delete

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456194#Comment_119456194

Now, this could well be the case, and fair play to you if it is, but in my honest opinion, a lot of people who are in this same mindframe as yourself have been programmed to believe it. 

As opposed to the religious, and social conditioning that says having a family is fulfilling, and... you know the drill. We get the same thing with regards to employment "work hard, take pride in your work", yadda yadda yadda. You really think corporations haven't sought to increase numbers of families, due to the stability they bring, and increases the chances that employees will need that job, to cover all the consumed products that families go through? Single people are less likely to be tied down, more likely to refuse demands from employers, etc. For each situation, I can point to dozens of points of conditioning and influence sent from external sources.

Society and culture conditions/indoctrinates. We're all programmed by our parents, teachers, the media, etc. We're all affected by it to one degree or another. Some sticks, some doesn't. And some aligns with what we want... and a lot doesn't. Conformity is a hard one to shake.. and even when we do shake it, we're still responding to other sources of conditioning.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456194#Comment_119456194

Life is about what I want it to be about. If I have kids I will be unhappy, that wont be good for the world I live in or the people I meet, it will be much better if im happy with my life. If I did what society expected of me I would still be in that depressing corporate job very unhappy with life, instead I quit that job and set up my own business, the result being I am far happier now. In other words only I know what is right for me.

buried

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456264#Comment_119456264

Forget religion and family. For the last 50 years one thing has solely shaped the consciousness of the minds of the modern western world - Television and film. Two entities where the corporate world has infiltrated and literally programmed everyone into believing that nothing else matters only the individual. This has been their MO from the start, the godfather they hired to set it motion even stated such at the start of the last century. Sure, corporations might like for more people to create more individuals in order to prolong their message, but where do you see the evidence for this in our modern age? Families in the western world are now smaller, birth rates are dropping, nobody now even wants to date anybody it seems, all the while the message of the individual being the king has been thrown out and adhered to for the last 50 years, and continues to do so.

buried

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456270#Comment_119456270

And fair play to you pgj, I'm not judging you whatsoever, you know what's right for you and that's your prerogative.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456318#Comment_119456318

Do you have a problem with people just doing what they want in life?

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456225#Comment_119456225

Why would I do that if alternative methods of contraception exist, and I make it clear to a partner that children are not an option?

con___manx1

People now a days always think they can do better. I was guilty of it myself for a while. There is just to many options for single women and men with online dating.

buried

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456334#Comment_119456334

Nah, do what you like, make the choices you feel are right for you

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456351#Comment_119456351

Well your plan isn't exactly foolproof.

nullzero

Everyone (Male, Female and whatever other things people identify as these days) in today's world is looking for a perfect partner, and that's the problem nobody's perfect.

If you can find somebody who is sane, lives within the normal parameters of society and has basically the same values you'd expect a normal person to have and you both want similar things from life you're probably on to more of a winner than most people realize.

Internet dating seems to have really done a number on normal human romantic relationships. People have been having casual sex forever so it isn't just the convenience of Hook ups that's the problem, it's the possibility that the next person that appears on the screen will be perfect, at least that's my take looking in from the outside.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456261#Comment_119456261

I'm sure he'll meet someone some day!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456318#Comment_119456318

Sure, corporations might like for more people to create more individuals in order to prolong their message, but where do you see the evidence for this in our modern age?

Families are smaller due to the costs involved in having a family... but *drum roll* people are still having families, either in or out of wedlock. Depending on the culture involved, marriage is still extremely popular, as is having kids. Just as many companies place emphasis on hiring married people due to the stability, and that the research tends to show that married men outperform single males at middle/top management. Naturally, this is more of an American thing, but the conservative nature of many older/established private firms in European countries, also place a lot of emphasis on married people being hired.

In any case, you missed the point completely. The conditioning exists to cover just about every lifestyle choice, considering the wide range of influencers within society, through media, and the more traditional modes of social conditioning. So, you can't really elevate one choice of lifestyle over another, because we're all conditioned to one degree or another.

Also, why would allow you to disregard religion and family, both of which have had enormous influence over how society, our values, etc have developed... Religion is declining in importance now, but that's a relatively recent thing.. and family/parents remain one of the strongest sources of conditioning for any individual. You can't dismiss it so easily, just because you want to focus on corporations.

anewme

OP has disappeared?

Quelle surprise.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456392#Comment_119456392

Neither is yours. Having a vasectomy doesn't guarantee that you won't have children.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456482#Comment_119456482

And good luck to any childfree man or woman looking of childbearing age getting a doctor to sterilise them. All they'll get is a patronising "You'll change your mind".

I don't think it's the cult of the individual that has caused us to veer away from the traditional path in life since the 1960s - well maybe it's one factor, along with contraception, further education, rigid social mores being deconstructed/reduced social pressure, fewer taboos and stigmas, secularism, people just becoming more confident, women being able to work and not needing to marry as a way of being financially secure... more choice basically.

I'm certainly not someone who would celebrate the end of the nuclear family - but most people do marry and have children. It's still mostly the standard. Any threat that it's under is not, in my opinion, due to people like me, who choose not to have children (we're the exception rather than the rule)... but due to people who irresponsibly have children with different fathers/mothers and cannot provide them with a stable, secure home.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456145#Comment_119456145

That all sounds fair enough to be honest. I guess I am mainly aiming at the "undecideds", the ones who've never really thought it through, who are happy with their status quo lives, but don't have kids for more shallow narcissistic reasons like they enjoy their TV and video games. For people who consciously think about it and decide not to be parents, I have a great deal of respect for. They have given it thought and it's better for them not to be parents if they think they are not suited to it.

I guess deep down I am probably talking to a version of myself from 5-10 years ago. I was single, unable to meet anyone, and I convinced myself that I didn't want to get married and have kids, that I'd be happier being free to socialise and travel anywhere anytime. But I realise now it was possibly a coping mechanism, that deep down I did want to have kids.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456491#Comment_119456491

And if your wife/girlfriend gets pregnant by another man, or another method, you'll still be considered to be responsible for their care. So...

Say you don't want children, take the reasonable precautions, but in reality, it all comes down to luck and trust.

I don't want kids of my own, however if I ever had such a relationship/marriage, I'll leave the choice to my partner to make.

buried

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456456#Comment_119456456

All traditional modes of social conditioning have nearly been eroded, or there is a concise effort upon the part of establishment entities to completely erode them, religion is classed as nothing but voodoo, the notion of the family or the function of the family has also nearly been abolished. Western states, such as this one we reside in, have recently given children the right to override the roles of their parents, so what future does the traditional family actually have when that is the case? You say "Families are smaller due to the costs involved in having a family", but who controls the costs? Governments? The same governments who are lobbied and basically glued into the globalist corporate framework who are the ultimate ones who decide how the society is deemed to be run. So much so, that governments or regimes such as ours in Ireland won't tax these corporations fairly for the vast trillions of dollars they make while they continue to have a nefarious influence over not only our nation, but every other nation on the entire face of the planet? And you are trying to tell me that none of this matters or even has an effect? C'mon Klaz

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456482#Comment_119456482

It adds an extra layer. Failure rate is something like 1 in 1000 so it will beat any other method

If I were in his position, I'd trust the vasectomy rather than what he is otherwise implying which is that he would tell the woman not to get pregnant

Would I get one myself? No. But I'm not the one declaring I never ever want kids

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456392#Comment_119456392

No plan ever is. It’s the best I am willing to do.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456496#Comment_119456496

No, this is what you said and doubled down on in subsequent posts:

You need to have kids. It's our entire reason for being. Your legacy will be your kids.

No mention of those who are undecided until this post, in fact, you've contradicted those who have decided that parenthood isn't for them.

It's great that having children has made you happy and given you purpose. It's great that you see them as your legacy, but not everyone shares your opinion. You'll note that no one has told you you shouldn't have had children or that you'll realise one day that you're wrong.

jay432

I disappeard because this discussion is a heap of bullshit. I wanted to hear from women in a similar situation and all I've seen are people arguing over having kids. I dont care about their views on it and i tried to delete this thing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456596#Comment_119456596

All traditional modes of social conditioning have nearly been eroded, or there is a concise effort upon the part of establishment entities to completely erode them, religion is classed as nothing but voodoo, the notion of the family or the function of the family has also nearly been abolished

That's a rather blinkered view. Formal religion in Ireland is declining, but it's still very much present for a lot of families. Which impacts on the development of children, both from a familial aspect, and the influence they gain beyond the home. As much as you'd like to make religion redundent, it's not. There are still hundreds of millions of people who follow a religion, one way or another. Some religions are still growing in population, ie. Islam. Then, there's Buddhism, Daoism, etc which are more connected with spiritualism, but are set to take over for many people who would previously have been catholic.

As for the family being abolished.. that's complete horseshit. The greatest amount of influence for the personal development happens during childhood, because many of our core values and beliefs come from that period. And... it is our parents who we spend most of that time with, and have the greatest trust in, therefore, ideas and concepts are most likely to be accepted. As we age we become more careful/cynical of where information or ideas come from, which lessens the impact from external sources, but for many people, their parents remain sources for guidance. That's particularly true when it comes to siblings who grow up close to each other, and the exchange of concepts/ideas is compounded by those bonds.

You've jumped too far into what's possible, in how society might develop, rather than what currently is.

And you are trying to tell me that none of this matters or even has an effect? C'mon Klaz

Now you're projecting arguments on to me that I didn't make, posing new questions, and answering them yourself.

C'mon buried.

Don't put words or concepts in my mouth, and then, argue against them yourself. I'm more than capable of explaining my own position without your "help".. especially if you decide to respond/deal with what I've written, rather than what you've just done above.

@jay432

@jay432 if you're serious, post in https://www.boards.ie/categories/personal-issues

You'll get more mature responses there.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456604#Comment_119456604

Ahh well.. in his position, I'd just not have sex, or at least, sex with anyone that I'm going to keep in contact with (so have sex in another city or country with strangers). Then I could be guaranteed that I'd be fine.

However, any sexual intercourse carries a risk. There are no guarantees. I agree that your suggestion is far safer than what he said, but.. yeah.

jay432

@[Deleted User] how do i delete a discussion?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456707#Comment_119456707

You don't. Only the mods can.

Just ignore the thread, and move to PI.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456707#Comment_119456707

The moderators usually do that. I suspect it'll be done whenever a mod is online.

anewme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456684#Comment_119456684

If the question was genuine, After Hours was not the best place for it.

Personal issues more balanced.

I can answer as a woman in your situation, but it would be shouted down, as others know better, obviously.