Climate Change

Green&Red

Saw this on Twitter, he may as well have put the honest in inverted commas. This is the same journalist who is busy running down Frank Mitloehner, who *checks notes* has an actual PhD and is a professor on the subject. Gibbons loves science, just not the science he disagrees with

https://twitter.com/think_or_swim/status/1551876199718305795?s=20&t=RCvfSWoGN4tMXOCs_rv7rg

There's a serious information war going on

JohnChadwick

If public were fed the actual reality every single day on climate change there'd be too much hysteria leading to radical changes. This type of scenario wouldn't suit big businesses who thrive on predictability to keeping their profits rolling in.

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058256173/climate-change

Gibbons gets his weekly segment on matt cooper as well. Nearly threw the radio out the window the rubbish he was peddling. Its the usual stuff in the climate debate, two sides that are extreme with no middle ground. Cooper said they invited someone from the IFA to debate with gibbons but they declined. Probably for the best than to give him attention and more importantly credibility.

Jack C

Just after watching climate debate on Prime Time. Jayus could we have got anyone worse than Barry Cowen. Yer one the lecturer was probably wondering how this gobshite got elected. Surely to christ the industry can get someone to properly convey the arguments in favour of Irish agriculture.

farmertipp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119391960#Comment_119391960

I think that's the crux of our problem. we can't get anyone on rte to make a proper coherent argument.

Silverdream

https://www.rte.ie/player/series/prime-time/SI0000000825?epguid=IH000413019

farmertipp

ciaran Fitzgerald would be a hard nut to crack if he was on prime time

TheRiverman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119391960#Comment_119391960

"Yer one the lecturer" incorrectly said Co. Laois instead of Co. Offaly twice when referring to Conor McMorrow's report.

Lime Tree Farm

She said "other sectors are reducing by 60%", which sectors are those?

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119392127#Comment_119392127

No sectors...its bullshit

The government haven’t delivered on ambitious projects like universal healthcare or affordable housing.

Decarbonising the economy is a massive project.

They need to come up with realistic plans based on support for good ideas.

1 million electric cars seems unrealistic. A total shift to green energy generation seem unattainable in a country that has a nimby attitude to turbines etc.

Why not apply a few practical ideas like:

1) Promoting car pooling with free tolls, fuel credit and reduction in road tax.

2) Encourage those people who can to work from home with incentives to reduce car journeys

3) If they want people to reduce cow numbers then a significant tax credit system should be in place to ensure if a fellows goes down in numbers that he isn’t out of pocket

4) Promoting solar installation on state buildings, commercial and farm buildings

5) A funded grassland survey to investigate farms that could benefit from clover to fix nitrogen and multi species swards to replace grain feeding

6) Afforestation on idle state land to act as a carbon sink

7) Scrap excess services or opt for smaller buses / less carriages on public transport routes with low uptake on capacity

Green&Red

Sinead is going to write some music for it, so crisis averted

https://twitter.com/SMcNallyMusic1/status/1551884738801156103?s=20&t=4pNRj9YZ1EMdc2o6dSllTA

bogman_bass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119391972#Comment_119391972

To be honest I think there is only a handful fit to do it. Harold Kingston from the IFA

Alan Jagoe and Thomas Duffy both formally of Macra

After that the standard drops off.

White Clover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119392880#Comment_119392880

Robert Coleman from Cork was on ear to the ground a couple of years ago. I thought he was very articulate.

Green&Red

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119392880#Comment_119392880

Thomas Duffy is on Claire Byrne at the moment, hes very articulate. Excellent on twitter also

cute geoge

Thomas duffy ,harold kingston etc are the only ones suoiable to represent farmers at the moment even tim cullinan is just not good enough debating with these tree huggers

farmertipp

Tim knows his stuff. a good operator but not good in public unfortunately

minerleague

The problem as I see it is Ireland is suited to growing grass and keeping cattle ( we export most ) other countries are suited to growing other crops ( bananas, oranges etc. ) Consumers and supermarkets have driven down prices so each country specializes in smaller number of goods ( that they do cheaper than anyone else ) and we trade these goods around the world. What the greens are suggesting is that we farm less cattle and diversify into other crops not taking into account more energy and costs needed here to grow crops that need hot weather ect. Even though global warming is just that ( global ) they seem to suggest each country tackle its own emissions without considering knockon effects ( ie more cattle elsewhere ) or indeed if some countries are doing anything.

White Clover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393258#Comment_119393258

Good assessment there. The bottom line is a very small cohort of TD’s are trying to railroad their naive ideals into legislation in this country. If this is democracy, I am lost for words.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393278#Comment_119393278

Bit of theater for you from the aforementioned TD's....... sorry, this one is a senator rejected by the electorate, too.

https://twitter.com/NextIrishGE/status/1552221864889573376?s=20&t=1P0xGhHlzeTjPhT_QsmE_Q

White Clover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393363#Comment_119393363

As @wrangler would say, "Sad" !!

Green&Red

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393258#Comment_119393258

The idea that we switch to crops ignores so much, primary being the massive start up cost, the lack of a market and the lack of knowledge. They just think farmers are all the same and have the same skillset

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393363#Comment_119393363

You'd imagen the government will fold over this, if Charlie gives in to the 30% any rural fg/ff td that backs it is finished and any green td that relents to a lower limit is also finished with their target electorate

J.O. Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393427#Comment_119393427

I know the greens don't know much about farming but there's big differences in land as well.

There's a big difference in the land around the ploughing championships compared to the west.

Then there's some of the small fields you'd hardly turn a combine harvester in the size of them now.

J.O. Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393476#Comment_119393476

It'll hardly come to that, they'll come down somewhere in the middle round 25/26% where both sides claim a victory.

That said the greens possibly are daft enough to walk if they don't get 28/29%. They might get re-elected in leafy foxrock but depending on the outcome of an election some other group may have enough to make up the numbers in a new government.

Morris Moss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393121#Comment_119393121

Just listened to it, your right he is very articulate, but he talked for 6 or 7 mins and said absolutely nothing of relevance, going on about conspiracy theories instead of addressing some of the inaccuracies that have been spouted on rte over the last week.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393427#Comment_119393427

Or the same soils.....or that they want to poison them with the pesticides it would take to get appropriate yields of those crops to even keep them at a subsistence level with the **** return they would get from the multiples driving down prices on them when they get the squeeze on.

bogman_bass

And you can see why SF are shutting up and letting them duke it out.

Let the government parties get their digs in while remaining an option to either side during the next election.

cynical? Very! But also politically clever

bogman_bass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119394569#Comment_119394569

Disagree. he delt with the fundamental point that Georgie is an environmental extremist and shouldn’t be given the airtime.

too late to be going on about an interview that happened a week ago.

He took a different line to “oh no we’re not!” That might pique the public’s interest.

Preaching to the choir is not the name of the game.

Morris Moss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119394964#Comment_119394964

The public have little or no interest in this he said she said rubbish, what they do have an interest in is what all of this is going to cost them if agriculture doesn't "do it's part".

A figure of 4000 a year per house was pulled out of somewhere if agriculture only does 22%, I mean challenge the likes of that shite talk.

Anyway as I said he's very articulate and a lot more capable than myself on this, but sometimes you need to fight fire with fire.

Say my name

If this cohort of tds or the ifa or whoever signs this piece on reducing emissions in agriculture as it stands, it's goodbye all ruminants.

Reason it doesn't matter if it's 22 or 30% now. It's signing for a 50% reduction by 2030 and 100% of a reduction by 2050.

This is all optics on the Greens side and to give the farmers some false win if they sign.

Now soil sequestration is not included in this. Only emissions like you're a BMW factory. And by emissions, no carbon emissions from the soil. So to protect and enhance tillage farming in this country. But as above methane emissions are counted from cattle and as above it's an agreement that will descend to zero by 2050. As that's impossible from livestock that's the end of livestock farming.

It's drawn up with a mission. Only a fool would sign this in it's current form without having soil sequestration or even emissions included. Ammonia (fert ) emissions are included but not soil carbon. Which as anyone with cattle knows are higher from cattle grazing and lower and/or reducing in tilled ground.

It should be left till September and revised again.

amacca

I hope farmers as a group give up their differences, wake up and demand fair play here....

You want changes then the truth must be told, not half truths and massaged statistics

My own mother was starting to believe the guff she heard out of a spokesperson on prime time the other evening.....she said other industries have already taken up to 60% cuts....not one person asked her, what were these industries etc etc

It's shocking the stuff that's allowed be said without question/verification .....

Silverdream

Very hard to stomach what our TDs are pushing on us. It's not that Climate change isn't happening, it is the way Agriculture is being blamed and Targeted. Cutting numbers here is nonsense when all that will happen is the production will move to South America which in most parts the Cattle are not even Tagged half the time or have very lacklustre traceability. They can't even give an accurate figure of how much livestock are there. Yet they want to start cuts here!!

Then we got the Airline Industry, no Cuts there, the 2 foreign Holidays a year is all ok again.

Construction Industry, again no cuts, if anything it's worse now than ever in the Celtic tiger days. I pass a couple of huge Muck mansions being built at the moment, and they are huge, miles away from any Schools, no Transport links or any services you have to drive everywhere. So where's the Green thinking behind this kind of carry on.

No wonder farmers are raging over this,

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395488#Comment_119395488

But will they cop on and work together...once they cripple you theres no coming back from it....it always appears to be thin end of the wedge stuff with them

When it's shown to be complete and utter destructive nonsense maybe decades down the line that won't be any comfort to people whose lives were destroyed .....

SuperTortoise

A lot of sense being talked in this tread so far, unfortunately none of it will see the light of day in the media.

The greens and RTE will keep feeding the general population bullshit to suit their agenda.

J.O. Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119394928#Comment_119394928

Never interrupt your enemies when they're making a mistake and whoever you ask they'll tell you at least one of them is making a mistake.

The whole emissions thing is going to become a money making racket pay to pollute.

The plant based/ vegan thing is big business too. I don't see much pushing of fresh veggies going on. It's all factory made processed food. Hardly the most environmentally friendly option if that's the driver

Lime Tree Farm

And Boucher Hayes gets his dig in at the closing off stage of the interview

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/clips/22124731/

Green&Red

This lady is very articulate

https://twitter.com/KevinoHanlon12/status/1552335024233631744?t=xS3cxV2RQ8v5DFElSM_YEA&s=19

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393476#Comment_119393476

I never get it right, but what was it Albert Reynolds said, "it's the little things".

Unfortunately I don't see the greens walking, threatening is different. FF/FG don't want an election because of their crapness which will hand power to SF/+others, very likely also including the greens.

If we recall, the greens held onto power during the collapse of the country until their fingernails bled.

haybob

I'm a reasonable man, I'm too media shy for Joe Duffy can I ask honest question I dont know the answers to, in no particular order

Soya milk v dairy milk, what's the environment impact of producing soya milk including transport into the country v our own dairy sectors impact, I'd include other meat and dairy based substitutes in that too.

If we agree to the targets tomorrow, what is the impact on production?? What I'm getting at here is how do we feed the population ?? Both of this county and feck let's be daysent about it, the world.

The rathgar crowd won't like the price of a ribeye in aldi after this ?? Simple supply and demand economics, there are other socio economic groups that will be effected too like.

Fuel is only going to go up in both the short and long term, I don't know exactly what containers ships run on but I imagine it to be petroleum based, do they emit pollution ??

Cheap flight anyone ?? Tourism can't be touched not even mentioned heard the ica or icmsa said it???

All the greens are doing is pushing an urban rural divide, what the people need to realise is less emissions mean less production which means, ding, ding, ding, less food and more expensive food. This point is NOT being made..

Average handy lads like me will eventually vote healy rae or sinn fein... out of pure sickness or is it thickness

Last but not least my bit of turn for my mother's 40 year old stanley, 3.0 petrol range rover with no hitch ??? Business class flights .. I wonder.

riddles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119397426#Comment_119397426

Off the top of my head 80% of all Soy produced is going straight for animal feed. I don’t eat the stuff but I assume that 80% would replace a lot of animal protein which would reduce the need to use that land for animal husbandry reducing animal waste methane and all the energy consumed in processing animals.

we outsourced manufacturing to China a knowing they would not apply EPA standards that the EU requires to meet emissions targets. The container ships are one of the most highly polluting means of transport.

we import beef from Brazil and Argentina even though there’s no traceability and it’s causing rain forest clearance to increase beef production.

There’s a lot of nonsense about the whole thing. The Irish Green Party and greens around Europe are not very good and selling the message or indeed delivering tangible outcomes.

J.O. Farmer

A lot of the soy in animal feed is GM, it reminds me of the talk of chlorinated chicken in the US during brexit. I don't know if there's anything wrong for human consumption but currently I don't think the EU allow it.

Soybean meal is different to Soy milk though, I'd imagine it uses a lot of water and energy to produce. A comparison with dairy is valid. I don't have the figures though.

There's going to be a lot of energy used processing plant based materials if we eliminate animals. Big companies will make sure of that. We won't all be eating more fresh legumes (beans, lentils etc.) They'll all be in processed food.

Reducing animal production here will only increase production elsewhere but we're probably negligible on the world stage. The problem is a lot of land here is nor viable for tillage. Likely upshot would be we import even more food and the government would have to find new industries to replace the jobs for people currently indirectly employed by agriculture (think the vets secretary, the workers down the co-op store, the meat factory workers).

There's a lot of talk about emissions but not what making cuts means in real life.

Silverdream

Why did we go through all the data gathering of the Beef data genomics, Beep, and other Schemes and not use the data then. The first step in reducing emissions from agriculture is to use the most efficient Systems. For example on my own farm I have some 5 star Cows that weigh less than 500kg with Weanlings weighing 350-400kg. At the same time I have 850kg Cows that have 250kg Weanlings. It doesn't take a genius to figure out which ones need Culling.

An 800kg animal eats more, uses more resources than the smaller animal and often rears an inferior calf. So instead of our IFA boyo's promoting nonsense like seaweed and Bio-gas why don't they focus on what can easily be achieved. Use the data available to argue the case.

Dinzee Conlee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119398493#Comment_119398493

But it’s not beef cattle they are after it’s dairy isn’t it? Saw some show on TV3 last night and John Gibbons was on it - and he specifically called out dairy above all others. They want to reduce dairy, and expand tillage & horticulture. (For now anyways, it could well be dairy first, then beef)

But if food inflation continues the way it is - will the market dictate? If this climate change continues as is - with more droughts. Will farm gate prices continue to increase and so potentially less animals could bring in the same profit?

Maybe the big question here - will this continued food inflation, and more money to the primary producer be allowed to happen?

minerleague

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119398632#Comment_119398632

Will a day come and governments add a tax ( like sugar or cigarettes ) to beef and dairy products? to reduce consumption

blue5000

It seems a lot of the good stuff that farmers do is being left out of the equation. Take carbon sequestration for example, we have hedges, forestry and undisturbed grass land that AFAIK is not included in any calculation. We have to drag this back to the drawing board. Until air travel is calculated all negotiations are off.

How are they going to make us reduce cow numbers? CAP cuts? Most of the really big dairy farmers will be getting very little from CAP after next year’s review.

If the sums were done properly a lot of us are already pretty damn close to carbon neutral already, there’s not a word about this.

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119398940#Comment_119398940

Me thinks dawgs suggestion of a cow reducing compensation scheme on here hit some heads.

It's on the front page of the farmers journal today. Must be some pull again.

I was just thinking about an organic tillage farm here. They get their fym and slurry from conventional cow farms. If the farms consider the scheme where does the fym and slurry come from then?

You'd have to think about the scheme and that would push you to tillage. And to further that there's another push to organic. On farm here I can cut the N rates but only by maximising slurry and fym. If I was in tillage and organic and without these I could only see the farm getting run down.

A friend of father's was here recently with a recording of a landmark program filmed in the 80's of himself (an organic farmer) and even then he said he needed 5 years pasture for 1 years tillage and even at that they were using blood and bone meal at the time as a nitrogen source. With the current idiot talk of just tillage and rewilded ground that does away with the 5 years pasture as no livestock allowed.

There's nobody from farming let alone any tillage reps to say "Can we just not cop on a bit". Only winners in this conversation are the grain merchants.

Birdnuts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119398037#Comment_119398037

The livestock feed imports is a pretty big stick to beat the livestock sector with here alright - that and the fact that it was reported this week that Ireland imports 80% of its food which isn't a great look either for a country thats meant to have a world leading, Green agri sector. Now obviously we can't grow stuff like Bananas or grapes but the amount of imported stables like Potatoes, veg,Apples, raspberries etc. is problematic both from an emissions point of view and the rising cost of same due to energy prices and logistic issues. This all needs some serious market corrections/intervention which can only be done on a Government/EU level to achieve better self sufficiency here and across the EU. It also calls into question successive government food/farming strategies that focused on a narrow range of bulk agri commodities for export markets which pushed farmers into intensification and specialization with the inevitable fall outs we see via rising input costs, decreasing margins and the need to reign in pollution of all types.

25%

https://twitter.com/farming_indo/status/1552678777565626370?s=20&t=2kVo-GQG3oqzz-htbDq91A

Birdnuts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119399990#Comment_119399990

After all the huffing and puffing that figure was probably the form horse - depending on your perspective it ain't too bad given what other sectors are meant to be carrying. The EU/Gov now need to put their money where there mouth is to fulfill all the talk about a "just transition"

yosemitesam1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119400036#Comment_119400036

Is there a plan of how that 25% is achieved or was it a case of come up with a target then see how can we achieve it?