How to heat this 'ol house?

SwordofLight

Hi All,

I've a dilemma with what heating to put in.

The house is really old, a defunct oil boiler and about 12 radiators over 3 floors.

Because I'm going to do rent a room with two bedrooms, I'll have students staying, and I worry about the elec bills for panel heaters this winter.

Options:

A new oil boiler. There's no side entrance and oil would need to come through the house. I've no idea what condition the central heating pipes are in, under pressure there might be leaks. Cost of a new boiler and fitting etc scares me. Maybe I could put it on a timer for the students, a few hours at intervals during the day.

A new gas boiler. Cost of Bord Gais bringing in gas, plus the boiler and install. Same scenario with the timer I guess.

Wall mounted panel heaters. Maybe there are new ones now which are better for energy consumption, I saw Ecovolt seems good. Could put one into each room, but unsure about the loads - think each circuit has a 20A breaker and about 8 twin sockets off it, but if each of the three rooms are using a panel heater and other things like hairdryer or whatever, maybe it would trip? Don't know. Is there a way to provide the student with a base elec reading and then show them their usage? I don't think this is possible because the sockets are probably all branched off one another, radial circuit style, unless could put one on the actual panel heater socket.

Storage heaters. Would need too many and they are damn expensive.

Fitting each radiator with an electric element. Means I wouldn't have to take the radiators out of the rooms, could maybe link them as above to some gadget that monitors and tracks usage so the student and myself are aware of it and usage is fair. But the cost of electric elements must be a lot I'm guessing. I've never seen them used in Ireland.

Don't know if the gubberment have any schemes going for heating or insulation in old houses?

Any ideas appreciated.

Sleeper12

I'd rule out any electric heating.

Storage heaters need night rate electricity to come anywhere near the cost of oil or gas. Applying for a night meter now you most likely won't get one until 2023.

No electric heater is more efficient than another despite claims by business selling them. All electric heaters are 100% efficient. The problem is that electricity is so expensive that gas or oil is cheaper.

Lenar3556

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058259810/how-to-heat-this-ol-house

Everything you mention is possible, it’s a question of cost and viability.

If it was me, I would be looking at electric heating, and individual metering for each room. It likely brings about an effective solution at the minimum outlay, and the cost/temp can be effectively managed by the tenant on an individual basis.

brokenangel

get a plumber and they can test if leaks

Oil or gas well that’s your choice, in reality the push is towards gas as oil is moved away from. When I had a house like that and could connect to gas I did it to replace oil, getting rid of tank etc

I put in attic as that made sense. You need to price but Bord Gais running is not huge, finding a spot to get boiler in could be issue and that’s why I put in attic

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119508895#Comment_119508895

Electric heaters will end up costing an absolute fortune. Way more than oil or gas

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119506518#Comment_119506518

They work give night meter, they will give smart meter,

I have night meter and current smart meter rates are higher than the old night meter so it will cost more than ever

Sleeper12

Yes they will give a smart meter. The problem is that so many people are looking for a smart meter at the moment that the waiting list is very long. OP Could be lucky & live in an area where they are actively rolling out smart meters. I requested one a few months ago and it's unlikely I will have one this side of Christmas here in Dublin.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119508928#Comment_119508928

Well the bigger issue with smart meters is the ESB plan was to order as they go along, which means the back log is because they can't get supply. I have an electric car and most people with an existing day/night meter are rejecting the smart meter because it increases the cost.

But people with solar have to get smart if they want to finally see something on FiT.

A bit off topic but even with smart/day & night the cost to heat a house using electric would be astronomical.

If it was me, can you salvage the oil boiler? if not plenty knocking around on adverts/donedeal etc you could maybe install and then spend money on insulation if budget is tight. Then look at a longer term solution.

Government have plenty of schemes but normally you find they will cost an arm & leg. Try to get oil up and running and then insulate the house!!

Don't mind all the talk of those IR/panel heaters. They are just a modern version of an electric heater and will cost just as much once you dont have the right insulation

SwordofLight

I have a smart meter? I queried if changing to it would mean more expense and they said no. Are you saying I'm paying a higher rate because I have a smart meter? What advantage could that give if I go for a panel heater solution~?

I like the idea of a lodger being able to track their own elec usage and that way it stays fair. I figure by the time I have a gas or oil boiler in and working, the cost will outweigh what the difference is per kwh over a few years using panel heaters.

Good shout with the second hand oil boiler, yes I could probably fit it, I wonder how much it would cost to put on every few hours during the winter, the electricity it uses and the oil?

If can weigh up the cost per hour elec versus oil. Any idea.

Sleeper12

Having a smart meter doesn't mean that you have to opt into smart tariffs. I'm guessing you aren't on a smart tariff

SwordofLight

No, I was actually annoyed when I selected to move on to some smart scheme, and all of a sudden when I had signed up it presented me with about 10 'smart' schemes, which leads me to believe I've been hoodwinked by them and will have to buy some form of smart scheme in the not too distant future. I didn't know we had an option not to get the smart meter, they phoned me relentlessly saying it was a necessary government upgrade so i had to allow it.

Gael23

Had you considered an air mattress to water heat pump? You can get financial support from SEAI

Bass Reeves

This guy up in Tyrone refurbish's boilers that are recovered from gas installs. I contact a plumber and see what he thinks.

If you were confident enough you could buy one that was just removed. However you will need to get a plumber to fit. I definitely consider the fixing up your oil ahead of any other system. If you can get a good plumber who may be able to source a second hand boiler for you.

What sort of oil tank do you have. If it's an old steel one replace it as it will leak. The lad in Tyrone seems to have second hand tanks as well. Try to get a 1200L+ tank. Oil delivered in 1k L lots is discounted compared to 500L fills. Tanker drivers are used to making deliveries through houses. For your own peace if mind considered getting a 1m wide tarpaulin that will run from front to back of your house. This will prevent any accidents.

How long is the old oil boiler not used is the heating system still containing water.

Lenar3556

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119512529#Comment_119512529

Comparing the running costs of oil/gas vs electric heating is best done per Kw/h, but electricity is arguably 100% efficient (there are little or no energy losses in converting it into heat) There will be losses in the order of 20%+ on a gas/oil system, so that needs to be factored.

Energia’s current 24HR rate is €0.2649 per kWh incl. VAT

A litre of home heating oil has a gross energy content of 10.1KWh. So based on a price of €1.28 per litre, 1 KWh of heat generated using oil would cost €0.1280. That seems like half the price, but the natural losses and inefficiency’s in oil/gas will close that gap somewhat.

Night rate electricity / storage heaters may in fact return a lower operating cost than oil/gas at present.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119513301#Comment_119513301

The problem with night rate and it why there has been a movement away from it in the last twenty years is that its completely ineffective if you want to heat a house in the evenings.

If he has Students staying it's doubly so. I think the cheapest is oil. It peculiar but 40years ago oil was the cheapest it's amazing it still is. The reality is all other forms of energy track oil in price. We will not oy get away from that until the price link is broken

Lenar3556

The problem with storage heating is the limited options to control it on a given day - the input requirements need to be set the previous day. I wouldn’t agree that they are ineffective in the evenings, those fitted in my office can still provide a decent output at 11pm at night - it’s a matter of setting the input and output controls correctly.

Oil cheaper for who though? It’s likely a much higher install / refurb cost, is not really individually billable to tenants. And there is no return on investment. To my mind it would be a very poor choice in this case. - A private family home would be a different use case, although if there is access to a NAT Gas pipeline, that would likely to be more cost effective than oil.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119523600#Comment_119523600

You can't individually bill tenant's fir the energy they use in a room unless you put an individual meter in that can accurately read the usage. As well you have to acknowledge the fact that this house seems to be poorly insulated and is a cold house.

No matter what system he chooses it's going to costs. Installing a new storage heating system will be quite expensive. Gas or oil will have the boiler cost and hoping the rest of the plumbing is ok. Gas will probably be more expensive than oil to install because it a completely new fit and connecting it to the plumbing.

All indications is that gas will be more expensive than oil for the next 2ish years

SwordofLight

I've been thinking maybe a mixed system is best - put the oil heating on for a few hours during the morning and evening, and if the lodgers want to heat the room further provide an oil filled radiator (for safety) with a consumption tracker on it.

The guy in Tyrone doing oil boilers, if you get a chance Bass you might PM me the details. I wonder if it is expensive to have someone service the one there, although it is all rusted and hasn't been used for a few years. Presumably the system needs to be flushed out aswell.

I think storage heaters are just too expensive. Panel heaters would work in the bedrooms etc but the problem arises with the bathrooms, I'd need to wire in electric towel rads etc.

Wearb

@Bass Reeves Please use the pm function to send link to OP