Any IT Hiring Managers on here ?

broken sink

I am 51, out of IT with 2 years hoping to make a return. Ideally hoping to get working from home or Hybrid as I have an elderly parent who can live at home while I am around. So far I am not having much luck with my applications but it may be that I don't have all the skills required on the job description or my age who knows. I don't apply for anything that I at least don't have some of the skills for.

I am wondering what a hiring manager would think if I stated on my application that for example I am willing to work for a fairly reduced salary/rate for the first month or do the first week for free. Would this be viewed positively or some act of desperation ? 

The message that I want to convey is that I am keen to get back into the workplace (from a Non IT Role), I am flexible with remuneration and I would be keen to minimize a possible perceived risk by an employer so maybe a short term contract.

horgan_p

One the many things I do where I work is look at CVs for prospective technical hires.

If you have a question, feel free to PM me.

I would never discuss salary without an interview, you are starting from a place of weakness.

If you have a skills gap,either close the gap or be able to show that you ar ein the process of closing it.

broken sink

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119524277#Comment_119524277

Thanks for the offer. In due course I may take you up on that.

Ficheall

Maybe a part time springboard course in computer science would be worth doing? They're free/cheap and not difficult or much of a time commitment, but it's an extra bit of paper that shows "continuous professional development" or whatever.

qba73

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058260475/any-it-hiring-managers-on-here

DM please.

L1011

Most companies of any scale would have policies that would prevent you working for free; nor would taking someone on at a significantly reduced intro rate be normal either

Nobody ever has all the skills required for a role, those doing the actual interviews understand that - you just need enough on your CV to get past the HR drones. Have you had someone look over your CV?

Also - while its blatantly easy to get a good guess at age from other dates, don't put your DOB on the CV. It's only important when you're 16/17/18 and there's restrictions on hours or what you can do/sell. But I still see it on nearly every CV I've ever looked at!

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058260475/any-it-hiring-managers-on-here

As an IT Operations Manager myself, I've previously hired guys based on their attitude and having the basics but a general interest in IT - but it depends on the type of role you're applying for and what experience you have from other roles, as well as a willingness to learn and get stuck in.

I took in a guy who was about your age about 10 years ago now and I've brought him with me to 2 subsequent companies because of his approach to the job.

Mrs OBumble

HR drones / bots are likely the problem: once you are over 50, you are "late career stage" so no ones priority. Doing a course won't change that, unless you do something which is in very short supply.

Relationships are the best way around them.

helimachoptor

Whats your background OP? IT is pretty broad

broken sink

Lots of Feedback. No I don't have my DOB on the CV and no I have never had it reviewed. I agree with the comments about CVs not getting past HR. I think it may even be worse with recruitment agencies as many of the staff have a non technical background. In previous companies I am aware of a few bizarre decisions HR and hiring managers have made. My background is a degree in IT. Main skill set would be SQL, T-SQL, Microsoft SQL Server Data tools SSIS, SSRS, SSAS and Oracle PL/SQL(12 years ago). A few other skills that have fallen off the radar.

I understand companies may have policies against working for free for a week or working at a lower rate for period but personally I would have no objection against it if a company suggested it to me. Oracle PL/SQL is a good example of skill that I might need a few weeks to get back up to speed on. I may do some online course(s) but I would have more motivation of doing an online course if I knew it was benefitting the day job.

Esho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119526839#Comment_119526839

Really? I'm toast now I've passed 50?

Flinty997

I think you need recent certs in what you've mentioned and level 7 or 8 in a IT related degree and some ITIL or Prince2 certs with perhaps some exposure to Agile to have a chance with HR and Agencies.

If you get someone in IT hiring directly into DevOps, 3rd tier application support etc you might have a better chance or avoiding the above filter.

The big tech companies are ageist hard to get in there. Contracting us a good way to get recent experience and skills on the CV.

Write a CV with your last 2-3 yrs experience and you are how you look from a recruiters point of view.

Public sector jobs are less ageist but you have to get past a similar HR/agency filter above. You might also need to do some competency interview/CV prep to be successful though.

Make your CV short and simple. No more than 2 pages. Tailor it for every specific job application and leave off any very old/irrelevant experience. Make it visual scanable in 5 secs but enough skillset keywords the automated word scanners will pick up. Don't over sell your skillset.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119526839#Comment_119526839

Networking. Attend job fairs, industry meetups. There lots of DevOps/DB meetups on meetup that you can attend.

Creamy Goodness

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119527333#Comment_119527333

Always ignore their advice it’s really shite (read other thread where they post).

IT Manager here. The average span of someone in my team staying is 4-5 years most are in their late 20’s early 30’s and they jump around to different experiences, salary bumps, changes in the home life (be closer to home/move abroad etc.)

at 50 you still have 15! Years left before you hit retirement age, that’s still a good chunk of a career left and being honest having a single person do a 15 year stint in one IT job is rare but still doable so it shouldn’t scare any manager off. It shouldn’t be the sole reason they’re not getting replies I assume it’s something else.

lawred2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119526839#Comment_119526839

Hogwash.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119528399#Comment_119528399

Now is this hogwash based on actual experience or just a random opinion are you say 50+ and searching for a job or know someone that is and have had no problem landing interviews and a job?

Three of my mates are in their mid fifties and getting no where, not even an interview.

lawred2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119528432#Comment_119528432

For us it's more based on possessing desirable and relevant skills and experience. Not age.

The warning bell for someone with longevity in the industry is if they have a CV which reflects maybe a ceiling in potential being reached a good while back.

For example, a CV coming in for a mid senior position from someone in their fifties just raises questions. You will have difficulty if not applying for very senior/principal positions which would reflect the experience you should have after 20/30 years in the industry.

Esho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119528369#Comment_119528369

Thanks Creamy Goodness.

OP - i went through the same worries as you when I was leaving my first IT job after 5 years.

I'd changed career in my mid 40s and was stressing that I wasnt getting responses because of my age, lack of experience etc.

In the end I was hired by a great group of guys, then left that job and have one where I can see a future.

Hang in - it will work out. Ask for feedback on skills and experience gaps if you're worried about them

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119528479#Comment_119528479

I understand why you say this but it's ageism. It's not a criticism but an observation.

"...“In the context of the workplace, it includes assumptions that once people reach a certain age they become resistant to change and have less ability to learn new skills – especially in technology..."

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/work/age-discrimination-alive-and-well-in-irish-workplaces-1.4532213#:~:text=%E2%80%9CIn%20the%20context%20of%20the,new%20skills%20%E2%80%93%20especially%20in%20technology.

It also happens internally where people get pigeon holed in a role. Which forces people to have to move externally to get promoted. So hence no loyality to anyone or anything. I know that's an old fashioned concept.

It's part of corporate management mindset which looks at people very superficially and very narrow perspective on ROI. I understand it's why it's become popular same with all modern management and HR frameworks. But it's souless.

But I think it's useful for the OP to see the prisim that an older person will be viewed when they take a different path, to care for family will be given short thrift when it comes to interviews. They aren't looking for cultural fit, or build a team. They want you to hit the ground running at max output with minimal training or instruction. Much like a contractor.

That's just the reality.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119528432#Comment_119528432

A lot of older people start micro business'es or micro incomes for this reason. Why kill your self in IT when you do gardening in the side for someone and earn the same or more with a lot more satisfaction.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119528369#Comment_119528369

Focussing on "most are in their late 20’s early 30’s "

Are most of the applications you receive from people in that age range? Or do you simply hire people in that age range, because you like them better?

You are absolutely correct that someone who is 50 has 1/3 of their working life ahead of them. Unfortunately, many hiring managers choose not to hire people who are older than them (see above). Also many larger companies have hiring targets based on career stage, and HR actively discourage late-career-stage hiring, believing that the candidates have risen as far as they're going to go. That's not hogwash, it's been observed in HR policies in a couple of MNC, and fits the experience of a many people I know in that age group (including me).

Or were you saying that the recommendation to get around the barrier is shite? If you think it is, perhaps you could provide the OP with some specific advice they can follow to address the problem they're having.

Flinty997

It's all well documented

https://www.computerweekly.com/feature/Age-discrimination-an-overlooked-diversity-issue-in-tech

"...The most at risk professionals in this context, she says, were those that had failed to move into senior leadership positions, staying too long in the same middle management or technical roles, which caused them in many instances to stagnate due to lack of training or promotion. On being made redundant, such individuals tend to set up their own businesses, become consultants or even leave the tech sector altogether..."

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119528479#Comment_119528479

So it's basically it just your perception of what happens in your company as opposed to the market and what people in their 50 actually experience. Out of interest what percentage of over 50 candidates actually get taken on? And it it's high you can expect to be receiving a lot of PMs in the coming week or so.

Flinty997

Don't shoot the messenger.

He's just telling you like it is. At least we know we have to think outside the box to make any further progress after a certain point. You can't just wing it anymore. That's the past.

Good news is with a primary degree in IT and experience behind it. It's a lot less work to get that CV back in shape.

broken sink

No interest in the management side right now. Early days yet on the job hunt. I might consider doing some certification. The age thing is probably not black and white in fairness. So companies may discriminate others won't.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532653#Comment_119532653

Someone already posted past a certain point of time in role and/or experience they expect you to be manager. Regardless is that makes any sense. That's a lack of parallel technical grade, or seniority in role.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058260475/any-it-hiring-managers-on-here

Microsoft in Dublin is hiring massively. Sales, Digital Sales, Pre-Sales and Customer Success roles. Jobs are all on linked in as well as on the Microsoft career website. They also have regular assessment center like hiring processes every Thursday.

They have a brand new office in Dublin, they have a good rating as an employer, they provide excellent training and IT certifications, however none I know of tend to stay longer than 3 years . The salary is quite good for Irish standards, but there are a lot of internationals working there, not used to the difficult Dublin housing market. I guess they all get tired of sharing a place to live and return to their home lands in Europe after a while, - hence Microsoft is always hiring.

Flinty997

The Microsoft people I've worked with all seem to chasing targets and tick boxes. Their offices are amazing. But the rate of change of tech and products seems insane. They've hardly released a product before its been deprecated and they've moved to something else. I assume that take a toil. I only see younger people when I'm there. Only older people seem to customers. Maybe I'm wrong. I've never heard anyone complain about working there which is a good sign. They all seem very focused, which also is a good sign.

Annascaul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533033#Comment_119533033

From what I am hearing is that Microsoft Dublin is very much about which team you work for and what kind of manager you have. Some managers are really great and experienced other managers are totally incompetent.

Thus the experiences differ greatly from positive to negative and everything in between. Since it's international and customer oriented it can be very different, also if you speak some rare foreign language they are more eager to hire you and probably do anything to get you on board. I think they are rather desperate to hire even though they certainly don't admit it. There are regular video conferences by invitation only to potential candidates how awesome things are there.

The reasons for leaving Microsoft Dublin are either dealing with questionable managers, having unreachable targets at work, or the general issues around the Dublin housing situation and not being able to resolve them.

Other than that, it's a great place to work, good perks, good training, stock options.

Flinty997

Probably just life in a fast pace tech.

Annascaul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533305#Comment_119533305

Yes and no. It's common knowledge in the IT world that products are introduced quickly and that's a fast process, - faster than other industries. Also frequent internal re-organizations are the norm, - in any multinational IT organization. Microsoft is not alone with this.

However that's not the point I am making. Microsoft Dublin made a couple of general hiring mistakes. Most internationals relocating to Dublin and accepting employment there were negatively surprised about the high cost of housing, also the cost of food in supermarkets is higher than in mainland Europe. Microsoft Dublin started then to state "Start here and go anywhere", - meaning they allowed to be transferred to some other country after one or two years in Dublin.

Then before the pandemic they paid around 8000 to 9000 Euros in relocation fees to Dublin right in the beginning of employment provided that they stay at least for one year. This has caused for a lot of new hires just to stay for one year be demotivated and then leave, again the cost of housing would have been the issue. I think it would have been better to pay the relocation fees only after successful completion of the probationary period.

Yes, the new office sure is nice, but they could have built that somewhere in the Netherlands as well, and attracted more of an international crowd more long term, as housing is a bit better, and the Netherlands are equally attractive.

During the pandemic lot's of internationals returned to their home countries as well.

Flinty997

Good to know. Interesting insights.

My point was not that rate of change in tech is fast. But the product churn in Microsoft is exceptional. Anyone I've worked with in MS is rarely there or on the same product more than 12 months. That has to take a toll.

If I had the choice of working in MS in different locations (no family commitments) I wouldn't pick Dublin other then to get my foot in the door. I just think other cities have more to offer in general.

But good to hear the recruitment side of it. Never considered your perspectives on it.

Annascaul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533435#Comment_119533435

That's exactly it, to get your foot into the door. There used to be a youtube video about something like "start here go anywhere" with Microsoft Dublin. It was done several years ago, when they had the old office in Sandyford, near the LUAS stop.

The hiring process is initially a couple of phone calls by some recruiters, often they are external, but directly employed by Microsoft. Then there are two more in dept parts, one role play, and one competence based interview both by two different managers, - they then feedback to the hrining manager and then a decision is made. The whole process seems online these days. Pre-pandemic they paid for return flights, taxi pick up and one night at a hotel close by, but I doubt they still do that now.

Regarding the relocation fees, it helps stating that you're overseas, Irish, wanting to return to Ireland, and they may accept that. You just need to provide a foreign address for the contract to be delivered, possibly a foreign phone number and a short trip back and forth.

The roles catering for British clients are often optional, either Dublin or their Reading office in the UK. Housing is way easier in Reading, plus you're on a fast train to London Paddington.

The HR general manager by the name of Avil M something at Microsoft Dublin was a bit of a floozy in her younger years, - I've known her personally, also no idea how she'd gotten the job. Try to avoid dealing with her on a professional level at least.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533524#Comment_119533524

I have reason to believe that businesses like Microsoft and Salesforce are desperate to find any candidates for their inside sales and service roles. They advertise the same rolls over and over week after week, suggesting they are not getting anywhere with their hiring targets.

Also they are looking for multi-lingual candidates, often from the European mainland. Fluent French, German, Dutch, Scandinavian or Eastern European or so.... However once these candidates find out how expensive and difficult it is to find accommodation in Dublin together with that current "work from home" or "work from anywhere" trend, it seems harder and harder to find anybody interested.

They also make the mistake of focusing on younger candidates too much, younger candidates neither have the down payment to buy a property in Dublin, nor the general financial background, - plus they still want to "get around and see the world" a bit, explore different countries as well as long as they aren't tied down by family commitments.

If they focus on candidates who are just two to five years out of university, these candidates will certainly not find the housing market in Dublin very attractive, ending up paying 1000 to 1400 Euros for just a room and the "luxury" of an en-suite certainly won't make them happy, nor will they have the financial background to buy at this age.

Thus their hiring tends to go nowhere, and even if, high turnover and understaffing are the results.

longrunn

Number one way of getting past the Great HR Filter is using referrals. If you don't have a referral then your CV is just another one that HR are looking at, but if there's 50 applications and you're not in the top 10-20% in terms of skills and quality experience, well then it's going in the bin. At least with a referral you're more likely to at least get a call from recruitment.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119553406#Comment_119553406

Microsoft have been doing that thing of advertising the same roles over and over, as long as they've been in Ireland. 20 yrs or more Often with different agencies. You still get filtered out by the layers of agents and hr drones in the middle. I've worked there as a contractor a few times over the years but never as a direct hire.

Annascaul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119553406#Comment_119553406

You seem to have worked in this industry. I have worked in this field for a while.

My experience was that in any of these inside sales and customer relations roles with foreign language requirements is that they aren't designed for staying there long. They tend to cheat you on your sales commission or other KPI target achievement after more than two years, in order to get you out of the organization. If you complain, you'll be slowly phased out, or fired, and earmarked for not to be rehired at any stage.

Salesforce seems to be the fairest what management, career development and commission payment is concerned, Microsoft is a bit hit and miss depending on which manager one reports to, Google and Facebook seem to massively target a younger audience of candidates.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119553792#Comment_119553792

What Microsoft is concerned, I've only noticed it recently as well that they constantly post the same jobs, but I've only been following them the last two years. I think lots of foreign international-people left during the pandemic, simply went home to their counties, and not too keen on returning, - sharing a house in Dublin in Covid times also isn't the best choice either. Some of the Microsoft inside sales roles even seem to pay a basic of 90 K plus OTE, even if one doesn't have a Microsoft certification in any product? I also know of all sorts of filtering tools for HR when the source candidates, but any organization is using them, - it's not exclusive to one.

I am aware that Salesforce is doing some hiring via CPL Recruitment and the relationship between CPL and Salesforce is rather old, possibly as old as Salesforce is in Dublin.

Flinty997

When I last used to a pay attention to this (a very long time ago) they were mostly very generic descriptions and roles. I would ignore any jobs that didn't have something "different" them. Some quirk in the requirements.

tinytobe

Regarding working at Microsoft Dublin, there are a few comments and rants on Glassdoors. It all sounds very much like my inside sales experience.

 Awesome office, including:

- great food (although not free)

- great cafe

- music room

- yoga room

- ping pong

- chill out areas

5. Huge amount of materials to learn (not only related to IT), possibility of getting your MBA or other study course funded - super cool!

Cons

This is only related to Digital Sales in Dublin Office!

1. Salaries are joke. Comparing to Google, Facebook, Hubspot, Twitter and other big players in Ireland, Microsoft pays less. Sometimes even 20-30%. They will tell you that 'they're adjusting salaries to market' but it's not really a thing. If you wanna earn a lot of money (especially in sales) go elsewhere. Negotiation/salary increase/promotion is rather symbolic and the promotion process has been criticized many times by employees yet nothing much has changed. There's a bigger change of getting promoted if you're 'visible' than getting rewarded for your hard work. That means there's a very little chance to get a proper salary increase regardless if you're a senior or not. Fun fact: Even MS managers tend to say - if you want a raise, quit and come back after 2 years.

2. Taxation in Ireland is ridiculously high -> keep that in mind when considering an offer. Income tax is around 40% and bonuses are taxed 50%! Big chunk of sales salary is a bonus... so do the math. There's nothing much Microsoft does in order to change it (even though they could, there are special tax schemes that, neither you get any benefits while paying highest taxes in the country. (No free healthcare, no public transport, no free childcare + ridiculously expensive rentals starting from 1700EUR/a month for 1bed apartment).

3. No career growth opportunities in Digital Sales. As a few other people mentioned already, Irish managers are always first to consider, regardless of their experience. That makes it really difficult for anyone else becoming a manager. Other than first line manager position, there's not much available (unless you wanna change position/workload but that's not too much of a change now is it. Finding a job outside of Digital Sales is very challenging and can take years (although it's possible).

4. Visibility Bubble. You'll keep seeing and hearing the same faces getting rewarded/awarded/highlighted etc.

Advice to Management

1. Be truly diverse -> Hire more non-irish folks as managers!

2. Stop the 'visibility game' once and for all.

----------------

Pros

Microsoft is hands down the best company I worked with when it comes to culture and embracing growth mindset. Everyone at the company is super helpful and approachable and you do learn a lot. This is not true in Inside Sales though.

I would recommend joining Microsoft over any other company but not Inside Sales.

Cons

Can you guys do me a favour and please upvote this if you agree with me? I don't care about upvotes, I just want Microsoft to realize that the majority of people are on the same page when HR read those reviews.

Coming from someone who has tried several roles at Microsoft, I think I am more than qualified to talk about my Inside Sales experience and how it compares to other roles.

1. The pay is a JOKE: Look, Dublin is in a SERIOUS SERIOUS housing crisis, which means that the salary you give is terrible based on what the living costs are. I can't believe a company like Microsoft gives those kinds of salaries in such an expensive city. But of course, who cares? The managers are at least above level 62 which means that they are super comfortable so why would they care? I'm not the first person who's mentioning the low salary. You need to revise this carefully and AT LEAST give a housing allowance. There is no budget is IMHO, a way to say: 'I am just not bothered to fight for this'. Of course there is no budget, do you think that upper management are just going to embrace us with their kindness and decide to raise salaries or give housing allowance without us fighting for it?

2. Inside Sales at Microsoft is a 'hire anyone' philosophy. If you are expecting to work with talented and driven people, then look elsewhere. In my previous roles, I was working with super talented people because getting into those roles means that you have a lot to offer. In Inside Sales, they literally hire anyone. This is not a knock on the people I work with, it's just the fact that working at Microsoft comes with the expectation that you will work with talented people, which is true for other roles, but not Inside Sales.

3. Visibility bubble: If you are smashing your numbers, I get it - you earned that visibility. But stop ccing managers whenever you breath. 99% of initiatives are pointless and add ZERO value. Upper management have no clue about the ins and outs of the job so they reward those with a lot of initiatives. I CANT stand this. I used to be a customer engineer at Microsoft and unless my initiatives bring clear measurable results, then they are pointless.

4. Management: Guys, trust me when I say this. If you are at Inside Sales, you did not experience the Microsoft management philosophy. I worked with amazing managers in other organizations. So Microsoft, do yourself a favour and just get rid of all Inside Sales managers. How on earth do you become a manager if: You have zero empathy, you have no clue or even desire to understand the ins and outs of the job, you are a terrible communicator, and you have no clue how to inspire a team. Why are you a manager? To read some Power BI reports and approve vacations? Someone just please tell me. Maybe I am missing something.

Advice to Management

What's so difficult about giving housing allowance as a way to counter the housing crisis of this city? What is so difficult?

Btw, every other country has car allowance (at all levels) and health perks for anything fitness related (50% discount).

And no, shared accommodation is not an option for everyone. What if you have a family or thinking of starting a family? This is ridiculous. I am working at Microsoft. People in other countries (and expensive cities like London) laugh at me when I tell them I have shared accommodation.

Flinty997

You need to leverage your experience at Microsoft to get a job somewhere else and leave it and/or Ireland.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119558854#Comment_119558854

I think it depends on where and in which role of Microsoft Dublin you're working in. The statements only concern their inside sales/customer relations roles, called "Digital Sales". Also the statements are how an international audience is describing all the challenges they are facing there.

Microsoft looks good on your CV, the certifications will all give you at some point a competitive edge on the market, and yes, the office in Sandyford is awesome. But that's all about it.

If you're Irish, you're more likely to get promoted ( diversity and inclusion is just a shallow word there), many managers are often questionable regarding their competence sometimes even childish and the cost of housing and the salary in relation is probably the worst anywhere in Europe and a shock for most internationals working there.

Also starting a family is impossible, cost of living and housing will see to that. Thus there is always coming and going of employees there.

Other companies like HubSpot have relocated their inside sales roles for DACH to Berlin in Germany as they can't find anybody to move to Dublin. Whether that's a good move or not, I can't judge, Berlin often has a set of different problems as a city. Housing isn't better there than in Dublin but cheaper.

Flinty997

If I was younger I wouldn't be in Dublin. Anyone who can with sense should go see the world.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119559060#Comment_119559060

I know. Unfortunately HR of all these multinational companies doesn't understand that.

They want to hire people in their late 20ies and their 30ies. However they should focus on candidates between 45 and 55, those who would have made their money overseas and are keen to return to Dublin, buy a property and are able to afford it. It's by far more motivating at any stage and they would also stay longer, making business more serious and predictable.

Somebody in their late 20ies and their 30ies simply won't be happy and motivated, even if it's Microsoft, or Salesforce, especially if it means spending 1000 to 1300 Euros and upwards for a room in a shared property, if you're lucky one has an en-suite. It just doesn't work that way. Either it's stubbornness or a requirement given by their HQ in the US?

Flinty997

I think this is why many older techies turn to contracting, consultancy, or multiple streams of income, micro incomes, not necessarily in Tech.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119559428#Comment_119559428

I've seen that as well. It may not be necessary for these roles.

Salesforce and Microsoft sometimes pay a basic salary of 70 to 90 k, and commission on top of that for inside sales/inside account management it IT knowledge and fluent foreign language skills. Google and Facebook/Meta may be in the same range.

Anybody in the age group of 45 to 55 wishing to return to Dublin would find that sort of salary range attractive in the long run.

Their seniority at their age would be their success, and their financial background and savings would allow them to buy a property and support a family.

Thus it would be a stable solution.

Serious client relationship and account management is way better if the relationship is long lasting.

However HR and various hiring managers in these companies focus on the late 20ies to the 30ies and below 40 age group and they only stay around for a short period due to the high cost of living and renting, plus still wanting to see a bit of the world. Long lasting client relationships are not made there.

carlandlenny

Just seen this thread. I posted a similar one back in May, basically 57, self employed, business bad, looking for work, Level 9 in IT.

Basically since then I've sent my CV to about 20 agencies and applied for about a dozen jobs. In all that I just received one single acknowledgment of my CV saying thanks for it. My CV is just 2 pages, 80% about my existing work. I have a third page (actually first, a cover letter) stating that I'm willing to consider any roles they think I may be suitable for. Absolutely zero response.

Flinty997

This might be of interest

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119560187#Comment_119560187

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119560187#Comment_119560187

I think hiring IT managers as well as HR should overcome their pride and hire older and more experienced candidates as well. Also older candidates are the ones with a financial background, either owning properties or having enough to buy, and won't be complaining about renting a room for 1200 Euros in Dublin.

At age 57 one can easily work until 67, In IT we're not bricklayers or car mechanics doing manual labour thus it's not physically demanding as well.

It's ironically funny that Microsoft Dublin re-posts all these digital sales roles every week, as they can't find anybody and those who apply and worked in the industry a long time get rejected almost immediately.

Flinty997

I respect your opinion, and don't disagree. But I think this is ingrained corporate tech culture and we'll all be retired by the time, (or if) it ever changes.

carlandlenny

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119560498#Comment_119560498

That links to my post! If it's in this thread just say the post number?

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119560614#Comment_119560614

It's certainly part of it, I'd say.

However it's also part of all the lies.

Microsoft Dublin is one of these companies, where the LGBTQ Rainbow flag is always out and about in the office.

Diversity and Inclusion are sadly shallow words. Shouldn't it also include the older more experienced people as well? - While sexual orientation should be a private subject.

Also the slogan "We empower each and everyone to achieve more". Aren't we all part of each and everyone? Then hire us more experienced guys as well to be empowered to achieve more....

That's the perverse part of it.