tenant Overloading

Clarionclub

Hi . Looking for some advice , please . We bought a house in Oct 2021 with a tenant living there , firstly we bought this house as it was the only thing we could afford and because there was a tenant it turned others bidding on it as we were out bidded on every house we looked at .

The tenant seemed a nice girl with 3 kids and eager to move, receiving Hap payment , we knew from day one that her partner was living there even though he is not supposed to be but ignored , gave her the proper eviction time etc and we never bothered her as took her at her word she would be gone. Unfortunately on the day we were to get the key from her she text to say postponing the move as the emergency accommodation she was provided with was too far , to say we were devastated is an under statement .

I called to the house and pleaded with her. Myself , husband and 2 daughters are living in 1 bedroom since February in a relatives home.

I am wondering if I should I tell her that i will report her as her partner is self employed and they are not badly off and have family in the area also, I am finding it hard to sit back and do nothing .

I know its a rotten thing to do but the way I look at it now is that what she has done to my family is rotten also. has anyone any tips or experience in this , I've lodged my dispute with the RTB and my solicitor said I can't do anything until then but I can't wait months for this , Heartbroken. Very unfair system , to do everything thing right legally and its doesn't matter.



😔

mcsean2163

It's probably best just to go with the rtb and solicitor. Looks like you got caught out but also the tenant may be caught out too as there is so little available rentals.

It's sounds really upsetting for you but not sure the benefit of souring the relationship further.

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119497378#Comment_119497378

It's sh*t for the tenant but that's just the reality of the market at present. The house I was renting for the past 9 years was sold earlier this summer and I'm now back at home at 40 years of age because I couldn't find anything else. Would never have dreamed of overholding, though.

wildwillow

Reporting her won't help you. She would find it more difficult to move without HAP. The system is unfair and, in reality, you would have been well advised not to buy that property with a sitting tenant.

Your best bet may be to pay her to move out. Legislation has swung too far in favour of the tenant. If she decides to stay put, and even not pay rent, you could be looking at legal bills and a delay of years. Then thrash the house before she moves out.

This isn't what you want to hear but it is the reality of the situation.

Clarionclub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119497395#Comment_119497395

Ya i agree s.. for tenant too but she was offered accommodation by the council and refused it , I didn't have that privilege and saved and borrowed while she and her partner both work and yet expect a property from the council where they want it ! I was also in rental and and like yourself had the decency to move when asked

mcsean2163

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119497395#Comment_119497395

"a nice girl with 3 kids"

She may not have the option to move back in with her parents.

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119497482#Comment_119497482

That may be the case, but it's not the OP's problem. Especially when her own family of four is stuck living in one room in someone else's house.

dennyk

If you do a cash-for-keys deal (which might be the only way to resolve this quickly), make certain you don't give them a penny until you have the "keys", and by that I mean the tenant, their partner, their kids, and every scrap of their belongings are completely removed from the property before you hand over any money. And once you do pay them, make certain you or someone else you trust is physically present in the house at all times until you've changed the locks, and do not let your former tenant or her family back in for any reason, not even to "get something they forgot". If you hand them the cash and then leave the place empty for a day or two while you're arranging to have the locks changed, you might come back to find they've let themselves back in with a copy of your key and have taken up residence again, and the guards won't help you because they'll just claim to be your tenants.

Gmaximum

Raise a case for overholding, don’t report them to social welfare as you run the risk of HaP payments to you stopping.

then as above hope they continue to pay rent and offer them money to leave

Sadly, I've seen a fair bit of bit of this over the years & advise NEVER purchase with a 'sitting' tenant..... as a general rule it always goes this way.....which begs the question of why didn't prior owner cross the t's & dot the i's? Anyhow, hindsight is zero use to the OP. Being Frank, the tenant now holds the 'aces' & there's v little solace for the new owner ..... who I assume is NOT receiving any €€ / rent ( this'll sound odd but OP is better off NOT taking rent). OP is certainly entitled to attempt the 'cash for keys' route but as other posters said this can be a bit of quicksand for the OP....... it often ends up as a "good money after bad" scenario. It's a horrible situation for OP who has done nothing wrong, jumped through all the hoops, laid their €€ down & ends up with nothing but hassle/ grief. The RTB/ legal route is a 'slow' burner while the 'nice girl with 3 kids' is on the pigs back. I've been a landlord for over 2 decades ( fortunately, 99% of tenants are/were decent good people.....ne're an issue) & this is exactly the carry-on that has landlords fleeing the market in droves. Recourse for the 'LL that gets clipped is non existent

Clarionclub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119497649#Comment_119497649

Hi, Yes i agree I will not be offering her cash , The both have new cars and more money than me. I am still receiving Hap payment and I have told hap that i would prefer also to stop the payment but the said I would be biting off my nose to spite my face but wondering if I did could I did this could I order her to pay the rent then ?The council are not willing to help this girl any further anyway as she has refused accommodation and they have nothing else to offer her , that's why I am thinking of reporting her as the council have washed their hands of her anyway and I have nothing to lose. Oh 😢I don't know what to do

Seth Brundle

could I order her to pay the rent then ?

You have none of the cards here and cannot order her to do anything.

You need to start the official process which probably means declining rent payments and having the paperwork done carefully and double checked as otherwise she'll be there even longer

Subzero3

That's a bad situation, i hope you get it sorted.

Atlantic Dawn

We need a system like in the UK, when you don't pay a cent over a couple of months your landlord takes you to court, ruling made, bailiffs arrive and turf freeloader out on their hole there and then with an hour to pack up belongings.

Subzero3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119497799#Comment_119497799

It might work a few times.. but eventually your house will be burned to the ground or ruined. Lets be honest if a certain ethnic group were renting and got evicted then good luck minding your house.

mrslancaster

...

Icantthinkof1

Do not pay them cash to leave. Unfortunately your only option is to notify the overholding with the PRTB which may take months. Agreed it’s a horrible situation to be in and most unfair. From this point on every communication with the tenant needs to be through writing so you have a record

Also I would be very slow to report her to social welfare right now

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119498277#Comment_119498277

This notion about " reporting to SW" is all nonsense.....its a stupid road to do down. 2reasons........ A) what do you think SW will do??? Just say they investigate ( a big "IF") & find Mr. A is residing there...... tenant will use the tried& tested answers ( he IS the children's father/ oh, he's a mate just staying for a few days / hes my new boyfriend- only met him in a pub last week........... there's loads but you get the 'gist???). So, let's just say they DO FIND MR A is living there.....whats next????don't be naieve enough to talk about 'eviction'.....that won't happen.....Council don't have alternate property....... not to mention tenant going on the 'Joe Duffy' show with tales of harressment, kid has special needs, why are we bringing in so many Ukrainians etc.etc. it won't help the OP whatsoever.

B...... imagine the state of the property when she/ they eventually move on.

-----------------------------------

As advised previously.....THREAD VERY CAREFULLY if considering going down the 'cash for keys' route...... beware the " he touched my breast" angle ( I.e. the €€€ was a pay off & there WON'T be paperwork/ receipt,,,, in effect you could be BUYING even more hassle / problems). Also, this may ( for several thousand euro) get keys but what kind of condition will property be in on opening the door??

Clarionclub

Hi , thanks to all who commented and gave advice on my tenant overloading my family home . I also would like to know can I put up a cctv camera on my house and have it facing the drive , which faces a public road . Would this be legal as I know her partner lives there which she denies ! I just want to to make things awkward and uncomfortable as I need to move into MY HOME with my family . I am clutching at straws here , i know . Just trying to shame her out of my home , its a small village and think she would be embarrassed if she thought people knew what she was doing to us.

Caranica

Your tenant is overHOLDING 😉

You can't access the property in any way without agreement from the tenant unless there's an emergency and the tenant is entitled to privacy so no no no to the camera idea.

You need to do this legally, yes it's frustrating but trying to "shame her out" is disgusting. It's your HOUSE but it's her HOME. I'm not on her side but you really need to take emotion out of this. You made the mistake of buying a tenanted property and have to go through the proper processes to remove that tenant.

Seth Brundle

They are entitled to peaceful use of their home. Why do you think you can stick up security cameras? You have pretty much no right to do this. You bought a rental property despite all advice you were surely given. You now have tenants who are following the system.

Would you just stop trying to punish them in your own petty ways and follow the legal route as it is the only way. Putting up cameras is quite likely to land you in trouble. Doing anything to frustrate the tenant is likely to delay any eviction process and may result in a fine.

In short, you bought a business. Now grow up and start treating it like a business.

Just trying to shame her out of my home

It is not your home and never has been. If you follow the proper legal route then someday it will be.

notAMember

What an awful situation. You can add cctv, but be careful of harassing this person. I know it’s not fair but you have to follow the process.

A friend of mine was in a similar situation, it took him over a year to get the family to move out, but he did it by keeping communication open, being honest about his own situation with his family, not threatening, not harassing.

spakman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119500657#Comment_119500657

Well if you want to look at it that way, the OP owns the HOUSE but is HOMEless!

The tenant is the one behaving in a disgusting manner, the OP is trying to LIVE in her HOUSE.

Clarionclub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119500657#Comment_119500657

I did go through the proper process, she was given 192 days notice..she was offered accommodation by the council and refused it ! Bought this property because was all i could afford , this girl is earning more money than me but difference between her and me is I didn't choose to want everything for nothing . Hard to take emotion out of this when my family and I have been living in 1 bedroom since Feb and even harder watching my kids upset and trying to hide things from them. And i disagree its not her home it mine !! our name on the deeds not hers

Clarionclub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119500662#Comment_119500662

Again followed the proper legal route but that seems to mean nothing yet these tenants can make the law and get away with , how can this be right . Its not her home , she is living in it illegally and is a criminal , got her 192 days notice , offered a house from the council but to far for her was the excuse and refused it , not good enough for me , I moved too far also but had to as it was the only thing i could afford , don't have the privilege like her to be handed a house free . i'm not petty .

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119500662#Comment_119500662

Don't even CONSIDER/ THINK along these lines........cameras will be sprayed/vandelized in first 24hrs anyhow. OP, I totally appreciate this is a nightmare situation on your behalf......... but like I said before.....this is Ireland......the " nice girl with 3 kids" is holding the 'aces' ( as disgusting, frustrating & morally wrong as that may be). You're desperately looking for an angle........believe me, it's all been tried before....... only door open to you is the RTB / legal route

Caranica

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119500703#Comment_119500703

She's still there so the proper processes have not been exhausted.

You've never lived in that house so it's your house, as you said, your names are on the deeds... Of the house. It's still her home. Wrongly, and frustratingly but really.

Have you talked to local TDs? The local papers? There's more than one way to get the spotlight on your tenant.

OP.....FORGET about the whole " her partner/ bf is living there".....thats a total 'red herring'........ you seem to place some value on that information........it HAS NO value

Clarionclub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119500730#Comment_119500730

Can i get td's and local paper involved ? This is the type of info I was looking for , and not to be judged for buying a property with a tenant , thank you,this girl was given a house as i said but decided on day were to get the keys from her sent me a text message to say she was not going to take it.

Clarionclub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119500735#Comment_119500735

Its the only thing i thought i could have value on as she is claiming hap but both are working but i know your right 😔

ButtersSuki

All Robert Troy, he’s an expert in this area.

Joking aside, having been in a similar (but not identical) situation I’d ignore any advice on this thread except that which is legal, as difficult as that sounds. Engage a solicitor and start the RTB eviction process and complaints tomorrow.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119500767#Comment_119500767

FFS. You don't listen. You will only remove her by legal channels via the RTB. Anything else will be deemed as harassment and you will be punished.

Clarionclub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119500794#Comment_119500794

Hi. I have have done all that and have a solicitor also👍️. Robert Troy ?

Caranica

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119500795#Comment_119500795

They can go a TD and local papers. They are living in overcrowded accommodation despite owning a house. They can ask the TD for help to improve their living situation. The papers might be interested in the story too. Neither would count as harassment if they're talking about their own living circumstances.

spakman

Dare I mention Joe Duffy?

Clarionclub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119500795#Comment_119500795

Hi , i am listening😢 no need to be rude ,sorry for been annoying , i didn't realise you were been sarcastic about involving td's and local papers. Think i will stop commenting on this site as unfortunately it has just made me feel worse and feel more stupid than i've already been.I'm sure everyone some time has made stupid decisions, i have made a big mistake in which has made me and my family hopeless for the foreseeable future and this is breaking my heart .Thanks anyway for all your comments but not in the right frame for this .Thanks everyone for your replies

The_Conductor

@Clarionclub you need to lodge a case with the RTB for possession of your property. The system is setup to protect the tenant- and you are a landlord to a tenant, whether you like it or not.

There is no other valid advice to give you- other than to go to the RTB and open a case with them ASAP.

Presumably the tenant will play the system (lodging appeals to the various stages etc) which can draw out the process by anything between 12 and 24 months. This is the system in Ireland- and unfortunately- when you bought a house with a sitting tenant- you signed up to this.

The only valid advice on this thread has been to contact the Residential Tenancies Board and initiate a case against the overholding tenant- there is no other course of action open to you.

Ignore any idea of harrassing the tenant- it will backfire badly on you- seriously don't go there.

Mrs OBumble

Even with the RTB process, the tenant is only going to leave when they have somewhere they're willing to go.

The sooner you can help that to happen, the sooner they will go.

Having the council unwilling to help them is not in your favour.

I would be making enquiries in the area about other houses which they might be able to move to.

Also, if you or your kids are at all desirable to the local school, GAA club whatever- let the know how much you want to move in, and why you cannot.

StrawbsM

I feel your pain OP. Lodge the case with the rtb asap.

In the meantime, let her know that you want to do an inspection at the house. The rtb advise that one is done every 3 months. Organise an inspection for as soon as possible and she cannot refuse. Check absolutely everywhere and everything in the house for stuff like leaks including in the attic. Check the lease and what she is responsible for (ie: has she painted and the paint is on the skirting boards?). If she needs to rectify some issues give her 10 days until you re inspect.

If she has a partner there it will be an inconvenience hiding his stuff away.

B.A._Baracus

Not good op. You're in for some sh*t.

My dad's friend was in your boat 10 years ago. She bought a house with a tenant - who was a 'single' mother with kids and on hap. Took two years after sale to finally get rid of her.

You are going to hear all the excuses under the sun as to why she can't vacate the property now.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119502233#Comment_119502233

Just on your first point - when the process is exhausted and the sheriff is engaged to evict, the tenant will have to leave willingly or not. She will have to present as homeless to the council who might offer her a solution far less desirable than the one she refused.

For the record, working people can claim HAP.

geniejews

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058259602/tenant-overloading

If you are a 100% sure that your served her with a valid NOT and the statutory declaration then you can take her to the RTB for overholding for 15 euro online. Confused with the 192 days, less than 7 years 180 days, 7 to 8 years 196, and over 8 years 224. If you did not serve her with a valid NOT, consult the RTB website and you will have to start again

MakersMark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119500662#Comment_119500662

Awful comments from a Mod.

If its a business, then why is the tenant not obligated by the law too?

This deadbeat dole defrauding tenant has already refused a free house from the Council, and you're telling the OP to grow up???

mrslancaster

Just curious about this, but if the OP, husband and two daughters are living in one room in a relatives home since Feb, over seven months now - would they be classed as homeless?

If they are homeless and can't move into a property they own because the tenant will not leave, can they apply to the LA the same as other families?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119567603#Comment_119567603

The mod is right though.

You rent a place you follow the system. You can't complain about people not following the system then support people who are suggesting what the OP is. It's hypocritical.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119567603#Comment_119567603

Awful comments from a Mod.

Im not a mod of this forum but if you have a problem with my comments that report the post rather than whinge like the above.

If its a business, then why is the tenant not obligated by the law too?

The tenant is obliged but the process to prove that the tenant is so biased towards the tenant and takes so long that a landlord needs to be sure that they follow the law absolutely. Otherwise they will have to resubmit and the clock resets.

This deadbeat dole defrauding tenant has already refused a free house from the Council, and you're telling the OP to grow up???

I suspect that you haven't read the thread carefully. The OP was advised and proposed illegal activities such as harassment if the tenant which could backfire spectacularly against the OP. The OP needs to wise up and do things right. Why would you have an issue with that?

And "deadbeat"???

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119567603#Comment_119567603

You may not agree with Seth’s opinion, but it is the legally correct one. The tenant has the protection of the law, and is entitled to peaceful enjoyment. Unfortunately that applies even if they stop paying rent/overhold.

The_Conductor

As the OP has been clearly and unequivocally given information regarding the only viable/valid options open to him/her, I am closing this thread.

If the OP or anyone else feels they have any other valid observations to impart- please feel free to PM me- however, I am not inclined at this point to reopen this discussion.

Regards.