NASA's ROAD BACK TO THE MOON - Very Big rocket Launch - 2nd Sept 18:48

Capt'n Midnight

Follow the livestream on ESA Web TV starting at 12:30 CEST (11:30 BST).

The European Service Module – or ESM – provides for all astronauts’ basic needs, such as water, oxygen, nitrogen, temperature control, power and propulsion. Much like a train engine pulls passenger carriages and supplies power, the European Service Module will take the Orion capsule to its destination and back.

ESA’s agreement with NASA to supply the modules gives Europe three astronaut seats on future moon missions, which Parker says are likely to be on Artemis 4 and 5, though with discussion still underway it is still possible a European could fly on the third Artemis mission

[rant]

It's not the biggest or most powerful rocket ever built. Saturn V, N1 and Starship each beat it in on one or more vital statistics.

Lots of jobs created in key voting states for re-use of Shuttle era leftovers sitting in warehouses for years and years.

NASA doc https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/sls_reference_guide_2022_v2_print_0.pdf

Page 45 lists the flights the engines have been on before. These reusable engines will be discarded into the ocean.

Engine 2045: STS - 89, 95, 92, 102, 105, 110, 113, 121, 118, 127, 131, 135

Engine 2056: STS - 104, 109, 114, 121

Engine 2058: STS - 116, 120, 124, 119, 129, 133

Engine 2060: STS - 127, 131, 135

Page 52 lists the Reused Shuttle SRB segments. They were never worth reusing as steel is relatively cheap.

[/rant]

AMKC

I really hope this goes well for NASA and is a big success for them.

We should really be heading to Mars now not the moon but let's get back to the moon and then on to Mars.

aidanodr

For those interested. NASA SPACE FLIGHT 9 private, voluntary ) are live covering ARTEMIS 1 launch on youtube here. Well worth subscribing to there channel, also cover all the SPACEX events and much more more

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_vyZiVxEEo

The other link below is the official NASA live event .. Started now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMLD0Lp0JBg

aidanodr

Hey @Capt'n Midnight .. could you change the title to this thread, maybe to "ROAD BACK TO THE MOON ( Live Today 29.08.2022 - Artemis 1 launch 1.30pm )" or similar .. attract newbs etc :D

Only us space nerds get what SLS is :D

pjordan

10 min hold on 40 mins due to engine 3 bleed problem

TheIrishGrover

Man, I hope this works. It's SO great to see proper f*cking HUGE rockets again.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119536700#Comment_119536700

Not just NASA as ESA will have modules on some of the future launches.

Edit: As I now see is well documented in the OP 🤦

exaisle

Launch is delayed due to a problem with hydrogen in Engine number 3. When the endineers did a pre-flight test, it didn't return the correct temperature and they're working on a troubleshooting plan.

Gotta think that if it was the Russians, some political prisoner would be sent out with a box of matches and told to light the blue touch paper.....

MayoForSam

Scrubbed for today, engine bleed issue that couldn't be resolved.

aidanodr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119537252#Comment_119537252

https://twitter.com/wapodavenport/status/1564230580606205953

"At 8:35 am NASA makes it official: scrub for the day. Not clear if they can try again on Sept. 2."

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119537081#Comment_119537081

Without the European Space Agency this mission would be over in two hours and six minutes.

Because after the Interim Cryogenic Propulsion Stage* sends the Orion towards the Moon, The European Service Module – or ESM – provides for all astronauts’ basic needs, such as water, oxygen, nitrogen, temperature control, power and propulsion. Much like a train engine pulls passenger carriages and supplies power, the European Service Module will take the Orion capsule to its destination and back. The ESM is based on ESA's ATV (Autonomous Transfer Vehicle) which has previously flown cargo to the ISS.

*It's just an elongated Centaur / RL10 a combination which has been the USA's goto high energy upper stage on just about everything smaller than Saturn V since 1962. Orion which cost $20Bn to develop uses the same heat shield technology as Apollo. If you include the contracts signed for future flights at a flyaway cost of $2Bn per SLS and $2Bn per Orion and the costs of Aries and other cancelled programs there's very little new engineering tech to show for $60Bn. About the only deliverable is votes for Senators.

Capt'n Midnight

On a happier note

https://www.esa.int/Science_Exploration/Human_and_Robotic_Exploration/ESA_names_first_astronaut_to_fly_on_the_Artemis_I_lunar_mission

"it might be a small step for a human, it’s a giant leap for lambkind"

https://blogs.esa.int/orion/2022/08/25/space-science-for-shaun-the-sheep/

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119537183#Comment_119537183

Pfff Russian's don't use matches.

They use PZU's "pyrotechnic ignition device" Each chamber (Soyuz has 32 chambers) contains a pair of igniters which have easy to catch fire chemicals on the top of oil soaked birch sticks. "technicians working from an access bridge under the pad manually insert wooden sticks in a shape of a T-bar into each combustion chamber."

MayoForSam

Still just about on track but another leak today during LH2 fueling. Hydrogen is a pain-in-the-ass to work with and too leaky by far, also goes to show what happens when you try and integrate systems from too many independent contractors, leaks galore.

Fingers crossed for a launch at 7:17pm Irish time.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/sep/03/artemis-1-nasa-to-make-second-attempt-at-launching-rocket-around-moon

Itssoeasy

Just said on the NASA live channel that the engineers have recommended a no go for today to the top brass. I think it’s Monday is the next chance to try to launch but I know it’s stuff they want to get right but it’s not helping the impression of a launch vehicle which I’m not a fan a anyway.

CrabRevolution

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119564980#Comment_119564980

You'd wonder how anything taking 10 years to build and 10s of Billions of dollars to develop can still spring a leak on the day....

It's jarring to hear the NASA commentators using kilometers and litres, almost refreshing.

Itssoeasy

so the launch director is holding off on scrubbing the launch just yet. The launch director wants to have more discussion about it.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119565421#Comment_119565421

The Mars Climate Orbiter was lost because Lockheed Martin didn't use metric software, though NASA should have caught that, and the guidance people's advice to do symmetrical burns was ignored, which would have cancelled the effect, instead it was off by 57Km when it got to Mars.

Itssoeasy

And it’s been officially called for today.

aidanodr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119565510#Comment_119565510

Yip .. scrubbed .. again

https://twitter.com/NASA/status/1566083321502830594

aidanodr

One has to ask the Q. This SLS as far as I know is "cobbled together" with old parts and engines, from Shuttle Era as far as I am aware. You would have to wonder was this wise and why not contract SPACEX raptor engines instead seeming as SPACEX will be attempting similar?

SLS is now extremely over budget apparently plus one would also wonder are NASA still not over the shuttle accidents and potentially too cautious to the point it may never launch?

OF COURSE - I fully understand space is very hard. The shuttle in its day had to be rolled back. Once Artemis does fly all this will be forgotten .. had something gone wrong it would be remembered for a long time

aidanodr

So it seems this is it for the mo re SLS

"Pending post-MMT presser for official words, but the word going around the SLS circles cites evaluations of an October 17 target. So that'd be a rollback to the VAB."

Poulgorm

I don't understand this SLS project at all. Despite using a lot of previously developed engine technology, it is costing billions. And if it is successfully launched, it is doomed anyway, because building new rockets for each launch is financially unviable.

If SpaceX are successful with their Starship, the SLS is doomed to the scrapheap.

Yet nobody in America seems to be questioning the SLS programme.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119565670#Comment_119565670

1960's Centaur and Saturn V upper stages were to be relativity cheap and quick because they built on the 1950's hydrogen work for the USAF Lockheed CL-400 Suntan. (The USAF also looked at Boron based fuels. Money wasn't an issue for them.) Centaur and it's RL10 are workhorses that have been flying since 1962.

The shuttle was to be relativity cheap and quick because they built on the hydrogen tech from Saturn V, mostly the J-2.

Ares etc. were to be relativity cheap and quick because they built on the tech from the Shuttle.

SLS was to be relativity cheap and quick and low risk because it built on the tech from the Shuttle. But they threw away all the stuff that looked easy and found out it wasn't.

Shuttle-C could have put 77 tonnes into LEO while reusing everything off the shuttle without modification except the wings and fuselage of the orbiter. There were even plans to modify two remaining orbiters. Program was cancelled in 1990 because the RS-25 engines would have cost $38m each ($86m adjusted for inflation). Instead for SLS a cheaper simpler non-reusable version, the RS-25F engine was developed with the help of three decades of progress in metallurgy and 3D printing and now cost $145m* each including R&D. ( the second batch only cost $100m )

Back in the days of Saturn V there was a need to inject money into the economy and the high priority and importance and sheer national pride of the project lead to new levels of quality control in addition to technical advances in electronics and when the program was over the workforce was able to take this ethos and knowledge into the industry. That was the real payoff of the Apollo program. Now over half of NASA's budget goes to US aerospace ie. competitors of Airbus who ironically are building the Service Module.

SLS and it's predecessor programs by contrast have been dragging on since before the Shuttle was cancelled, it isn't the cold war anymore and everyone and their dog knows the main purpose is to get Senators from the deep south re-elected. It's been dragging on so long that SpaceX have come out of nowhere by comparison.

*Falcon Heavy can put 63 tonnes into LEO for $150m vs 70 tonnes for Block 1 of SLS , it can't launch Orion and it's service module though. The next block of SLS should have better performance. A Starship refuelled in orbit would completely own it though.

3d4life

ULA may have a pilfering problem in the stores

https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/mpo/d/orlando-artemis-rocket/7530346653.html

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.theregister.com/2022/11/03/nasa_artemis_launch/

November 14. .. NASA will have a 69-minute launch window starting at 1207 EST (0507 UTC). If the flight succeeds, the SLS will send the Orion capsule into lunar orbit where it will spend about 25 days in space before splashing back down to Earth on December 9.

The SRB's are reaching their use by date.

Best comment

Could this be a new fall (sorry) tradition ?

Every November the SLS is rolled out to the pad, and if you see its shadow then it's 1 more year of testing

Quantum Erasure

Storm / Hurricane Nicole expected to hit Florida coast around 1am Thursday, NASA decided to leave rocket on launchpad, but ...

https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1590100120615649280

edit:

The Nov. 16 launch is scheduled to occur during a two-hour window that opens at 1:04 a.m. EST (0604 GMT). If Artemis 1 does get off the ground on that date, the mission will end with an ocean splashdown by Orion on Dec. 11.

If Artemis 1 cannot fly on Nov. 16, the next launch opportunity will come on Nov. 19, NASA officials said.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119851373#Comment_119851373

If they get lucky the storm will take out the rocket and there'll be another year of pork.

knucklehead6

Post to follow thread

irishgeo

Lets hope it gets off the ground.

The 1st hurdle is to get the approval to launch with the damage from the hurricane to part of the rocket.

The 2nd hurdle is to get it fully fuelled which has been the downfall the past few times.

The 3rd hurdle is the weather which is looking good.

the final hurdle is getting up on time to see the launch.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119874475#Comment_119874475

And the leaks and the best before date of the SRB's, ain't over till the fat lady sings.

The reason the rocket costs $2 Billion is because they spent extra to minimise the risks.

For that sort of money you could buy one of these

And the rest of the entire Indian space program

And that's not counting the development costs for SLS

Capt'n Midnight

Two-hour launch window opens from 06:04 GMT on Wednesday, November 16.

NASA TV using EST , add 5 hours to the times

Tuesday, Nov. 15 

6:30 a.m. – Coverage of U.S. Spacewalk 81 to install an IROSA (ISS Rollout Solar Array) modification kit on the starboard 6 truss at the International Space Station (spacewalk scheduled to begin at 8 a.m. EST and will last around 7 hours) (All Channels)

3:30 p.m. – Coverage of the cryogenic fueling of the Space Launch System for launch on the Artemis I mission (All Channels)

10:30 p.m. – Coverage of the launch of the Space Launch System and the Orion spacecraft on the Artemis I mission (Launch scheduled at 1:04 a.m. EST Nov. 16) (All Channels)

Wednesday, Nov. 16 

4 a.m. – Artemis I post-launch news conference (time subject to change) (All Channels)

8:30 a.m. – Artemis I Orion outbound trajectory correction burn coverage (outbound trajectory correction burn scheduled at 8:51 a.m. EST) (All Channels)

10 a.m. – Artemis I Orion first imagery coverage (All Channels)

irishgeo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119874649#Comment_119874649

im off Wednesday so im setting the alarm for 5am.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21X5lGlDOfg

NASA’s YouTube channel, they are loading the H2 slowly.

eight and a half hours to liftoff.

still chilling down O2

Itssoeasy

In a hold due to issues with the range and that equipment needing to be fixed. They went old school a couple of hours ago to fix a leak with a couple of people and a big wrench.

Itssoeasy

Looks like we might be a go. Launch director is polling the room and so far it’s a GO.

Itssoeasy

count is going to be resumed.

namloc1980

T-10 minutes!!

Itssoeasy

6:47 am is new launch time.

Itssoeasy

Well they got past the leak.

namloc1980

Amazing.

knucklehead6

She fairly jumped off that pad!

Itssoeasy

Amazing stuff after a few false starts.

namloc1980

TLI burn ongoing sending Orion on a trajectory to the Moon!

Itssoeasy

The last Apollo moon mission (17) was a night launch in 1972 and the first launch of Artemis was a night launch nearly 50 years to the day. There was some giddy up from it compared to the Saturn V which looked like it took a while to get going.

Kalyke

Any one got a link to the flight path it took after take off?

JupiterKid

Very pleased to see Artemis/SLS launch successfully after many delays. 🥳🥳 🚀 This could really represent the start of a new era in human spaceflight.

Humanity must explore. It’s in our very DNA. 👍👍

namloc1980

Amazing raw power:

irishgeo

When is it due to arrive at the moon.

Itssoeasy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119886896#Comment_119886896

In the Apollo era it took 4 days to get to the moon so around the same I’d assume.

firemansam4

Total idiot here when it comes to all the technical stuff that goes in to making this all possibe. But I was thinking about the whole Artemis project and I wonder why they are near enough just copying the Apollo missions using the same expensive methods they used back then?

The mission will be dependent on Starship being successful for the lander, but then if that happens it will make all the expense up until now unnecessary. If Starship is successful then we have a way to deliver much larger payloads to LEO and beyond.

Why not then just build a small refuelling depot in LEO. Maybe with crew transfer facilities a little like the ISS, then construct a spacecraft that can make a trip from there to the moon and back?

Is any of this in any way feasible?