Prep

cgcsb

Hi everyone, looking for some advice on accessing prep at the gmhs. They say to book appointments on Tuesdays for the following Tuesday but I've looked last Tuesday a couple of times and it said no available appointments. Has anyone experiece with this?

Liberty_Bear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058259903/prep

If you are talking about the GMHS then its booked up for months as far as I know

Try Clinic 6 in the Mater, they have a Prep programme too

Maz2016

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058259903/prep

Hi how did you get on here? I was at clinic 5 (Guide clinic) in St James recently (with a friend) and she told him they haven’t taken on new patients for prep in a year! This is absolutely crazy. She advised him go privately. He didn’t go to St James looking for it but it came up on conversation there

Adderkleet

Every (public) clinic I can find is fully booked. So writing to your TD about how the HSE needs to be funded to expand this program is an option.

And paying about €200 to go private is the other option. There's a clinic on Bath Avenue in Dublin, and Himerus Health (next to GMHS) is another option.

Maz2016

Himerus Health came recommended from st James’ guide clinic

sitstill

I go to Trinity Clinic. It’s only €130 there every 3 months.

Maz2016

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120046645#Comment_120046645

excuse my ignorance but do you choose to go every 3 months or do they ask you to go every 3 months. €520 a year seems a lot just for a prescription for prep

sitstill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120046756#Comment_120046756

You have to go every 3 months because you need regular bloods tests (for kidney function and STIs).

it’s a lot of money but I’d rather pay it than have to go without Prep and potentially contract HIV.

Maz2016

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120046764#Comment_120046764

No, I completely agree. Just think the government should better fund these things

ghostfacekilla

The equivalent of €20 a month in Sweden. Give out!

sitstill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120047405#Comment_120047405

The actual medication is free in Ireland. The charge is for the doctor and the bloods

dave98

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120047405#Comment_120047405

Are you saying that €520 a year isn’t a lot? I’m confused by your “Give Out “. Either way, that works out at €43.33 a month. Which is good to keep you healthy but expensive when you have every other bill to pay for. I think Maz2016’s point is the government should be giving more funding to the clinics in The Mater/St James etc - them not taking on new patients in over a year is either pushing people to private practices where the practice can charge what they like or worryingly people are just not starting prep because they can’t afford to pay the likes of €520 a year to see a doctor

Count Dracula

It should be free across the board. It is a no brainer. The guide clinic massively needs backup on this also. They work tirelessly in there and it is a poor reflection on their hard work and efforts that the back log is as big.

They should introduce a 100% tax rebate on any prep expenses for those choosing it as an option. Not having the facilities or the resources for a wider distribution for everyone is appalling when you think about it.

Every year you will see the politicians role themselves out nodding sternly at the impact HIV has on modern society. One solid day of stern head nodding, they should all be put on the spot this year about complications and access to a free Prep scheme. It is Friday 23 June this year, they should be asked that day and certainly written to before then.

Maz2016

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120049306#Comment_120049306

You are completely right. I went to the guide clinic with a friend of mine and the service the doctor and nurses provided was exceptional. She said they have to turn people down requesting prep appointments daily.

brownej

I attend the GU clinic in Limerick. I have never had an issue getting an appointment. A friend of mine went as as a new patient for the first time in October so they were taking on new patients recently. Perhaps making the trip out of Dublin would work for some people while they wait to get into one of the Dublin clinics.

brownej

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120026651#Comment_120026651

https://www.irishtimes.com/health/2023/01/06/hiv-rates-double-post-pandemic/

This news story is pretty scary. If one cant get an appointment at the clinic how can one even get Prep.

Yes, the government ought to fully fund PREP. In the long run it's cheaper for the exchequer. It's also the morally correct thing to do, not that politics and morality intersect. We have a gay Taoiseach, a physician who ought to insist that funding be made available once and for all. I'm sure some of you here have met or even know him personally. Instead of filming him kissing a guy in a pub you should buttonhole him and shame him in front of everyone and maybe film that interaction.

Yes, €510 is alot of money. If you have health insurance you can claim some of that back. However needs must and you might have to ditch the daily Starbucks or rein in your alcohol consumption or change your phone data plan.

I grew up in the 80s when guys disappeared. One week they were there, next week they were 6 feet under. I lived in the US and with an attorney pal of mine used to travel about NYC as his pro bono work was to draw up wills for PWAs. I saw every type of guy with every **** opportunistic infection known and unknown to medical science, an absolute nightmare and oftentimes a literal shitshow. The faces and interactions of those men are seared into my memory. Nausea, pain, loneliness, sadness were the companions of these men and their bravery and delight in having visitors and their ability to on occasion to crack jokes and laugh through their illnesses amazed me. I remember a young Irish man, 34, a Donnelly visa recipient, alone in his East Village apartment. His friends cared for him, his family in Kildare here didn't care and didn't want to know about him. He was worried at first when he realised I was Irish but we talked and it was ok. Paul died 6 weeks later.

My point in relating this is that most of you have no understanding of what happened with AIDS. All of these men would have sacrificed everything to swallow a pill to stop the progress of their illness let alone prevent their getting infected. Cop on and budget to pay for a doctor. Get a media campaign going to increase funding. Call Kylie Minogue and ask her to endorse your campaign. Once she's on board Leo will be interested.

https://www.life.com/history/behind-the-picture-the-photo-that-changed-the-face-of-aids/

Maz2016

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077079#Comment_120077079

You were going good until you said Cop on and budget to pay for a doctor, not everyone can afford it. Yes €520 a year is only €10 a week but to some people already struggling that is a lot especially when the public clinics provide the service free (but nee patients can’t get appointments) and are forced to go private which in 2023, getting a prescription for prep shouldn’t be a private system matter

dave98

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077079#Comment_120077079

What a condescending post. Most of us do have an understanding of aids - that’s why we want to avail of prep and whatever else we can to stay as safe and healthy as possible.

Your comments about our Taoiseach are also disgusting. Film him for his reaction? Horrible and not the way the situation should be approached. The Kylie/Leo comments? There’s a fine line between bullying and having a laugh - I fail to see anything funny about those comments.

Count Dracula

Probably not appropriate to use the issue as an excuse for swipes at particular politicians. The point I made earlier about writing to them and making sure they were accountable to the issues around obtaining prep, was more aimed at the general lack of concern or priority given by mainstream politicians who feel it is only an issue one day a year?

The issue needs better attention across the board, in particular at a bureaucratic level? The problem is that many don't like their reputations being tarnished, this needs sincere address as it falls into the category of misplaced malign that gets generated to towards anything associated with HIV/AIDs.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120078060#Comment_120078060

Forgive me for being pissed at someone pleading poverty walking about with a €500 phone and attendant price plan. A person in that position needs to consider abstinence, condoms, or forgoing certain privileges-and no,a smartphone is not a necessity- paying for treatment at the moment or being irresponsible or carelessly catching HIV and getting free ARV drugs. Those are the options at the moment.It is pretty difficult to catch HIV-unprotected anal or vaginal sex or via blood. YOu do have to actually work at getting infected.

It's also clear unless you have been offended that I believe free PREP should be available to all and right now please. I have no political axe to grind but fact is Leo Varadkar is head of this government and if he wanted he could do an Reynolds or a Haughey and demand immediate and swift resolution of the problem. Last time I looked I didn't live in North Korea but in democratic Ireland so I'll comment as I see fit. After all previous Taoisigh saw no problem in plunging this country into €80 billion debt over a 12 hour period to save the banks. If this was a priority for out gay leader he would make a couple of million immediately available. Nobody's asking him to build a colony for human habitation on Mars.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120078112#Comment_120078112

Condescending? Totally. Beat being a brown noser. You sound as though you're in awe of Leo or at least a paid up member of Fine Gael.

You clearly don't have an understanding of AIDS. If you're under 40 you can read all you want but you have never had first hand experience of the horror of the disease before ARVs. Have you had the experience of feeding a PWA just to see that same food be sh*t out 3 minutes later because their entire alimentary canal is ulcerated and covered in KS lesions?

In case you hadn't noticed, there's a war in Eastern Europe which could very likely result in a wider conflict endangering the supply of all medicines and that includes ARVs. Once they are not available, the 3000 people with HIV infection in Ireland are on a path to immune system collapse and opportunistic infection and agonizing deaths. It's a real possibility.

Leo Varadkar is head of government and can easily demand that extra funding be allocated to solve this problem.The tax take for 2021 was 64 billion Euros. A couple of million is but a drop in the bucket. He's also a public figure and I'll call it as I see fit.

If the Taoiseach can write the above on his personal notepaper, he can send a letter on the same headed paper.to Stephen Donnelly ordering him to make available funding for PREP throughout the country.

I'm not sure if you know this, but politicians are actually human beings like the rest of us; the skin might be thicker and they may be practiced liars, but at the end of the day, just like you and me they gotta take a dump. Don't put yourself down.

Lighten up. Have a laugh. You make the Dowager Countess of Downton look like the the good fairy. I'm also severely allergic to snowflakes in case you hadn't noticed.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120078202#Comment_120078202

He's a public figure and leader of the government. He's also a member of 2 minorities-non-white and gay-so he should understand discrimination and as a physician he should be aware of the consequences of HIV infection. It's time to pull the finger out. I'd like to remember him as someone who did the right thing, a bit like fellow gay Roderic O'Gorman who at least has a humanity and humility. Despite having a visceral hatred of the Greens, I'll acknowledge that O'Gorman is one of the best people in Dail Eireann and I suspect that his humanity is coloured by his being a gay man

https://www.vox.com/2015/12/1/9828348/ronald-reagan-hiv-aids

https://www.sfgate.com/opinion/openforum/article/Reagan-s-AIDS-Legacy-Silence-equals-death-2751030.php

https://www.aidsmemorial.org/interactive-aids-quilt

Count Dracula

@[Deleted User]

I appreciate your sentiment to a point, but in all fairness I would doubt Leo Varadkar would think any less than a nationwide roll out of free Prep for all, if... , he was in a position to do so? The fact is, whilst he would certainly carry enough weight to ensure some action was taken, like everything else he would have to consider all the factors, he has a responsibility to do so as Taoiseach? But asides from getting my benefit of the doubt on that, I actually don't feel he is the type of politician that needs targeting?

I would rather see all politicians supporting a unilateral response to the rise in cases and I would prefer that issue to get their attention because they actually gave a phuck, as opposed to it being a nice opportunity to enhance their reputation or popularity? Would you not agree that is far more important, than waving contentious argument at head nodding agreeable politicians who will " categorically agree" with your opinion, make a note to their SPAD that they need a better answer to such a line of questioning in the future, whilst actually not giving a toss about the matter?

I reckon most would agree to its' rollout if they were in a position to do so, but I would rather they do it because they actually cared about the matter, as opposed to it being a way of ensuring they don't get any negative feedback, which you are guilty of yourself if you don't mind me adding? I just want to see it becoming less of a hot potato and more of an absolute necessity, finger pointing will never achieve that, most politicians find the issue to glaring for them to become associated with , that's the real problem imo?

And I am not hoping to undermine any feelings you might have about it, but I just don't feel berating Taoisigh is getting anywhere, but making it more than a one day a year issue seriously is, I hope you are getting my point?

Negative feedback? Unsure of what that's about. If it's from people here it's of no import or consequence to me.

I agree with much of what you say, but it's a no brainer. Roll out the clinics and supplement as take up grows. Prevention is better than the cost of treating the condition. There are enough gay politicians to quietly get together and agree that this something to get over the line ASAP. I have a healthy disregard for SPADS and senior civil servants all supping at the tit of the state to feather their own nests and advance their careers.

There's a moral imperative here and today's gay generation don't remember and probably never heard of SILENCE =DEATH

You learn from the Jews and vow never to take **** from anyone again.

bikeman1

@[Deleted User]

HIV is a fully treatable condition with one tablet needed which allows people today have a completely undetectable viral load and live normal and healthy lives. But you know that, but pedal fear and drive the narrative that people go out looking for HIV.

The issue at hand here is not about not knowing how devastating HIV WAS 30 years ago, but having a proper fully funded testing and preventative programme in place for HIV and other STI’s .

dave98

I’m going to end my contribution to the thread here. Apologies to the original poster and the serious contributors the way it went. Cavellaria seems to have made personal attacks and I don’t tolerate that. The Taoiseachs sexual preference should not be brought up in this manner. Asking people to record his reaction shouldn’t be said. His race shouldn’t be brought into it. The Kyle reference is just ridiculous. Now the Jews comment…We both can agree though about you being condescending. I completely understand about aids and I am under 40. I know of someone who died from it back in the late 80’s and anlthough I was only a child I knew this man and every time his LGBT friends speak of his death now, it’s absolutely horrible to listen to.

there is ways and means to get things done. Our health system here is in absolute tatters. Wouldn’t it have been more productive of you to give names of clinics that are taking new patients like someone mentioned Limerick a few posts up.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120084045#Comment_120084045

Yes it is eminently treatable. But people need to have free access to PREP to prevent infection. Even if it is treatable, that does not mean you cannot get HIV related cancer like lymphoma or even Kaposi's Sarcoma on an average CD4 count. Rare but it does happen. Ergo, best not to contract HIV.

I reckon you're 33 or 34 and so have not experienced the horrors of full blown HIV infection. There are men of my generation who have and who understand fully where I come from. They could ask me to tone down my commentary but know I won't.

I never peddled any claim that gay men go looking for HIV. Some do seek to be "pozzed" and that's a fact but in my experience most guys are safe.

(FYI you need to Google pedal v peddle).

Fact:Number of deaths due to AIDS in France 2000-2020

Published by Statista Research Department, Sep 12, 2022

In 2020, there were 144 AIDS-related deaths in France. Since 2010, the yearly number of deaths due to AIDS has ranged from roughly 100 to 190 deaths. During this period, AIDS-related deaths were exceptionally high in 2018 and 2019. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1033306/deaths-due-to-hiv-aids-france/

Men who have sex with men (MSM) account for 70% of all new HIV infections in the United States despite only accounting for 2% of the population. According to the 2019 CDC report, around 53% of HIV-associated deaths (8.373 in total) were are among gay and bisexual men.

https://www.verywellhealth.com/how-many-people-die-from-aids-each-year-49053

Count Dracula

I am not fully convinced you are getting a full grasp on the thread, that's what I am getting from your posts. For someone that is attempting to know more than anyone else on the matter, I am not convinced that you are giving the topic the maturity you are indicating you have?

The fact remains that people living with HIV in this country and most of the rest of the developed world, are more than extremely lucky that their respective governments have decided that a full scale rollout of antivirals is a proper answer to the virus. Not every person in the millions you are quoting has been all that fortunate? South Africa is probably the only country I have read horrific reports on as regards as the lack of availability of a proper supply of anti-virals. I have read of many others.

Which would and should be forcing everyone who is interested in eliminating the spread of the virus to be a lot more resilient in their efforts to ensure that PREP is more accessible to people hoping to benefit from its' circulation getting the option to do so? Harping on about the dark days of the 80's won't stop the spread of HIV in societies which are not supporting free access to antivirals, therein lies a problem which everyone now still faces.

27% of 73 million is almost 20 million too many as far as I am concerned. That should be a big enough statistic to have everyone asking for better support between now and the 23rd June, when the stern head nodding will be in full grim faced open eyed abandon. As I posted earlier, they all need that matter to be brought to their attention. 20 million is a big number of people to be suffering from a virus they really shouldn't be?

bikeman1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120084092#Comment_120084092

There are many reasons why HIV will not be going away. Migration of people around the world and into Ireland from HIV hotspots will continue this trend. A lack of support and education for at risk groups at prevention stage will continue this trend unless proper sti supports are put in place for everyone in this country.

I would be shocked if anyone in Ireland went out seeking a HIV infection. I doubt it is a widespread thing. Maybe some are not too bothered, by their diagnosis but I’d say that’s a reaction rather than something they were seeking out.

Your posts come across as stigmatising people living with HIV. Facts are that U=U and HIV positive people live normal healthy lives.

What this thread is meant to be about is the poor access to Prep which if more readily available for the at risk groups who can’t afford it (think students, migrant workers, low earners), then there would be a reduction in HIV positive infections.

I'm not stigmatizing HIV. My partner died of it 27 years ago and that was when HIV was really stigmatized. When we met he was HIV+ but we took precautions and despite the deaths all round had a great intimate relationship.

I call it as I see it. Clearly that plain speaking is unacceptable in a world populated by a veritable blizzard of snowflakes whose closest interaction with HIV is wearing a red ribbon, provided of course it doesn't clash with ones outfit or involve sharing space with infected people.

And I will say it again, free prep for all, but don't divorce it from the reality of what HIV can do.

Currently there is a massive and increasingly dire shortage of basic antibiotics. Everybody needs those. Do you believe that if there is difficulty procuring HIV meds it will take precedence over antibiotics? You must be joking. Despite all the progress, at the end of the day fags are just fags to the majority of people.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120084189#Comment_120084189

Are you blind? How many goddamned times do I have to state that I support a fully funded roll out of free PREP? How do I know more about the subject? I have an experience of it and am trying to get across to you what it actually is because you clearly cannot grasp what it is. Yes it's treatable, but you don't want to fcuking get it because its still incurable. 9 people died in this EU country of AIDS in 2020, Ireland. The treatment does not work for everyone.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/b13099e815d9f1977820ae4c30d062e2/tenor.gif?itemid=12371798

AllForIt

Prep is a drug for people who are intent on being promiscuous, it's not like a Covid jab.

Therefore it should not be free except for people who have no means, imo.

sitstill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120114022#Comment_120114022

That is very judgemental and potentially homophobic.

PrEP is a drug to prevent people who are at high risk of becoming HIV+ from contracting the disease (primarily gay men). It should be fully funded by the state as it is cheaper for the health service to fund PrEP than it would be to treat these infections.

Breezer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120114022#Comment_120114022

Like the contraceptive pill, yeah?

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120122007#Comment_120122007

Not really, contraceptive pills are taken in large numbers by people who are in monogamous relationships, because they don't want or are suspending having offspring. There would be no point in taking Prep in a monogamous relationship, if they are truly monogamous of course.

Breezer

There would be if one partner had HIV. PrEP is regularly used in this situation.

Contraceptive pills are also used in large numbers by people who are not in monogamous relationships. Should we go back to the days of only letting people who are married access contraception?

No doctor worth their salt judges between “good illness” and “bad illness”. Inhalers are used in large numbers by people who smoke. Diabetes medications are used in large numbers by people who eat the wrong things. Yet all this care is provided for free (albeit sometimes only in hospitals, in this country. Stated Government policy is to move towards universal care, and PrEP is an example of that).

Even if you want to purely look at the economics of it, PrEP is a generic medicine that is available cheaply. HIV treatment is expensive. It makes sense for the taxpayer’s pocket to prevent HIV by paying for PrEP.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120123571#Comment_120123571

This is all a socialist policy regarding situations that aren't a 'pandemic'.

This isn't the 1980's and there is no HiV pandemic, therefore people should pay for their drugs if they can afford it.

Breezer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120127401#Comment_120127401

So is it “socialism” you’re against, or “promiscuity”? I’m aware it’s not the 1980s. I’m not the one sounding like Reagan here.

I’m far from a socialist, quite the opposite really. However, we live in a society where the elected representatives more or less unanimously agree that healthcare should be universally free at the point of access. You may object to that in principle, and you may have sound economic reasons for that, but if so, you’ve a bigger issue on your hands than free PrEP.

I’m not convinced your argument is primarily a considered, economic one though, because “promiscuity” wouldn’t come into that sort of an argument. It tends to come up in arguments where one person wants to enforce their arbitrary moral standards on everybody else. The type of argument that was common in this country in the 1980s. How was our economy doing back then?

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120128630#Comment_120128630

It would actually because all gay man are not promiscuous like me therefore i have to pay though a socialist health tax system for other peoples drugs to protect them from the dangers of a lifestyle I have no interest in endorsing.

And I never said I have any objection to promiscuity per se, and I never referenced homosexual promiscuity either, because clearly anyone including heterosexuals can be promiscuous.

All I said was people who are promiscuous, or have regular partners if you prefer since you seem to be so touchy about the term promiscuous, should pay for their drugs.

Count Dracula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120127401#Comment_120127401

You don't have a notion what you are talking about.

brownej

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120132570#Comment_120132570

We can extend this argument, Why should I be paying for your kids to be educated, children's allowance etc. If you choose to have them you should pay for them. This socialist nonsense of education, healthcare etc. If the poor cant afford to live then that seems like a them problem..... And the gays. Well they should know their place.

Trolls be trolling, because if you actually believe that stuff then I pity you...

Breezer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120132570#Comment_120132570

All I said was people who are promiscuous, or have regular partners if you prefer since you seem to be so touchy about the term promiscuous, should pay for their drugs.

No issue with the word. My issue is with the idea that an arbitrary moral standard should be used as a criterion for the provision of healthcare.

I’ll leave it there, there’s not a lot I can add.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120132570#Comment_120132570

Is your first name Enoch?

Maz2016

I got prep for the first time this week myself through a private clinic in Dublin. It will be €130 every 3 months. Pretty straightforward. Urine test, bloods taken and given a 3 month repeat prescription and asked to wait before the doctor calls with the go ahead from bloods results before getting the medication.

bazbai4

I moved to Dublin last year for college and have been sleeping around a bit but always use condoms. I don’t mind using them but obviously in an ideal world would prefer to go without. Curious as to others views on this and your reasons for using Prep? Just wondering is it worth going on. I’d have to go public as I couldn’t afford the private cost as a student.

Maz2016

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120203698#Comment_120203698

That’s the thing though, you can’t seem to go public in Dublin at the moment - for the past 12 months! You can around the country. I’m the same, always use condoms. I slept with someone a few months back where I bottomed. After he came, we only then realised the condom had split so he had cum inside me. I asked if he gets checked out regularly and he said yeah, don’t worry but I did worry. Went on a month supply of pep the following morning. Had blood tests, urine tests and throat/anal swab that day, at 2 months and 3 months and all came back clear. It frightened me though so I started prep as an extra precaution. I’m only on it a week. It’s an added layer of security. The GP I went to couldn’t have praised it enough. Told me I’d be covered after 4 days of taking it. But I completely agree €520 a year to see the GP is not feesable for a student

bazbai4

Thanks. Didn’t realise it wasn’t available publicly in Dublin at the moment - surely this is madness. I know guys here who are chancing going bareback and doubt they are all paying for Prep privately so there is a big risk it not being publicly available.

I don’t see myself having a regular partner for sex for the foreseeable so was curious about prep while I have different partners. I prob would still use condoms but if you did go bareback you’d have Prep. As you say the cost isn’t feasible from a student perspective. At least the students union gives out plenty free condoms!

Maz2016

There maybe somewhere in Dublin where it’s free - I’m open to correction but I know Mater weren’t taking new patients and St James haven’t in well over a year. I rang St James’ and asked what were my options She recommended the clinic I used last week. I’d agree, if people aren’t getting prep for free, I’d wonder how many actually use/pay for it.

Annasopra

So sad that people think the risks of bareback are ok.

Maz2016

Very sad. And could potentially cost the state more in the long run