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solar in rest of europe

  • 03-08-2022 9:34am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,730 ✭✭✭


    Was In Portugal looking for solar panels and didn't see much. Is electricity cheaper, or is it not incentivized?

    I took a few snaps of a roof that looked like it might be solar tech, but tiny amounts of panels never big arrays. Is it older tech? Is the cylinder for hot water? Air con everywhere so thought I would see more panels.




Comments

  • Subscribers Posts: 40,886 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Portugal do very well in the race for net zero.

    Their main electricity company EDP are already at 78% renewal sources and are expanding all the time. There vast majority of which is solar.

    Here's an interesting project.


    so Portugal doesn't have to rely on individual solar input for renewables as it's grid system is well on the way already



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,730 ✭✭✭yankinlk


    I actually took some pictures as we flew in.... was wondering if this was a solar grid.... but must be too spaced out

    Is the price of electricity too cheap to other with panels then?



  • Subscribers Posts: 40,886 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    That looks like a harbour. Probably peniche. Did you fly into Lisbon?

    Spain and Portugal have Europe's lowest production costs for electricity. Around €151 per GwH currently I think. France is over €500 and Germany around €440.

    We're about €225



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,382 ✭✭✭dathi


    yes these are solar water heaters makes sense in tourist areas to heat as much water as you can from solar as there is high demand for hot water



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭DC999


    The carpark in one supermarket we went to in Portugal had 2 rows of cars covered fully with PV panels. So a huge PV carport. I was veryyyyy jealous of their output :) The supermarket would gobble all the output up with all the cooling they need for the store.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,730 ✭✭✭yankinlk


    We flew into Faro but that was very early in the flight.

    So that makes sense about the costs. I ave a friend at work in Germany that has a 30Kw roof install. No wonder



  • Registered Users Posts: 32 askpt


    The reason why most of the people in Portugal don’t have solar is due to price of equipment and installation. It’s a massive initial investment that most of the families cannot afford.



  • Registered Users Posts: 64,666 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    It's all fiscal policy. Germany is far worse for solar output than Ireland, even the very south of Germany. But as a private home owner you can choose to either have net metering (produce tonnes of PV in summer and then offset that against your use in winter) or you can dedicate your entire output towards the grid, getting paid something like 14c / kWh, which makes it a very high yielding, low risk, low cost investment



  • Registered Users Posts: 64,666 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    You can install a grid tie PV system of 1 panel (basically covering the base load of your house) and a micro inverter for about €200.



  • Registered Users Posts: 64,666 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    The cylinder above the collector is very common in Mediterranean countries. Because the cylinder is higher than the collector, the water moves through convection. So it's a very cheap and simple setup and you don't need a pump.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭DC999


    Ah, wondered why their thermals looking that way. That's a good design



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,610 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Why hot countries do not have a pre-heating hot water chamber before going into heated cylinder is beyond me. Life Uncontained couple on YouTube did one with huge temp gains for free. I've often thought I could get my hands on a rake of old rads and a cheap temp controlled pump and stick them on the shed to pre-heat the hot water supply, not an option anymore though now 100% panels occupy that real estate...



  • Registered Users Posts: 32 askpt


    Which a lot of people won’t see a top priority investment because they have other expenses that needs to be prioritised. Unfortunately that’s the Portuguese reality.



  • Registered Users Posts: 800 ✭✭✭3d4life


    OP, Leroy Merlin ( kind of a hybrid of Woodies & Chadwicks ) have a fair offering in the category

    https://www.leroymerlin.es/electricidad/energias-renovables/energia-solar-termica

    https://www.leroymerlin.es/ideas-para-casa/calienta-agua-con-el-sol-y-ahorra

    ( just because you didnt see it doesnt mean its not there :) )



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭DC999


    Dumb Q, how come we never see that type of thermal setup here with the tank on the top? Is it down to temperature that we would need more thermals? As in the single or double unit wouldn't get enough water heated?

    And it's not insulated by looks of it so tank would lose heat when temp drops.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    I was thinking the same thing DC999. It looks like a simple/good idea, and it would also increase the "head pressure" on the gravity fed systems by 7-8 feet from the attic to the roof, which is about 2-3ft PSI of pressure. Useful for many of us as Ireland generally doens't have mains pressured systems.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭paulbok


    Could such a setup work seperately to an existing larger array & inverter?

    E.g. have a 400w panel and micro inverter feed into a small consumer unit in a garden shed. Let that cover the house base load and leave the more advanced hybrid array to manage battery and exporting?



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,290 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    You can even buy the likes of this which comes with a micro inverter and plugs into a schuko outlet and install it yourself, no certs required

    Solaranlagen für Balkon, Garten & Terrasse – PluginEnergy



  • Registered Users Posts: 64,666 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    That's not entirely true, @ELM327 any inverter must still have Irish certification technically speaking ;-)


    But yeah you could just wire a 3 pin plug to a €70 micro inverter, connect a €130 PV panel and you will have a system that in full sun will provide the full base load of your house. My very first inverter was a plug in one, a Mastervolt Soladin 600. Bought on eBay for £80, sold for a lot more than that a year later when I upgraded 😂 hooked it up with 3 end of line poly 250W panels on my shed, west facing



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭paulbok


    Wouldn't it also want that isolater that prevents feeding into the grid if the grid is down?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    Most of the Micro-inverters are DC powered (from the panels) and what happens is that when they detect that the incoming AC is zero volts, they disable themselves. Effectively anti-islanding built in.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,836 Mod ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    I drove through the back arse of nowhere in Turkey from a site in nowheresville to Istanbul years ag, and noticed that almost every house had a radiator on the roof, painted black.... some with the tanks above them.... so you can see how easily & cheaply one could obtain warm water for free, without fancy tube systems!! If you've a bit of sun..



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,167 ✭✭✭irishchris


    Yep these simple systems as well as ability to go of grid makes me jealous of countries with year round sun.

    Problem with these tanks or radiators on your roof in Ireland would be in winter where the pipes and radiator would freeze and burst leaking down your roof into your house.



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