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Modern bikes...

  • 04-08-2022 9:51am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 991 ✭✭✭ Large bottle small glass


    Was out lately for a couple of group spins, which were very enjoyable with the best of company, ride etiquette, lovely routes,coffee etc.

    Between the two spins there was a mix of riders, 11 in total with two recent RAS finishers and a wide mix of abilities after that.

    What struck me though was the bikes

    *except me everyone was on discs

    *5 of the bikes had di2

    *nearly all had internally routed gear and brake cable/hoses

    *integrated cockpits

    *nearly all tubeless (some with no tubes!!!)

    Now the initial cost of these bikes is one thing but its all the other issues which makes maintenance for the home mechanic a ball ache and expensive along with future obsolescence of proprietary parts which strikes me as nuts.

    I wouldn't know where to start doing the headset on a S-Works Sl7, or like to pay for a shorter/longer stem after a bike fit for the same bike or the equivalent Trek/Cervelo.

    I'm the outlier here could someone tell me why most of the sportive/racing crew have embraced new tech which isn't adding extra enjoyment (as far as I can see) but lots of cost and the need for a professional mechanic for what used to be basic repairs. I say that as someone with limited mechanical skills who can do all my own maintenance of my 2013 rim braked bike.

    The whole thing looks anti consumer to me, but the consumers are diving headfirst into it; or maybe they are all right and I'm just a Luddite😂



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭ MangleBadger


    I really like the clean look of hidden cables. Which my new Orbea Orca has. Although I have not had to try do any adjustments to it yet, so not sure how much of a hassle it will be. Its not 1 piece, just the cables routed under the stem and into the frame from there.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,366 Mod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder


    if you want to buy a high end bike these days, what options are there which don't include most of the features above?



  • Registered Users Posts: 710 ✭✭✭ fatbhoy


    Regarding brake hoses routed through the headset tube, to my knowledge, to replace the headset bearings you need to do a brake bleed also, which is a right pain for something that used to be simple.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,714 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Weepsie


    Internal cabling isn't new. Di2 is for many simpler to work with than mechanical groupsets (so long as it's set up well in the first place)

    We've done the disc debate already.


    People like the clean integrated look.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,935 ✭✭✭✭ Squidgy Black


    I mean how often would you have to replace the headset on a bike, maybe once every 5 years at best with sealed bearings.

    And if you’re splashing out that kind of money on an sl7 and you’re not getting a bike fit before you buy it to make sure sizing is correct, then fools and their money etc.

    The whole new bikes are too complicated is overblown, and the issues people think of generally never really happen.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,323 ✭✭✭ Macy0161


    My road bike isn't integrated cockpit or disc brake, but has internally routed cables for it's mechanical groupset... but fwiw I'd add a pro of disc brakes of no issues with rim wear/ carbon braking surface in the wet. Tubeless isn't that new either, and the hassle is more in the fitting (and a mess if you have to fit a tube.

    In my experience, people showing for spins without spares isn't confined to new bikes, and isn't new!



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,497 ✭✭✭ secman


    I'm a complete luddite, newest bikes are a pair of 2017 Trek emonda SL6 rim brakes, ultegra mechanical. Winter bikes are same spec but a bit older. I am conscious when on a club group spin if the bikes immediately in front of me are disc brakes especially in the wet. Keep putting off change...until retirement ...possibly 😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭ DaveyDave


    The more expensive the bike, the more expensive the servicing and components. You can get a nice bike without having a fully integrated cockpit. At least from what I see with Canyon, you'll have entry carbon with 105, then you can go up to carbon with Ultegra Di2, then you go fancy carbon with a fully integrated cockpit, better frame, Dura Ace Di2 etc.

    Plenty of options out there for bikes, really depends on what you want.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,548 ✭✭✭ Eamonnator


    I retired 18 years ago. Finally got my Ti road bike at the beginning of this year. Should have done it years ago, most comfortable bike, I've ever owned.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,719 ✭✭✭ brownian


    Depends how much you want to tweak your bike after you buy it, add non-proprietary parts, etc. And how leery you are of things you can't fix yourself. I went from eTap back to mechanical, as the battery never runs out on gear cables. I wanted to try a shockstop stem, so am glad not to have an integrated cockpit (which I think are butt-ugly anyway). Internal cables - yes, the first time you replace one, they're a PITA, but you learn a few simple tricks and they're no biggie. Tried tubeless, but when get a puncture that the system doesn't fix, it can be a pain to get the tyres on and off, in the rain, covered in sealant...so went back to tubes, no regrets. (Touch wood) I hardly ever get punctures anyway. I'd probably prefer discs, but I've had rim brakes for ages, and they are easy to adjust or fix.

    To actually respond, rather than ramble - it's hard to get a 'good' bike these days without that stuff. If you want to buy a 10k bike (and surprisingly many do), and you believe all the 'best frame ever' and 'will change your life and save your marriage' stuff, then you may struggle to get mechanical gears, rim brakes, or (especially) external cables.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭ DaveyDave


    I thought wireless groupset batteries lasted a long time? I was under the impression it was something you'd only do every few months.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,497 ✭✭✭ secman


    Have heard of battery glitches , club member's battery dropped power on tour of Kilkenny last Saturday, was stuck on 52/14 on a very hilly course, ended up doing the 110km instead of the 160km. It was back working fine on Mondays spin .



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,656 ✭✭✭✭ Wishbone Ash


    OP - you remind me of those drivers around 20/25 years ago or so when power assisted steering, electric windows etc. were becoming standard in normal cars.

    "What do people want with electric windows? How hard is it to wind up/down a window?" which usually translated as "I can't afford it so no one else should show me up by having it either".

    I don't know if you drive, but if you do, I'm pretty sure your vehicle has electric windows, power assisted steering, automatic choke, ABS, AC etc. You probably have an automatic washing machine at home, maybe even a dishwasher. Sure the cost of servicing those must be shocking compared to the old basin of water or the old washboard.

    ....and as for those new fangled cellular telephones, what was wrong with the old pay phone with the A and B buttons?

    Life moves on - get over it.

    (But I do agree with you regarding tubeless - pain in the arse on a group spin spending 45 freezing minutes on the side of the road in winter while the tubeless one tries to remove the tyre and fit a tube. A solution for a problem which doesn't exist.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,656 ✭✭✭✭ Wishbone Ash


    BTW - I should have added that of my 5 bikes, one is disc, one has internal cabling, none are tubeless and none have integral cockpit or whatever it's called but I'm very happy to see others with them as I know it will eventually trickle down to me! 😀



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,323 ✭✭✭ Macy0161


    Even the pro's have issues sometimes, and then isn't there a crash mode that can be triggered by non-crashes occasionally? Personally, n+1 (if it's a carbon bike) will be at least ultegra, so I've little doubt it'll be electronic group set and disc.

    I'm a bit disappointed that I wont get a Ti bike until I retire though!



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,953 ✭✭✭ 07Lapierre


    I work in the motor trade. i The last "Decent" cars built were in 2000/2010 or older. The latest cars equipped with Advance braking, adaptive cruise control, electronic handbrakes (what's wrong with a good'ol rachet lever?) self drive capability etc. are going too far with "Driver aids". they've taken all the fun out of driving a car.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,188 ✭✭✭✭ Enfilade


    Our current car is basic by today's standards even for a 2016 but it's actually the first I've had with air con. No going back now 😅

    I do see the likes of the Tesla's while I'm passing on the bike in traffic and they effectively have a laptop on the dashboard, makes me wonder about how big a distraction that could be?

    🚴‍♂️



  • Registered Users Posts: 886 ✭✭✭ Luxman


    I gradually upgraded bikes, went from Sora to 105 to Di2 over 8 years or so, I wouldn't be without Di2 to be honest, doesn't make me faster at all but takes the faff out of indexing them, although battery charging is another task to replace it. As poster above says I think the integrated cockpit is pig ugly and wouldn't go near one. My good bike does have disc brakes which I think are brill, I haven't had to bleed them yet but being slightly nerdy I look forward to the task at some point. As WA alludes to, Life goes on, progress and all that.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,178 ✭✭✭ Mercian Pro


    Like WA, I've been stuck at the side of the road on a number of occasions as tyre levers are bent and broken trying to get a tyre back on over a tube on a tubeless set up. I've also witnessed a mechanic on a Hospice Cycle having to remove a bottom bracket in order to replace a gear cable. Pushing a friend on the level bits up near the Sally Gap when his Di2 failed in the lowest gear also comes to mind.

    On a recent trip in Slovenia, I met an 81 year old kindred spirit who was delighted that I was also on a bike with tubes, rim brakes, exposed cables and mechanical gears. Only one of us was riding Ti though but he was interested for his next bike.



  • Registered Users Posts: 286 ✭✭ Morris Garren


    I find myself in a similar scenario to OP- almost every other guy in my club who I would ride with has disc/integrated headset/internal etc and some have Di2. I agree however that we need to move with tech progress rather than resist for the sake of nostalgia. My race bike is a 2016 Argon18 frame, the Nitrogen 'sprinters' bike with tubeless, but the external flapping cables are the only draw back. Aesthetically this was a very fine bike [still is] 6 years ago but it seems like it is from another era altogether given the speed of change. I'm not yet entirely sold on tubeless nor do I have a team car to throw me another bike if the disc fails; therefore I've decided to just stick with the current steed and with a cost-of-living crisis, n+1 is a long way off.

    Disc will stay; tubeless maybe not; 12 speed is really pushing the edge of necessity; 1x is naff and AquaBlue proved that; if internal cables become near enough standard, that would be a welcome development.

    Change is the only constant



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,635 ✭✭✭ triggermortis


    my good bike has DI2, which is brilliant and never let me down. All the rest is beyond me so far. Wouldn’t mind a winter bike with discs but won’t be rushing out to upgrade the good bike as rim brakes with Ultegra brakes and Swiss stop pads are good enough for me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 597 ✭✭✭ wheelo01


    I don't know what an integrated headset(or a tracker mortgage) is!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,656 ✭✭✭✭ Wishbone Ash


    They call it a 'cockpit' now.


    .....and you've missed the boat with the tracker mortgages!



  • Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭ this.lad


    Which is a shame because you nearly need a mortgage to get a new bike these days!

    I wonder has the shortage if bikes pushed buyers into the next level a bit sooner than they had planned for?

    I had an alu defy with claris and changed to a TCR Advanced pro with ultegra carbon etc.

    I was looking to go carbon and was thinking 105 but could get nothing, washoung to just leave it so but came across a good deal in the above. I'm actually hardly off it these days so the money was well spent.

    The deep section rims weren't a clincher, pardon the pun, for me. I'm not sure if people land in off the road a d insist on an integrated cockpit or whatever, it's just what's there and available.

    I think we all know what its like to get clearance from the other half to get a new bike, you don't hang around, you buy before the mind changes!! 🤣🤣



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭ CramCycle


    I spent my mid life crisis on a Rose X lite 6, rim brakes, no proprietary stuff. There are riders in my club league who have 7k bikes for the TT nights, and while I always get a pang of jealousy, 7k to save 60seconds in a league I'll be lucky to place top 50 seems extortionate. My bike is UCI legal by the thinnest of margins, the exposed cables at the handlebars might cost me a watt but I don't think that watt is why I'm placing 20th in most races.

    I will upgrade to a fancier groupset in a few years but for now, this is good.

    This said I don't begrudge anyone with all the fancy stuff, it drives trickle down tech, and leads to a nice 2nd hand market for cheapskates like me



  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭ monkeyslayer


    Earlier this year I decided to upgrade to a new 7k bike if only because I was spending a fortune on old tech keeping the old one (with over 40 thousand kms on it) in the game. I wanted to upgrade the ultegra groupset (which I'd taken off an even older frame) with Di2 and there was no neat way to facilitate it on the frame and I think the sram equivalent was either too expensive, too hard to find or was obselete. Wheels were old zipp rims on rim breaks which inevitably wouldn't last a more than a couple more years etc. I had been saving for a new bike but after an expensive crash that had me spending 100s on a rear mech, wheel truing, new lever etc and then a headset I but the bullet. Both bikes are great I love having both of them, both really decent in their own right. What I wasn't expecting was how much id love the disc brakes, gears I don't really see the big deal tbh, and even prefer the ultegra 6700 mech hoods. I do miss how light my old bike is in comparison and the stock carbon wheels that came with the new bike just don't rate against my old zipps but at least I know when I eventually upgrade them they'll last a lot longer. I probably won't be spending any more money on the older one except for general keeping it on the road type stuff. I'm mostly just dreading the price of keeping the new one on the road when things like 12 speed cassetes, bbs, bearings etc start to need replacing as they seem quite expensive, at the moment anyway.

    Post edited by monkeyslayer on


  • Registered Users Posts: 552 ✭✭✭ nicksnikita


    Had my eye out for something similar for a long time now. Really fancy one



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,366 Mod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder


    i have just shy of four year old ultegra 6800 on my (dry weather) bike and since the original setup, i've literally spent less than a minute on adjusting the gears. i'd have spent more time getting the batteries charged on Di2 (which in four years, probably is not a lot of time wasted either, i guess).

    but in terms of what moving to Di2 might have meant for me - significant extra cost, a little bit of extra time (not worth talking about) and extra weight (which i'm not that concerned about either, really)

    i guess in the words of sinead o'connor, i do not want what i have not got.



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