The size of car parking spaces?

The Continental Op

Are there any regulations that apply to how big or small car parking spaces need to be for planning permission to be granted?

The reason I'm asking is that I can park around my local town and shops like Lidl and Aldi have spaces that are 2.3 - 2.4 meters between the lines and parking is easy. Then there are the councils car parks which you have to pay for and the distance between the lines (middle of line to middle of line) is less than 2 meters. 2 meters is really really tight. I should dig it out, I have a picture somewhere on my phone of a large car parked perfectly between the lines with millimeters to spare, with wheel arches added it filled the space.

What I am thinking is that planners would insist on 2.3 - 2.4 meters for planning permission yet because they are under pressure to provide more parking spaces (having removed a lot of on street parking) made their own spaces much smaller.

10-10-20

The regulation of maximising profit per M^2, I would guess.

I think that the only regulation in that regard is around the ratio of disabled spots overall. Sure look at any car-park with structural pillars within - some of those spots where the pillar stands must be less than 2m from pillar to the middle of the line.

zell12

The normal minimum parking bay size for right angle parking is 2.4m x 4.8m. There are recommendations for public spaces and Dublin City Council say minimum width of less than 2.4 m.

Gumbo

Normally about 2.4x4.8 in residential housing.

Ive seen 2.5x5 for commercial sites.

i very much doubt you’ve been in parking spaces that are 2m wide. A modern car would barely fit in!

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119406102#Comment_119406102

I keep a tape measure in the car for measuring timber. I've got it out a couple of times when I've been p!ssed at how close the cars are parked in a certain car park. Each time the measurement from the middle of each line was just less than 2m, 1.95m iirc but I'll check again next week.

Just found the picture I was on about so I'll get it off the camera, cover up the number and post it in a minute.

12 element

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058256647/the-size-of-car-parking-spaces

What are you driving?

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119406162#Comment_119406162

Only a focus it just about fits but a decent car won't.

The Continental Op

Sometimes I'm glad I don't own a merc, but there is only barely room for something like a focus provided very one has parked squarely within the line and you know the never happens

I'm sure some expert will be able to say how wide that merc is so we can be sure about the distance between the lines.

Lumen

I'm no Merc expert but if that's a mid 2000s CLS the width without mirrors is 1872mm.

I used to rent a garage that was so narrow I needed to climb out the window of the old BMW estate I parked there, and I was a skinny fecker then.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119406197#Comment_119406197

Ok I take back my previous comment. They look small.

They also look to be on private land so the landowner is squeezing every last inch for spots. Look to be under the regulation size.

Is it paid parking?

What Merc is it?

If you left the Reg I could check but an S Class is 2109mm wide.

HeidiHeidi

The Merrion Centre carpark would be a prime example of this - the spaces are ridiculously tight there, with pillars intruding into every third space. I only drive a Mini and I hate it!

Lumen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119407010#Comment_119407010

an S Class is 2109mm wide

That's with mirrors. It's 1954mm without.

I think that style of tail lights (single cluster attached to rear wing) was ditched in the late 2000s.

After that they adopted a split light cluster and then more recently a light bar.

I reckon that space is 2m wide with the Focus being about 180mm narrower than the Merc.

magicbastarder

2m would be a fairly typical width for an average size car these days (with mirrors)

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119407010#Comment_119407010

What is annoying is that its a Council car park. Car check tells me its a Mercedes-benz S SERIES S 350L Bluetec

magicbastarder

we should not be building car parks to fit S class mercs, to be fair.

busunderer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119407704#Comment_119407704

okay Joseph

Dr Turk Turkelton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119407704#Comment_119407704

Agree entirely. Should be at least big enough to fit my Range Rover.

unkel

I had a loaner car Tesla Model X for a few weeks recently. I kid you not, sometimes the car was parked on both white lines beside it. It seems car parking space sizes in Ireland are still based on the tiny cars we had back in the 60s and 70s

Even today's tiniest cars have at least double the volume of their predecessor from a few generations ago

zell12

UK - Parking space sizes haven't increased since the 1970s but today's cars are up to 55% bigger

Parking guidelines haven’t changed in 50 years, with the requirement for public bays to be 2.4m wide by 4.8m long.

The British Parking Association says that these dimensions are 'neither minimum nor written in tablets of stone' and councils and car park operators are free to designate their own bay measurements. It remains the most common size used to ensure a maximum volume of parking spaces. 

sydthebeat

Car parking size requirements for most local authorities

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119407814#Comment_119407814

After using the car park with the sub 2m space 2.4 meters seems like luxury with masses of room. That still leaves 20cm either side of that merc and 40cm to another merc (or other 2m wide car) if two park nicely between 2.4 meter lines.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119407826#Comment_119407826

Well my point here all along is that local authorities make up their own rules when it suits them. In this case they needed to say they had loads of space in this particular car park because they took spaces away somewhere else. The need for spaces is even greater now since covid as the concil have removed more on street parking to allow for outside spaces for cafes and take aways.

MakersMark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119407704#Comment_119407704

The begrudgery is strong in this one.

Lumen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119407905#Comment_119407905

I don't begrudge anyone driving a taxi if they choose to.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119407905#Comment_119407905

the ad hominem is strong in this one.

Atlantic Dawn

The size of parking space does influence where I shop, I avoid where possible somewhere that will likely result in the car being door dinged by every car parking next to mine due to the spaces being too small. I do like the LIDL spaces in their newly opened/refurbished stores.

magicbastarder

i'd keep quiet about that, all the S class and range rover owners will flock to those lidls and take up all the spaces.

Lumen

From a planning perspective it might make sense to make the size of the spaces proportional to the distance from the shop.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119408158#Comment_119408158

Or maybe we should get those who choose to drive oversized barges or tanks to pay a little bit extra to cover the costs of the extra space they take up?

magicbastarder

just thought this was tangentially related.

https://twitter.com/WorldBollard/status/1553659528402567170

The Continental Op

I hated the video until the cop hit it - but we are going a little off topic. That video is worth its own spot in the Motors forum.

sydthebeat

How do buses get through that??

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119410969#Comment_119410969

Think buses are the point of the junction? The bus lane is in the middle of the road and that narrow section allows other traffic to go on through the junction unopposed..... except by bollards.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119410978#Comment_119410978

Not sure about that, the middle lane is going the opposite direction. Look at the road writing.

magicbastarder

it's a bidirectional bus lane, by the looks of it. the bollards are obviously where the 'paint removers' tag is.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6756261,-0.3792627,89m/data=!3m1!1e3

C. Eastwood

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119410963#Comment_119410963

Not a good idea to allow Human Beings design road layout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119407704#Comment_119407704

Surely parking spaces should be specifically designed for the biggest car?

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119413312#Comment_119413312

parking spaces should be designed for the average or median car, i'd argue; why design a car park capacity around car sizes which most cars don't match?

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119413312#Comment_119413312

If you have read posts that state the recommended sizes then parking spaces are designed for the biggest. Its a little tight for some at 2.3 meters but enough space for the biggest car if well parked. The problem is some councils and private car park owners want to jamb in more cars to either make a point or make more money.

Muahahaha

Definitely a problem with older car parks and newer cars. At this point if there is a free space in between two SUVs I dont bother using it as if I park in the dead centre its going to be hassle getting out the door and if parked off centre to the left the car next to me will have trouble getting in his door.

Ive wondered before is there an EU agency that has a remit over the width of cars. As they just become wider and wider they'll eventually cause more accidents on our narrower roads. Surely there has to be a point that the EU says enough is enough and regulates what car manufacturers can put on the market. Id say we've reached that point now.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119409075#Comment_119409075

They already do by way of increased VRT, VAT and Motor Tax.

So your all good there.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119413454#Comment_119413454

there's been a very marked proliferation in ford rangers in dublin and in general recently; a hell of a lot of them utterly spotless and gleaming, not exactly giving off vibes of being used on the farm or in construction.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119413499#Comment_119413499

And there was me thinking that these charges were to do with increased pollution and increased wear on the road! Remind what the connection is between these charges and the costs of private parking again please?

Muahahaha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119413528#Comment_119413528

I know of one owner of a Ford Raptor and he is a head chef, he has zero need for a pick up truck. Ive yet to see any farmer buy one and theres a fair few around me.

But since they are legal people are going to buy them and car manufacturers will keep satisfying market demand for bigger and bigger vehicles, its clear that the direction of travel is towards American vehicle sizes. Which is why there needs to be a point that the EU regulates the widening of vehicles as many roads are too narrow for two of these things to pass each other without slowing right down.

As it is when I meet a SUV on my own narrow rural road with no painted white line my immediate reaction is to brace myself for coming within 30cm or 40cm of it at a speed of 70kph, thats all the wiggle room you have and if either driver gets it wrong then its big trouble.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119407021#Comment_119407021

I remember decades ago when I got a new car, not a big one, scraping off a pillar there. Will not park there, use parallel road instead.

zell12

The trend of “autobesity” is forcing car park providers to think of new ways to accommodate larger cars, such as introducing wider bays. However, the British Parking Association (BPA) told Which? that adapting to the trend of bigger, wider cars was not always easy. Multistorey car parks in particular provide challenges to growing car sizes, as they are not easily adaptable and rebuilding is too costly.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/aug/26/more-than-150-car-models-too-big-for-regular-uk-parking-spaces

magicbastarder

Worth noting that they mention the widths of at least two models of car in that article, but they state the width without the wing mirrors.

AndrewJRenko

Maybe we need SUV sized spaces with SUV sized charges?

Dr Turk Turkelton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121033144#Comment_121033144

Thank you. I've been saying this for ages so I'm glad someone else is supporting it.

If have no problem paying extra for a good sized space.

Also these spots should be the premium spots in the car park so that if you are paying the extra charges you're nearer the door of the shop in case of inclement weather etc.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121034338#Comment_121034338

Why should SUV owners get the premium location? If you want SUV size AND premium location, then you should be paying double double!

Dr Turk Turkelton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121034361#Comment_121034361

Suv owners should get the premium location because they are paying for it. Not really bothered about the cost, I'll happily pay it for the larger spot in the premium location.

A canopy would be nice too. Would definitely help on a day like today with the sporadic showers or the very odd day where there is blistering heat.

Would be a nice money spinner for the car park owners.

I always use the short term parking at the airport when I'm on holidays as its great to get off your flight and just a quick stroll to the car and on the road rather than having to wait in a queue for a bus at midnight to a carpark a couple of miles away and then drive back to pick up the family. Made that mistake once and it sure won't be happening again.