Damaged my undercarriage!

Aglomerado

No, not a euphemism!

I was going to an unfamiliar place a couple of days ago and had to pull in on a narrow rural road to check Google maps. I saw a nice wide green bit in front of a bungalow so pulled in there to check phone safely.

As I moved off I heard a crunch under my car on the front passenger side. A big pointy stone hidden in long grass was the culprit. I was worried I'd damaged my wheel (what normally happens) but all's ok there.

Forgot about it until today. I was walking to the car and noticed something hanging down, thought it was a piece of fabric. Turns out it's a nasty jagged gash in the plastic undercarriage of the car.

Car running fine (2018 fiesta) but is this gash likely to lead to problems further down the line (I imagine the plastic bit protects some important parts) ? Im a bit clueless about cars so any advice welcomed also is it an expensive fix that any mechanic should be able to handle or a job for main dealer's guys?

Thanks 👍

Miscreant

You need to get the car put on a ramp to check the damage first. It could be anything and I doubt there will be anyone here who can give you an idea of cost without seeing it. Could be anything from €0 to thousands.

If there are no fluids leaking onto your driveway, it may just be a plastic cover that took the hit. Definitely get it to a mechanic anyway and get the car off the ground for a check.

Aglomerado

Thanks will do. No leakage on driveway or anything running differently but coming into winter sh*t and muck will get into that hole so I'll do that this week.

kirving

I understand that people want to protect their driveway / grass verge, but placing stones that are not easily visible and intended to damage cars who do pull in, is incredibly cynical. I've zero issue with a nice fence or bollards to keep cars off the grass, but not difficult to see stones.

Gant21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119423059#Comment_119423059

It’s their property they can put what they like on it. You can’t dictate what someone can do on their private property.

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119423080#Comment_119423080

The law says otherwise.

https://m.independent.ie/business/farming/landowners-rights-and-obligations-34266229.html

bladespin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119423403#Comment_119423403

That's one interpretation, however a stone or rock in the grass wouldn't necessarily result in a 'foreseeable' injury and it would be extremely difficult to prove intent as well, so unless it's obviously a trap with injurious intent then yeah, they can.

Gant21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119423403#Comment_119423403

What is that link about? Unless been given up by the council because of planning any owner that is along the main road owns it right to the edge of the tar.

This is a fact.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119423080#Comment_119423080

i didn't see him 'dictating' what could or couldn't be done; he just said it was cynical. and i'd agree. definitely underhand.

bladespin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119423753#Comment_119423753

If they're protecting a lawn etc, they will usually paint the stones etc to create a visible deterrent, if they're just scattered about then it's more than likely just scatter that has accumulated/been left after work.

Gant21

People need to look up the definition of ‘Private Property’

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119423692#Comment_119423692

Generally they own to the middle of the road but only have the exclusive rights to their property boundries.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119423788#Comment_119423788

Doesn't matter if they put them there intentionally or accidentally, if a road users has an RTC at the location they will be responsible for the damage. You have to keep your property safe for others so obstructions on the roadside are not allowed.

magicbastarder

Generally they own to the middle of the road but only have the exclusive rights to their property boundries.

AFAIK they don't; the misconception has arisen due to the way plots are drawn on land registry maps.

https://www.fieldfisher.com/en-ie/locations/ireland/ireland-blog/land_registry_maps_and_boundary_questions

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119423692#Comment_119423692

Reckless disregard

In determining whether a land owner showed reckless disregard to the 'recreational user' or 'trespasser', the court will consider whether the landowner knew or believed that the person was or was likely to be on the land and near the danger and whether it was reasonable to expect the landowner to protect the person from danger.

The court will also look at whether the land was of a nature that it was likely that people would use the property for recreational use. For example, if the property was traditionally open for public use.

In bold above. Cars are likely to drive on the grass verge - and is exactly the reason that the rocks were put there in the first place.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119423862#Comment_119423862

It might be Private, but it's Publicly Accessible. If I was to place very visible razor wire along my rear garden wall, that would be OK. If ivy was then to grow over it, making it invisible, and a child tried to climb over the wall and was injured, I would be responsible, as it's very obviously an expected outcome. Likewise with the grass. If a rock was painted white, and left on cut grass, that's one thing. But if the grass is let to get out of hand, it's obvious that the rock would be hidden.

@AckwelFoley@Aglomerado Do you have a picture of the site, or even one from Google Maps. If it was intentionally, placed, I'd be attempting to claim off the homeowners insurance.

bladespin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119423883#Comment_119423883

If a road user crashes into private property then they would be responsible, that's pretty basic stuff, RTC wise, a collision with a stationary object etc.

If a car is damaged by a stone (not an RTC) while a driver was driving on someone's lawn then I'd suggest you bring it to court before deciding who's responsible for any damage: if I choose to leave a pile of rubble on my drive way and you drive into it, I'm sure you could try but doubt the case would go very far, even less so if you can't prove it was put there (roadside and not actually on the property) deliberately by the proprietor and not some stone shed from a load etc.

Gant21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119424527#Comment_119424527

That post is incorrect. Forget about your garden now for a while and refocus on the stone in private property on someone’s land.

Miscreant

Or, the OP could concentrate on getting their car checked out. Might be the more pressing issue here than figuring out the existence of some rock!

Aglomerado

Funnily enough I know the guy next door to this house and he is a solicitor! I'll ask him when I see him, maybe this weekend.

Haven't moved car since (I work from home) but I'll call to local mechanic in a few days. I don't think it's going to be an expensive fix in any case. Thanks 👍

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119424870#Comment_119424870

You can't go and effectively set traps for people who might stray onto your land. A row of neatly placed rocks would count as such IMO, and I doubt your insurance company would waste their time agruing the point.

Say it rolled onto the road and was hit by a cyclist, that could end very badly, and is easily foreseeable.

If it's publicly accessible, you may be liable.

Aglomerado

Screenshot_20220803-232929~2.png

Found the offending stones on Streetview. They're visible here as the grass had been cut, however last week the grass was quite high. I definitely wouldnt have pulled in here if they were as visible as they are in this photo.

Gant21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119426072#Comment_119426072

Wrong again. You need to get legal advice.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119426072#Comment_119426072

If a stone accidentally rolls from one location to another, and a cyclist hits it, the person who placed the stone in the original spot is liable???

Wut??

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119426108#Comment_119426108

Why would I need legal advice? I don't disregard the public's safety around my property.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119426165#Comment_119426165

It's just an example, of a risk which the homeowner could be reasonably expected to predict when they placed stones on the verge.

They are placed there for one reason only - to cause severe damage to a car which may drive on the grass.

Gant21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119426303#Comment_119426303

Stop trespassing on private property. Stay on the tar road.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119426474#Comment_119426474

You are adding nothing to this thread. Stop posting worthless one-liners.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119426303#Comment_119426303

They are there to prevent people from driving onto the grass in the first place.

bladespin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119426104#Comment_119426104

I think this post pretty much sums it up, accepted they're clearly visible in the picture but the grass was higher, suggesting you drove there without knowing it was safe to do so, there's at least a shared responsibility there, there're also nowhere near the road's edge.

Gant21

My neighbour had a court case a few years ago, he left a shear grab on his property like where the stones are.

A car pulled in to let another car passed and caught the shear grab and did some panel damage.

Long story short It went to court and was thrown out immediately. A solicitor let the car owner up the garden path.

I firmly believe and can copper fasten that the laws we have prevailed and did justice.

magicbastarder

If you're the sort of person who would happily let grass grow around stones like that, placed to stop people driving on the grass, you are not trying to prevent people from driving on the grass, you're trying to punish people for doing it.

CreadanLady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119423570#Comment_119423570

The range of "reasonably foreseeable" is extremely broad. It would include for basically everything bar the most freak, chance occurance that no-one could reasonably foresee.

Putting a stone into the verge, while not with the intention of causing injury, could lead to an unintended accident such as a pedestrian tripping over it, a cyclist being thrown off, or a car being damaged. You would be liable for damages in those cases because it could have been reasonably foreseen that s large stone on a road side could potentially cause such an event.

On the other hand, if you had a bollard there, and a car hit the bollard, and the bollard flew and hit an apple tree, dislodging an apple, and the apple then fell in front of a cyclist who swerved to avoid it, and in doing so struck a parked car and knocked off the wing mirror - well you would not be liable for wing mirror damage because that chain of events was so freak and improbably that it could not have been reasonably foreseen.

Granted, my latter example is an exaggeration of sorts, bit the above just serves as an example of the difference between reasonly foreseeabel and not

Aglomerado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119431662#Comment_119431662

I think this is something I'll have to chalk down to experience and suck up the small repair cost. Lesson learned and it could have been a lot worse.

bladespin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119432101#Comment_119432101

They're not on the verge, that could cause a 'foreseeable' event, like you describe, leaving stones etc on your lawn would not.

There's no difference between a stone and a bollard, it's all about the 'where'

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119432398#Comment_119432398

What do the rules of the road say about pulling off the road and onto someone's garden?

bladespin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119432593#Comment_119432593

That was my point.

Gant21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119432593#Comment_119432593

Is there any documentation on it? In terms of an emergency use one would see it as acceptable action.

bladespin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119432711#Comment_119432711

Yes, lots, to avoid or reduce the seriousness of a potential accident, the driver is responsible for any damage; car vs car or car vs hedge, the car that takes evasive action and picks the hedge is right to do so but still responsible for any damage (including the hedge).

magicbastarder

seems simple to me; if you don't want people pulling up onto the grass verge outside your house, a few small wooden fences posts with rope strung between them should do, or something similar. maybe even attach a small reflector to each. you'll achieve more than what was shown in the screenshot earlier.

bladespin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119433506#Comment_119433506

A couple of smallish cones would also do it but that's using the head etc etc.

I've also seen proper boulders used as well, to dissuade certain cultures from camping shall we say.

blade1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119426061#Comment_119426061

If I was a gambling man I'd bet it's just the plastic undertray that's damaged but a quick check will determine otherwise.

Pick up a used one from a breakers or drill a few holes either side of the crack and use cable ties to hold it together.

Like stitches.

I'd be surprised if it's anything worse.