Can a motoring conviction be quashed upon presentation of new evidence?

damn it · 11-08-2022 11:28am #1

Long story.

I’m always a careful driver and always set my cruise control to 10 km/h below the speed limit. For example, 40 km/h in a 50 km/zone, 110 km/h in a 120 km/h zone.

My car was clocked doing 55 km/h in a 50 km/h zone a while back.

I was on an extended unpaid sabbatical with my wife and we were travelling around the mainland in her camper (she has her C licence 😎). We went from Lisbon to Helsinki and everywhere in between.

Upon return I saw that court proceedings were issued due to an ignored FCPN (the original FCPN arrived in my absence) and court proceedings happened in absentia.

The date of the alleged speeding offence was a date when I was still in Ireland.

I always knew that I never speed and that 55 in a 50 zone is out of character for me. I ended with a criminal conviction now and I have to apply for a visa to enter the US (presumably for the rest of my life).

Recently, the guilt got to my cousin who admitted borrowing my car without my permission. He told my dad (who lives at a different address and has a spare key for emergencies) that I had given him permission (which I didn’t). It turns out HE was the one caught speeding a month or so before the original FCPN arrived.

I must’ve been at work at the time of the offence as I work very irregular and haphazard shifts and I usually walk or cycle the 2 km to work.

Can I use this admission to quash my conviction? What if he denies saying this to me? Will I have to report my cousin for theft in order to quash the conviction? I’d be the rat of the family then.

Cheers for reading,

Simon.

Seth Brundle · 11-08-2022 11:38am

ignore - delete

Jim_Hodge · 11-08-2022 11:47am

Give a solicitor a few quid and see what he says. At least he's qualified and not making it up as he goes along on boards.

He may even believe the saga.

McGrath5 · 11-08-2022 11:47am

Sounds like one for the Special Criminal Court and don't forget Simon being a rat means you'll have to go into witness protection for the rest of your life.

mikeecho · 11-08-2022 1:18pm

A driving offence isn't considered a criminal matter.

ohnonotgmail · 11-08-2022 1:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119458549#Comment_119458549

you what?

Thoie · 11-08-2022 1:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119458549#Comment_119458549

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119458559#Comment_119458559

"Have you ever been arrested or convicted for a crime that resulted in serious damage to property, or serious harm to another person or government authority?"

The ESTA eligibility question is above. If the only thing you've ever done wrong is getting a speeding fine, you can answer "no" to that question. So in that sense it's not the kind of criminal matter they're interested in for ESTA/visa purposes.

ohnonotgmail · 11-08-2022 1:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119458625#Comment_119458625

a motoring offence decided in court is a criminal conviction. The ESTA does not decide what is or isn't a criminal conviction.

Thoie · 11-08-2022 1:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119458631#Comment_119458631

Yes, as I said: "it's not the kind of criminal matter they're interested in", which I suspect is what @mikeecho was alluding to.

ohnonotgmail · 11-08-2022 1:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119458650#Comment_119458650

perhaps best to let them explain what they mean.

Dial Hard · 11-08-2022 1:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119458625#Comment_119458625

A speeding fine isn't a conviction, though.

damn it · 11-08-2022 2:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119458708#Comment_119458708

Not per se.

Speeding is a criminal offence which attracts a conviction.

However, if you pay the FCPN and take the points on the chin you avoid the conviction. If it reaches court, you get convicted.

mikeecho · 11-08-2022 7:01pm

In ireland road traffic matters, are considered just that... A road traffic matter.

Getting a parking ticket, or being caught for speeding etc, does not make someone a criminal.

It's a conviction.. but not a criminal conviction. .. unless you kill someone

https://vetting.garda.ie/VettingProcedure/WhatIsDisclosed

Subsection (2) shall not apply to a conviction imposed on a person in respect of an offence—

under the Road Traffic Acts 1961 to 2014, other than section 53 (2) of the Road Traffic Act 1961 , (Dangerous driving causing death or serious harm)

ohnonotgmail · 11-08-2022 7:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119460363#Comment_119460363

A conviction in court for a RTA offence is criminal conviction. Garda vetting may not disclose them but they are still criminal convictions. If the op had paid the FCPN there would have been no conviction.

L1011 · 11-08-2022 7:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119460363#Comment_119460363

It's a criminal conviction. There isn't another type. That its filtered for Garda vetting; and many of them have unlimited allowances for being considered spent (other convictions can only have one of a type spent) doesn't stop them being criminal convictions.

MakersMark · 11-08-2022 7:51pm

Setting your cruise control to 40 in a 50 zone means you're really travelling at about 35..

That should be a fine right there!

mikeecho · 12-08-2022 1:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119460494#Comment_119460494

Tomato, Tow ma toe.

We can split hairs on this, but if I was charged with a crime, I would employ a good solicitor in criminal law,

If I was drunk driving, I would get a solicitor who specialises in road traffic matters.

I'm this country. The judiciary and the gardai , don't view traffic matters as criminal offences. (Unless causing death)

Well... That's what they taught me.

What's your legal background?

callaway92 · 12-08-2022 8:54am

Who the hell uses cruise control anywhere other than a Dual Carriageway or a Motorway?

SteM · 12-08-2022 8:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119462031#Comment_119462031

Certainly not in a 50 zone! That's that the speed limiter is for surely?

RoboRat · 12-08-2022 9:31am

OK, let me get this straight...

You were traveling Europe but you were back in the country when the offense took place - or you hadn't left? Therefore traveling in Europe really has nothing to do with this.

You were at work when the offence happened, and you usually cycle/ walk to work as it's only 2km away. I assume that your cousin then lives within a reasonably close radius to you (can walk/ cycle), and the offence happened locally, otherwise, this would have been simple to challenge - I was at work when it happened and it was 150km away (or however far away it was)... I say this as I had a fixed penalty notice issued for speeding in Dundalk but I was at work in Dublin at the time (plus I have never been to Dundalk). Turns out my reg was cloned and being used in the same make/ model car as mine. It was easy enough to prove as the colour was wrong and I had proof that I was at work.

If the above is true, then I'm a bit perplexed as to why would your cousin go to your dad's, get your keys, go to your house, and take your car to drive it locally.

Now getting to the key issue, does your dad live close to you? For this to be plausible, your dad and cousin must live close to your residence. I'm asking because how does the cousin get to your dad's house, then to your house, if you don't live close to each other?

You say you work irregular and haphazard shifts, so your cousin knew when you're out as it's hard to predict when you would be home if you live 2km away from work, and don't work regular times.

Regarding missing the FPN, well if you can prove you were out of the country for a sustained period, then that should be simple to resolve.

Finally, I have never heard of someone being issued a FPN for being 5km over the limit. Speedometers are often inaccurate and as far as I know, you have to be given leeway for speeding due to speed camera calibration, road gradients etc. I think this may be 10%, but I am open to correction.

damn it · 12-08-2022 9:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119462180#Comment_119462180

It’s all in the OP. Is English your first language? How did you find reading comprehensions in school? They must’ve been hard for you.

My cousin took my keys without my knowledge when I was at work.

Over a month later when I was travelling the FCPN arrived and thus went “ignored” for that time.

My dad and cousin and most of my family all live in a 2 km radius (my dad’s side of the family). How is this part relevant though?

damn it · 12-08-2022 9:55am

@RoboRat

You’re right about the over reading of the speedo, but you’re right for the wrong reasons.

Again, you have a piss poor understanding of how it works. A FCPN for 55 in 50 zone is entirely plausible.

55 on the FCPN would be 60ish on the speedometer, so we’ll deserved. The over reading of the speedo has no bearing on what’s on the Garda camera.

damn it · 12-08-2022 9:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119460563#Comment_119460563

Why? 50 is a target.

Fined for what specifically?

damn it · 12-08-2022 9:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119462031#Comment_119462031

The limit is 50 km/h on the approach to Drumcondra. Using adaptive cruise control allows you to watch your surroundings whilst stopping the car reaching dangerous speeds.