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Help!!! Newbie needs an EV!!

  • 24-08-2022 11:40am
    Registered Users Posts: 6,391 ✭✭✭

    Due to circumstances I'm in a position where I pretty much need to buy an EV (or at least it doesn't make much sense not to if something suitable was available)

    I need something with a range of around 300km (It will be getting regular medium to long distance miles but it will be mostly overnight charging)

    What models should I be looking at?.....I was thinking Model 3, ID4, Ioniq 5, Kona, are there any others I should be considering? Which ones are more reliable an comprehensive with warranty.......

    Can you still get hit with large costs fixing these things even when under warranty (as things arent covered)...........Are some of the manufacturers more reliable to deal with if there is a problem on a new could you find yourself waiting weeks to get an issue sorted with a new Tesla vs the other manufacturers getting it sorted quick (or vice versa) for example?

    In terms of availability/waiting long am I looking at, should I put name down now it better to go ringing/traipsing around garages

    Does used nearly new make sense...presumably theres no 5k grant etc.....

    I was thinking of buying a cheap 2nd hand diesel for a year but the more I think about the more it looks like sinking money into something Ill have to shift and I could just put the money towards an EV now and swallow the cost....even though I'd really rather there an argument for waiting to see what models come out next year and buy the diesel?

    Any help/opinions appreciated....or even suggestions for starting point.........bit at sea here!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭Miscreant

    Unless you are very lucky to find a new EV that is just sitting in stock, you will be waiting until at least Q1 of next year for a delivery. I have even heard of delivery times well into the first half of 2023. There is a complete lack of new EVs available for purchase immediately.

    Second-hand prices for a ~300km EV at the moment are pretty close to the prices those cars were when new (even for cars registered in 2019) so they don't represent good value at the moment (IMO)... Great for those selling though.

    There is no 5k grant on a second-hand EV as this has already been accounted for when the car was originally bought.

    Items requiring a warranty repair are free, but you could be waiting for parts.... It is a "how long is a piece of string" calculation though depending on what is wrong. I was waiting 2 weeks for a charge door actuator for my Ioniq recently, for example. This is the same for ICE cars anyway as parts are an issue for them too.

    There are plenty of used ICE vehicles out there at the moment and you could go for a Hybrid or PHEV if you are leaning towards an electrified power train.

    Other than that, you have not given your budget or requirements for the car. A Renault Zoe could meet your needs (the 50kWh model) but it might be too small. A used Model S could be available, but outside of what you are willing to pay. Your budget and vehicle requirements are key here....

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,074 ✭✭✭eagerv

    Of the cars you have mentioned, possibly the Model 3 would be available in a short period. The present timing with ships arriving may mean that due to cancellations/extra consignments that a car might become available in a few weeks. Not sure with others, but VW also seem to be coming on stream again.

    Should also have no problem with your range requirements, Model 3 probably one of the most efficient cars out there, high standard equipment included such as heat pump.

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,955 ✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin

    Okay so for 300km range you'd be looking at something like an ID.4 or similar. I drove 260km recently and only used 60% of the battery so that'll cover the distance easily

    However it's worth balancing the range you want against what you actually need

    For example if your daily commute is 50km then almost any EV will cover that. If you make a 300km roundtrip once a week (for example, visiting the parents) then perhaps you can fit a destination charger, so you only need 150km range.

    Or if you live on a route well served by public charging then you might plan in a charging stop

    This can mean you can save several thousand on buying a car at the expense of some of your leisure time

    Now, as for actually getting an EV, that's where the bad news begins

    Many brands have stopped taking orders for this year, so you're often looking at 2023 delivery. Any that come up this year are usually cancelled orders and get snapped up very quickly, often a higher than the list price

    If you've your heart set on a new car then I recommend going around various dealerships and brands and seeing what you can get

    If you want one sooner then you'll need to consider second hand. Unfortunately demand is high at the moment and people are often selling a 2 year old EV for what they paid for it a few years back. Some are even turning a profit

    This is where you'll need to make those decisions on what range you need and what you're willing to pay. You might be able to get away with a 2nd hand Leaf40 for range which you can have tomorrow for just under €22k (still an inflated price IMO)

    Most second hand cars will already have the grant claimed, and in theory the price reflects this, but read my previous comments regarding the second hand market

    In terms of maintenance, EVs are generally lower maintenance than ICE vehicles. In 5 years of owning a 2016 Leaf it's only needed a new set of tyres (they were worn when I bought it) and a brake fluid change. When they do break, they can break pretty badly, however the manufactuer warranties should cover anything in the first few years

    I'd also look closely at the mechanics of getting a home charger installed. IMO owning an EV is much easier if you have a home charger. The grant was recently opened to all houses, but if you're in an apartment for example then the actual process of getting a charger installed can be fairly head wrecking

    It might also be worth enquiring with your employer about getting a work charger installed. Again if you can reliably charge at work then it means you might get away with a cheaper EV

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,391 ✭✭✭amacca

    Budget ....around 50 to 60k

    I'd like cheaper though and assuming I'd get the 5k anywhere from 45k to 55k cost to me.

    I think I'd be unhappy in something like zoe (that small hatchback size) for that money.... we were thinking about a used leaf for short range shopping type stuff a year or two ago but the regular longish distance I'd be travelling would put me off a smaller sized car....the money I'd be putting in would make me unhappy with a smaller size real logic there but I'd like to walk away somewhat happy with purchase.....

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,391 ✭✭✭amacca

    With the model 3, is it pay to play? .deposit to join a waiting list and then forfeit if you decide not to buy and go for alternative instead?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,344 ✭✭✭Thoie

    As others have said, you're looking at next year for a new car from most manufacturers. Add the new (2022 model) MG ZS to your shopping list as well. I got mine about a month ago, and very pleased with it so far. Like some others, they have a 7 year warranty and a nominal range of 440km. Limited colour options.

    There's a new Kira Niro coming out as well with a nominal range of 460km. Something like a Renault Zoe would have the range you're looking for too, and they're available second hand as they've been around a bit longer.

    As the poster above said, access to your own home charger is ideal rather than depending on public chargers which may not always be available.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭Thumper Long

    Aye €250 to role the dice, big positive is the price gets locked in, at present there are inventory cars popping up with 2-3 week delivery, failing that it could be December time the next deliveries take place if not Q1 2023

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,391 ✭✭✭amacca

    Thanks for the comments, appreciate them...

    On the home charging....that bit isn't a problem...I can install one wherever

    On the destination charging....not a hope....the destinations will be changing so I'll have to get familiar with where chargers are etc.....have heard of people plugging them in with a lead from their hotel bedroom (ground floor) for the night????

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,344 ✭✭✭Thoie

    Mine came with a "granny charger" (a 3 pin plug), but those are a really slow charge. For example, mine says it takes approx 10 hours to charge from 0-100% using the home charger, but using the granny cable it would take about 40 hours. I certainly won't be throwing mine out, but I think it would be an emergency last resort.

    There's an app called ABRP which is quite handy if your destinations are changing quite a bit. Tell it what your car is, what your starting charge is, and where you want to go, and it will build in public charging stops for you in your route planning.

  • Registered Users Posts: 12,651 ✭✭✭✭R.O.R

    We've been offered a couple of new model Niro EV K4's by our Kia dealer, yesterday, so there's probably a few of those available through the network. If you want a new EV immediately, that's probably the only option.

    There are XC40 BEV 231hp Ultimate models due late September / early October and there should still be some available at this stage.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,106 ✭✭✭Paul Kiernan

    I'm getting a Model 3 next month so I've an Ioniq 5 for sale. 6 months old, 6000km. It's a great car. I'm in a real bind whether to sell the Ioniq or the Tesla but one of them will have to go - and fast!

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,074 ✭✭✭eagerv

    More or less correct, but as mentioned price locked in. And with a Euro worth less than a Dollar atm prices will only go one way imo.

    But if you keep a watch on the Tesla site, extra inventory cars do come up, especially now near a delivery period.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,555 ✭✭✭...Ghost...

    If you are ready to buy, then the model 3 is what you need to order. 500km range for the SR+ RWD (base model). You can only pick one option and still avail of the grant.

    default colour is white. You can choose silver, blue, black for €1200 more. Can’t pick red because it’s outside the grant.

    default wheels are 18" Aeros. The 19” are €1700 extra.

    default seats are black. Not sure how much cost is white.

    If you see an inventory car pop up for under €60k, you need to be fast to bag it. You could also select your preferred car by ordering and putting €250 deposit and you might get matched to a car. Pickup would be 2-3 weeks, or closer to Christmas.

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 62,681 CMod ✭✭✭✭unkel

    Model 3 in white is €53k net cost to you last time I looked (after €5k grant)

  • Registered Users Posts: 670 ✭✭✭dingbat

    Model 3 or an ID4 would seem to fit the bill in terms of availability (latter will require some phoning around).

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,391 ✭✭✭amacca

    Stupid question there anyway to knock off price after estimated savings on the Tesla site?....I presume they are doing some sort of calculation with fuel savings deducted...I'd rather do the deductions myself so I can compare like with like

    So base model 3 is approx 54k to me (if I went for one additional option of blue/black/grey...everything else standard) after the 5k grant........ID 4 approx 50k......Ioniq 5 around 52/53k.....


    any other options..........buying from another eu country etc

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,374 ✭✭✭Redfox25

    Select cash price on tesla website.

    Thst would do it

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 62,681 CMod ✭✭✭✭unkel

    Buying from another EU country so you'd have a LHD car? I don't think you've thought that through 😂

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,391 ✭✭✭amacca

    Yeah its under cash price thats slightly odd

    Vehicle subtotal 54k

    seai grant - 5k

    dest & doc fee 980

    Tyre recycling 13.78

    vrt 4k

    Then purchase price...which is what you pay 54k

    then below that price after est.savings..approx 46k....I presume the estimated savings are fuel related? a couple of years worth of savings on fuel at average mileage or something...

    I mean in fairness its pretty clear from purchase price what the cost to you is but it would be interesting to see how the estimated savings have been estimated

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,074 ✭✭✭eagerv

    The base model pricing is simple because the VRT, delivery etc is almost exactly the same as the €5K grant. ie you pay the headline price or thereabouts.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,955 ✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 62,681 CMod ✭✭✭✭unkel

    I don't think they have any EVs in Malta yet 😂

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,955 ✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin

    I'd be surprised, it's literally the easiest place to have an EV. A Leaf with 50% battery health could go from one end to the other

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 62,681 CMod ✭✭✭✭unkel

    I was only kidding of course. There are 12 Leafs for sale in Malta. Cheapest one is €8.5k. Plus the hassle and cost of bringing it over and registering it here. Far cheaper to buy one in Ireland. And don't even try the UK, even without VAT, VRT and import duty, EVs are far more expensive over there now. As usual Ireland is playing catch up! Good for people who want to sell EVs, bad for people who want to buy. You can alleviate this of course by buying a reasonable value new EV and getting the €5k grant. Like a Tesla Model 3.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,391 ✭✭✭amacca

    Fair comment🤣.....I'm just desperately searching around in the dark here for any way to scrimp and save or get more for the money....its a fair wedge for a lad like me....

    Another thing bothering me now is the red puts it over the ceiling for the seai in my head getting it in red would cost me around 7k....I'm willing to pay them the extra for the red ....wish I could make a side pot of that😅

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 62,681 CMod ✭✭✭✭unkel

    For the 300km range you want, the cheapest option is at least €25k for a 2019 Hyundai Kona. Not much else out there second hand for reasonable money that can do it. Tesla Model S from about €33k, same for Kia eNiro. Makes a brand new Model 3 for €53 almost look like a bargain :-)

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭Thumper Long

    I hear ya the red would have been my preference too but the last price increase pushed it over the limit, went with MSM in the end which does look very well especially with the dechromed refresh, sure you could always get it wrapped for a lot less that 7K

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,391 ✭✭✭amacca

    Doing some further thinking

    Would any of the manufacturers be considered a safer bet than another re honoring warranty, getting repairs/sorted quickly etc..or is it as other posters have suggested much of a muchness...and maybe decent insurance gives you an added layer of protection with a replacement car if you do have issues.....I'm probably overthinking it now 😅...but was just thinking existing dealer networks of the likes of volkswagon might be a benefit?....

    Also as there's a possibility I'll be waiting anyway might consider other possibilities..anyone out there with experience of or opinions on kia EV6 kia Niro and the volvo xc40

    Was going to mention mustang until I checked the price.....

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,955 ✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin

    I'd say they're all about as good/bad as each other.

    I suppose one of the biggest problems is if you get a car with a bad battery, it's a very expensive component to replace so car makers won't be quick to replace it under warranty, you might have a struggle to get it done

    This thankfully seems to be very rare though

    I've heard Kia can have some fairly stringent service requirements, but I guess it's their way of ensuring the car gets through the 7 year warranty

    Personally one of the reasons I went with VW was that there's a garage down the road. It means when I need to drop the car in for a service I can just walk home

    As for cars, IMO the EV6 is the best car in its class you can buy right now.

    The Niro is a great car but is getting a bit dated technology wise. It charges fairly slow compared to some more modern cars

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭MightyMunster

    I know Tesla have mobile service engineers that'll come and do fixes at your home/work if possible saving you a trip to a garage. Don't know if anyone else does that.

    Also I know for my wife's last BMW service she had to pay for a days rental from the garage, think around 60Euro while her car was in. Maybe some places give free courtesy cars? Tesla offer loan cars (if available) or 80 Uber voucher.