrel for ideas and objections.

Strumms

Company up north have announced a serious increase in prices, over 34%…

several reasons as to why but the demand, every increasing heavy upscale in demand is one.

It’s predicted an increase in water charges will follow.

tjhook

I'd like to see the government ban these contracts that tie consumers to their provider for a year. It's fine if the price is set, but this "X% off our standard charge" lark means they have a captive market and can do what they want with prices.

What we see is providers leapfrogging eachother. The provider that has a good price today will be one of the most expensive tomorrow, and anybody who takes the cheap price today is stuck with them.

If people were free to move, competition might be better. Obviously that's not the root cause of the current high prices, but I'm not sure we're seeing real competition - e.g. the increases in standing charges, which are completely unrelated to energy prices.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119560502#Comment_119560502

Strange why the likes of Finland are spending several billion to solve their waste problem if, as you say, it's not a problem

Hodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119559868#Comment_119559868

Very defeatist mindset, if people thought that way when the FG / Lab government brought in water charges we would still have water charges only for the large successful protests back 2014 and 2015 which forced a u turn on the water charges, if there had of being no protests back then; water charges would be another rising expense here now in the present cost of living crisis.

September 24th there is a national day of protest in Dublin organised by the cost of living just days before the budget, I will make it my business to attend that day .

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119560502#Comment_119560502

When did nuclear waste find a solution? It is a problem with many older storage facilities decaying

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119560723#Comment_119560723

You do understand their running costs go up too as a result of increased energy prices? So standing charges rising is related to energy prices directly and indirectly

tjhook

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119560795#Comment_119560795

Certainly, Bord Gais have the same opinion:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/bord-gais-move-to-push-its-standing-charge-to-300-is-price-gouging-41456013.html

For sure it's a factor, but only part of the story I think.

I'd be interested to see how much the wholesale standing charges have increased - I would be surprised if (for example) Flogas is itself maintaining any of the nation's electricity infrastructure. It must be a charge passed on by ESB. I can't find figures on how wholesale standing charges have changed, but I've seen a number of reports that the standing charge for consumers has increased as much as the energy unit rates. Surely not all the costs of energy supply are rising as quickly as energy itself?

Bord Gais say above "You will note that the standing charge varies per supplier and is subject to the competitive pressures in the market". I think competition is stunted when consumers are tied to year-long contracts that allow full flexibility for the producer to increase prices, and little for the consumer to move to another provider.

Edited to add: It looks like changes to wholesale standing charges generally come into force in October each year. IF so, it's unlikely that the cost of supply is driving up prices. From the CRU factsheet:

"The CRU undertakes multi-year revenue reviews known as “Price Controls” or “Price Reviews” for EirGrid and ESB Networks in electricity, and GNI in gas. These revenue reviews consider the efficient costs of any essential development of the electricity or gas network infrastructure, as well as maintaining and operating these networks. On the basis of five-yearly revenue controls, the CRU approves the level of charges that the network operators may levy users including suppliers.

Changes to the approved charges generally come into effect on the 1st of October annually."

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119560784#Comment_119560784

It's not a serious problem because all nuclear plants have been able to long-finger the issue, and in some cases that has been ongoing for half a century. Had it actually been a serious issue, it would have been dealt with rapidly.

The final solution for nuclear waste - of all activity levels from medical to plutonium - was invented by Australia's CSIRO in around 1978, in a process they call Synroc. It involves incorporating powdered nuclear waste in a synthetic rock of near identical chemical composition to natural rocks, some of which are 2.5 billion years extant without decomposition.

Water can not leach radioactive components out of Synroc, a process that was selected by Argone National laboratory in the US to deal with plutonium waste and in the UK at Sellafield. It's used in Australia for nuclear medical waste.

In many places on Earth, there are substantial thick layers of salt from ancient seas that dried up. These have been geologically stable for hundreds of millions of years, deep below the surface. This salt is so uniform in structure and free from faults, fissures, etc, that it is utterly impermeable to the point salt caverns are used to store hydrogen. If hydrogen molecules can't get out, a lump of solid Synroc certainly won't, either.

In the Netherlands, I believe they have created gas storage caverns in salt that are at a depth of some 3.6 km. So you drill boreholes down into the salt and lower your synroc slugs down and then backfill. Or possibly even cheaper, you use hot water to create a cavern, as is done for gas, allowing you to deposit a lot more waste down a single shaft. A slug of Synrock the size and shape of a can of soup could contain all of the nuclear waste created from geenerating all of the energy a single person uses in their lifetime.

I believe there is a US company that also came up with this borehole idea and is marketing it as a nuclear waste solution, though not even with the Synroc safety angle.

Nuclear waste easily and safely put away somewhere it is likely to be stable and isolated for at least many hundreds of millions of years, if not billions.

Not a single person has been killed by nuclear waste. How is it that people go into such hysterics over something that benign?

It's not a real technical problem, it's a political one.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119560964#Comment_119560964

Not a single person has died from nuclear waste! I think you should reevaluate that view because many people have died of cancers from nuclear waste. Just because a threat is not addressed does not mean it is not a serious issue. There are tons of contaminated sites of all sorts that have never been addressed while full knowledge of the dangers were/are known. There are a few islands in the south pacific that will counter the points you have made here.

They haven't addressed nuclear waste even if there is a believed method it isn't used so the issue remains.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119561010#Comment_119561010

A link, please for these people who have died from cancers caused by nuclear waste?

The nuclear test sites in the Pacific have nothing whatsoever to do with nuclear power plants or the waste from them, it's just mindless and ignorant whataboutism that highlights why the issue is political.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119560782#Comment_119560782

Metered water charges were one service charge that actually makes sense.

Campaigning against these was the height of self inflicted stupidity. And was only an agenda pushed by parties seeking to boost their popular vote.

lumphammer2

It is obvious that Electric Ireland, Bord Gais and all the rest of these energy companies need to be controlled regarding prices ....

The fact is these entities are making huge profits ... but up their prices on a whim any time some international crisis happens. 20% increase then another 30% increase just 3 months later followed by another increase of 30% in another 3 months. This is just greed and nothing else.

These companies are the greediest entities around ... taking over all markets ... not satisfied with their own. Like BG have to go into electricity not being content with just gas. EI do the same in reverse ... not content with electricity have to get into gas.

Then there's all this sponsorship they do. The consumer end up paying for sponsorship and for entities they are involved with that go wrong. EI sponsor Electric Picnic for example. Would not go to hear that modern dross music if for free but if their attendance is down due to rain the costs will be redeemed via their extremely overpriced products. It is time the whole energy market is changed. All it is about is greed and nothing to do with Covid, Ukraine or anything else.

Wibbs

Bord Gais profits were up 74% on 2021 The ESB made 679 million profit in 21, up 10% on 2020, Energia's profits are up 45% and I'll bet the farm they're still on the profit pig's back and they certainly won't be losing a third or more in profits by year's end. They were raising prices long before the twat in the Kremlin and other vested interests kicked off this war and it's quite simply opportunistic price gouging and they're lying through their faux concern PR departments and with our so called government's help.

Graces7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119560215#Comment_119560215

That is fine. It is not primarily about cost but safety and comfort. As I said way back, after living in a coastal all electric house where storms cut power, I made a decision never ever to rely on all electric again. Just is not safe at my age. ... Variety... I will be buying coal this week too. And ordering turf soo n. And easier for budgetting to buy as needed. No bill shocks. I am happy and you are happy, All is well.

fits

In our house we are completely reliant for electricity for heating, cooking and one car. I’ve priced up solar panels but still need to get them installed. Moved electricity provider this week to a fixed rate contract for ev owners while still in contract. The breakage fee was 50 euro. Worth it for certainty over coming year.

walterking

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119560723#Comment_119560723

It's €50 to withdraw from the contracts. But electricity is currently a crazy price for all suppliers so it will make very little difference.

There is one positive - EVERY country has the issue and Ireland is in the bottom half of prices even after the October price rises. That means that there is huge pressure on ALL governments to work out a solution. Even the socialist governments around Europe are joining in as they don't have a magic wand either (sinn fein supporters will be disappointed at this)

There's a meeting of all energy ministers next Thursday and that should see action taken on an EU wide basis.

The other advantage is that the economy here has been running exceptionally well and the extra tax receipts should allow for some decent short term measures in the budget.

and a final positive - we're not in Britain. The rate is now 52p there and is set to go to 76p in January. Businesses are paying over 70p a unit already and the tories are doing absolutely nothing. Very dark days there and I can see some catastrophic results from UK inaction

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119563575#Comment_119563575

what socialist governments would they be?

...the economy might be doing well, but the life of the average person isnt looking too good!

Graces7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119560782#Comment_119560782

Well I will perforce leave it to you young and fit to protest...Not defeatist to face the current reality. In fact quite the opposite.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119561081#Comment_119561081

So nobody died as a result of the nuclear waste at Chernobyl? The area is completely safe according to you. You made the claim they can clean nuclear waste yet the Pacific islands have loads of waste that they haven’t bothered it with. Your view requires a lot of ignoring of reality

Graces7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119560782#Comment_119560782

Not at all, IF you read before jumping down throats, jim,, ,, .. Being housebound etc I cannot demonstrate but I can write letters to high ups etc. Spme demo, some do other things. VERY narrowminded of you!

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573517#Comment_119573517

You still don't get, it, or more likely, you don't want to admit getting it. The deaths resulting from chernoyl had nothing to do with the storing or handling of waste.

The reactor core melted down, not some drums of nuclear waste springing a leak.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119576085#Comment_119576085

Anything as a result of nuclear power that is left behind is nuclear waste. You want to redefine what nuclear waste is and exclude the reality of circumstances as a result of nuclear power. You said they can deal with nuclear waste and they can’t as I have shown. People have died as a result of nuclear waste

Graces7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119563531#Comment_119563531

Been there done that and never again. A small camping stove is a good idea?