Young voters' view of the Troubles on the island of Ireland.

political analyst

In an article for the The Sunday Times today - entitled "This misty-eyed view of IRA violence risks rolling back the peace process" - Newton Emerson wrote that nationalists in Northern Ireland (NI) switched to Sinn Féin (SF) because of a belief in its policies, frustration with unionism, disappointment with the SDLP, or just the appeal of its electoral momentum, and didn't want to apologised for it.

In his opinion, voters in the Republic who are attracted to SF by its housing policies or frustration with the government are drawn into accepting its line with the past and that those voters may begin to feel solidarity with the party when Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil attack it.

He believes that the new nationalist view of the Troubles is unlikely to fall back with with the political pendulum when that pendulum is caused to swing back following SF's likely position in government in the Republic by a setback there which could carry into NI, where the party is not invincible. The last sentence of his article is:

"A permanent obstacle to reconciliation has reared up on the political landscape."

Surely, younger pro-SF voters on both sides of the border are aware of the horror of Troubles from hearing references to the conflict's legacy on the news. Do they really think that the deliberate killing of innocent people in a politically-motivated campaign of violence is justified? If anti-peace process republican groups perpetrate further mass-casualty attacks in the near future, would those voters be OK with such attacks?

Surely in present environment with Ukrainians standing up for their communities and country,anyone could see nationalists in the north were right to do same with what was going on?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058260743/young-voters-view-of-the-troubles-on-the-island-of-ireland

The sooner Unionists and their sympathisers (like Newton) realise that there is a hierarchy of blame (that they are on) for what happened, the better and the closer real reconciliation will come.

Some people felt they had no alternative to violently imposing the will of a sectarian and bigoted state and some felt they had no alternative to violently resisting it.

A tragedy for everyone. Young and old without blinkers can see that is the reason for a lot of war/conflict since the dawn of time.

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532747#Comment_119532747

So you're implicitly suggesting that Northern Ireland is comparable to Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk?! That's absurd because NI has always been recognised by the international community as part of the UK.

touts

They might be willing to ignore Sinn Fein's tendancy towards violence when they vote put them into power in two years time. But they will know all about it 10 years later when they try to vote to remove Sinn Fein from power. No hard-line revolutionary socialist government has ever been removed from power without first turning the guns on their people.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532817#Comment_119532817

How can something only in existence for a 100 years been always recognised🤣

People have every right to be free and stand up to oppression be it in NI or anywhere else in the world.......

you never see ex-british soldiers and ruc members asked to justify their actions in the troubles...but people standing up and defending their communities from attacked for being Irish are🧐

griffin100

I‘I’ll never vote SF, both because of their economic policies and their history, but then again I’m old enough to have lived at a time when their members were killing people.

For most voters in their 20’s the troubles are a standing item on Reeling In The Years, hence they gravitate towards the SF populist solutions to all of the counties woes with no concern about the past. It just doesn't resonate with them (nor with the ‘new’ Irish). Asking these people to view SF in the context of the Troubles is akin to asking French people to break off relations with Germany due to WW2. As time passes memories of people in the republic will fade further.

I’ve no doubt SF will be in the next government and it will take a Dail term or two for their vote to settle back to its natural level as voters realise they are not the answer to all of our problems, but that remains to be seen.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532829#Comment_119532829

You are predicting that they will violently cling to power? I'll bookmark this post. 😁

touts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532872#Comment_119532872

100%. Best print it out as their first target will be to shut down sites like boards.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532917#Comment_119532917

Board will be long gone in 10 years🤣....it's dying as it is,and barely limping along now

breezy1985

Whatever about the Republic but why should a Sinn Fein voter be any more ashamed of bombings than a Labour, Lib Dem or Tory voter who have done a lot more bombing than anyone close to Sinn Fein in the lives of a mid 20yo.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532917#Comment_119532917

Nah I'm bookmarking it to re-read for a giggle from time to time.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532870#Comment_119532870

People in their 20's don't watch reeling in the years. Any I know have almost no context of the troubles or the social problems it caused, or how it was highjacked by criminals and thugs. Not quite a romantics rose tinted perspective but getting towards that.

Similarly they have no context of Ireland place in UK history or indeed British empire role in history worldwide. Its bit like what did the Romans do for us. Only far more negative. Also people in the UK, have no awareness of UK history in Ireland. Any that do have a grossly distorted perspective.

As you say it will take people a while to relearn these lessons all over again.

What we've learnt from history is that we are mostly unable to learn from history.

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532837#Comment_119532837

I meant that it has always been recognised since its inception. The Republic's constitutional claim over NI, which was repealed by referendum in 1998, was never recognised by any country.

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532829#Comment_119532829

The modern Irish defence forces wouldn't open fire on Irish civilians. The Russian forces are the polar opposite because the Russian Revolution meant that, generally, the aristocrats in the Imperian Russian military either were murdered by the Bolsheviks or went into exile.

Our defence forces probably have more in common with the German military because German aristocrats held on to their status after Kaiser Wilhelm went into exile and those who survived WW2 are still prominent in the Federal Republic. In other words, if more German civilians had protested in the mid 1930s, the prominence of the 'vons' in the German army meant that an order by Hitler to shoot civilians on German streets probably would not have been obeyed.

The armed forces of western European countries are much more ethical than those of, for example, Zimbabwe or Myanmar.

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532943#Comment_119532943

Bombings by lawfully-existing air forces of democratic countries are not the same as bombings by unlawful organisations.

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532837#Comment_119532837

British military and RUC veterans are criticised all the time.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533205#Comment_119533205

What's the difference?

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532798#Comment_119532798

Newton Emerson is not a hardline Unionist. Actually, he's pro-choice on the matter of abortion. In a previous article in The Sunday Times, he criticised conscientious objection regarding that matter in healthcare in NI.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533205#Comment_119533205

That distinction is meaningless if you are the victim. It's moot to a pedestrian on the street in Belfast or on a street in Tripoli or Dresden or Hiroshima .

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533213#Comment_119533213

The lawfully-existing ones in the West don't intend to kill innocent people.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533218#Comment_119533218

I didn't say 'hardline'.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533223#Comment_119533223

When you drop a bomb at someone or point a loaded gun, you aren't planning to tickle them.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533223#Comment_119533223

Were the British secret forces in Afghanistan not recently exposed as holding a competition to see whom could kill the most,resulting in 100s of innocent deaths?

The lawfully-existing forces whom are so good,the British are having to introduce laws to cover up war crimes on this island (if left away by state here will do same for Iraq and Afghanistan too),recently they put up a commerative plague to a man,who's best known action in troubles was to shoot a disabled man in the back....

How could anyone look on at bloody Sunday and claim they didn't intend to kill innocents?

olestoepoke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533205#Comment_119533205

A dead civilian lying underneath rubble after a bombing is the same no matter who dropped/planted the bombs

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533205#Comment_119533205

Why. It's all innocent civilians getting pummeled in the end.

Does it matter how "lawful" the bomb was when your scraping your kids off the wall.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533223#Comment_119533223

You are either a WUM or very far up the whole of NATO governments if you believe this.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532817#Comment_119532817

It hasn't been always recognised. This country claimed the 6 counties up until 1998 agreement.

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533123#Comment_119533123

No, people in their 20s do watch Reeling in the Years. Same as the Toy Show it has huge nostalgia appeal

Zebra3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533205#Comment_119533205

Yeah, Britain’s war criminals dropping Agent Orange on civilians in Malaya is grand.

Odd that no British political party is ever called out for these crimes nor the British military.

It must have been of great consolation to those who had Agent Orange dropped on them to know that the ROYAL Air Force is a legal organisation. I’d say that really eased the pain. 🙄

Imagine being a supporter of a state that dropped chemical weapons on civilians who were against a foreign occupation. From another continent and also whinging about the IRA.

The stench of hypocrisy. All enabled by the biased media.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532870#Comment_119532870

Same here, but I fear that many under say 35 in the Republic have no tangible memory of the almost daily carnage that was the news of NI. And if they do have an idea, it's easily swept under the carpet in favour of the electioneering promises and agendas of a SF party with it's eyes on power.

Problem is that as far as I can see, SF has one central core policy and every other policy is subservient to this. And that core policy which is not generally paraded publicly, is a United Ireland at any and all costs. It's THE prize and I am absolutely certain that if they do get a handle on power in the Republic, nothing will done by the party if it does not further this objective. They will strain every sinew in the background to leverage our constitution and the GF Belfast agreement to obtain a border poll and then do all in their power to get the result they want, by any means, fair or foul.

I'm not concerned about any difficulties of getting SF out of power when they lose the popular vote. But I would be very concerned about the prospects of open civil war on the island.

They are the proverbial wolf in sheep's clothing and the younger voters are being taken in by the rhetoric, not knowing what may lie ahead for them.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533466#Comment_119533466

They were born in 2000....what nostalgia of the troubles?

mikethecop

this trend of shinnerbots trying to write history along party lines is fairly disgusting in fairness ,

whats the difference between the war in Ukraine and the crimes of sfira ? really ? 🤮🤮🤮

thats a sick mentality lads

in reality sf is still up to its neck in crime and criminality both historical and ongoing , the prospect of them in power and subsequently getting them out of power is going t lead to a difficult few years for all on this island

the glee with which said shinnerbots look forward to this should make any sane person very nervous

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533223#Comment_119533223

Nor did the IRA where possible, 7 out of 10 that the IRA killed were involved in the State or military.

Incredibly high rate, probably unprecedented in conflict.

Other military forces are not so careful.

I'm very proud of our forces, their effort, sacrifice and determination.

Zebra3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533558#Comment_119533558

Rewriting history?

Do you see FFFG and Labour taking ownership of their collusion with the paedos in the RC cult to destroy democracy here and allow women to be kidnapped in to their gulags?

Do you see the media holding same parties accountable?

Do you see these parties and others being held accountable for allowing foreign military to pass through here on their way to obliterating brown skinned people in the Middle East?

There are actual idiots on here who seem to think that the six counties was some sort of democratic paradise.

It was nothing more than a racist, sectarian colonial settler state.

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533551#Comment_119533551

Nostalgia for the show, which was always on tv in the 2000s

bmc58

I have voted Independant,Sinn Fein,Labour for the past few General /European/Local Elections and I thought that Ireland needs a change from FF/FG and whoever else.I was strongly leaning twoards Sinn Fein for my vote in the next election but I saw a video on Facebook where Sinn Fein were having an advertised public meeting(where Mary Lou was to be attending) and a man with serious questions about their support for certain Government policies was stopped from entry to the meeting by two"bouncers" at the door.The Gardai were called and were smiling and said that they couldn't make them let him in to the meeting.I was shocked by this and made me really concider whether I will vote SF again.It was a "public meeting" but not totally.Why were they not wanting to give this man a citizen of Ireland a chance to air his grievences against their party.I was really dissapointed with the "heavies" at the door.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533479#Comment_119533479

I have voted for and been a member of Labour (under Corbyn so not into the chemical weapons at least) so despite the fact I won't be voting for Sinn Fein I also won't be lecturing people who do when it comes to war.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533481#Comment_119533481

Civil war 🤣🤣🤣

95% of this country wouldn't throw a slap never mind a grenade.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533692#Comment_119533692

You think so? Look into the average SF response as to what do with several hundred thousand citizens of NI who do not want to join the Republic.

Typically it's 50+1% in favour is fine and if they don't like it, let them f**k off back across the water.

The SF strategy is remarkably similar to the language fascists who are using the constitution to try and engineer gaeilge into the ordinary fabric of people. What you can't achieve by persuasion, is to be achieved by devious use of constitutional and legal means.

Think that's going to end well, do you? Be wary, very wary.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533736#Comment_119533736

Would basic democracy not tell you that 50%+1 is enough to carry any referendum,this not a devious use of constitutional or legal means,it's how the world works......

it took 50.3% or circa 7000 votes to carry the divorce referendum here,the argument against allowing a majority decision in an referendum is that 49% supercede 51%.....leading to not everyone vote being equal,which would not be a devious use of constitutional means,it would be downright illegal

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533479#Comment_119533479

The killing of innocent people was unintentional in those cases.

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533222#Comment_119533222

It matters in the eyes of the law, i.e. malice aforethought.

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533299#Comment_119533299

It's tragic but unintentional - so there's no malice aforethought on the part of the air force.

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533358#Comment_119533358

And no country recognised the Republic's constitutional claim on NI.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533825#Comment_119533825

Do this include the law,being brought in by British to coverup it's war crimes here

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533237#Comment_119533237

Usually, the military is aiming to kill enemy combatants, not civilians.

Atlantic Dawn

I think the younger voters will take their chances with SF and see if there's a change from having to live in their mothers box room until they are middle aged because of the current lot.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533736#Comment_119533736

Alright you have convinced me that all them Eoin O' Broin fans on Tik Tok are dangerous paramilitaries.

I'm off out now to stockpile tinned beans for the coming war

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533590#Comment_119533590

The media have held them accountable. Those politicians who were in power during the time when control by the Catholic Church was at its height have since died.

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533855#Comment_119533855

The difference is that those government leaders who were aware of clerical abuse when it was taking place have since died.

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533846#Comment_119533846

Why don't they count themselves lucky they're not saddled with negative-equity mortgages?!