Camogie SemiFinal attendance

Tombo2001

Wasnt at this myself, but my kids were at it.

Two very good games by all accounts but OMG an attendance of just 3'500.

This is shocking stuff.

I really dont understand how for example 52'000 attend the Galway hurling semifinal, 68'000 attend the Galway mens football semifinal but only 3500 can attend a double header camogie semifinal - with tickets costing just €15 for an adult.

There is no way this can be put down the quality of the games, as the Camogie is played at a high standard, they are excellent teams.

callaway92

1) Lack of real promotion over a long-term period (I mean over a 3/4/5 year period and not just the week leading up to the matches)

2) Even if offering free tickets to school students/underagers, I doubt the trip to Dublin was too appealing to many

Camogie Association need to understand this is a 5+ year project, so they likely weren’t expecting a big attendance- It’s a case of year-on-year increases

"Why wasn't anyone at the game" fumes man who wasn't at the game.........

Not sure what your gripe is here, to be honest. You sound like a LOI fanboy who bemoans the fact that Irish football is in the gutter, while wearing a Man City jersey in the pub beside Dalyer.

If the games were that good, why weren't you at them?

Your post smacks of hypocrisy, tbh.

Tombo2001

Thats a fair point. I did personally buy 5 tickets for it, was supposed to attend and then something came up at the last minute; also am not from any of the participating counties, the kids enjoy camogie and I wanted them to see some high level matches.

Butterbeans

It was a shame that the crowd was so small. Brought the kids in, great value, and 2 great games. And within that, you had a fair number only arrive in after the 1st game, as a lot of Cork and Waterford crowd left so the numbers for each game were lower again, but you'll get that at a lot of double headers anyway.

Very little promotion of it that I could see. No issues with ticket costs, great value. Surely there's enough camogie teams /clubs within the 4 competing counties and further afield to have a larger crowd, easy channels for promotion. Cost of travel is a huge factor now for anything we do.

As I said, it was a shame, as with low numbers and people well spread out over the Hogan, there was a lack of atmosphere. Although we were close to 2 very boisterous groups of Galway and Kilkenny supporters which was great, the kids got involved with them.

Can't find attendance figures for the finals (Junior, Intermediate and Senior), but looking at 2021, they were hoping for 30,000 attendance, obviously no attendance for 2020, and they were aiming for 25,000 for the 2019 finals, building on it each year. Huge increase from semi final numbers. Hopefully there'll be a good crowd for the finals this year

Eoinbmw

If it was any good it would be attended!

callaway92

There was no way they were near 30,000 for the Triple header finals last year

Thing in relation to the OP’s question - Couldn’t you ask same about the Meagher, Rackard, Ring triple header? Absolutely nobody at it - It was bizarre. Was at them and I thought quality was good

Again though, it comes down to long-term proper promotion and for people to eventually believe in the quality of it

Butterbeans

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119384551#Comment_119384551

Ah yeah, I wasn't trying to suggest there was 30,000 there last year, it's probably telling that the actual attendance is hard to come by. Like any organisation, they have their targets, meeting them is another thing.

100%, it's down to persistent promotion to get the numbers in, the quality games are there.

Leroy42

More on women's sports attendance in general rather than just camogie. Is it that attendance is still largely a male-driven situation? The dad thinks of going to the games, and getting his daughters to go?

Of course, there are plenty of women that go and are the reason to go, I am talking more about in the general sense.

And if Dad doesn't have daughters then it isn't really something that he will be interested in. So, to get bums on seats you are limiting your audience to girls who play the sport itself, and have a father that is interested, or at least willing, to go.

I think over time, as this generation matures from playing as kids to adults, things will begin to get better as those that played and attended when they were younger now take the mantle themselves, but that is missing at the moment.

CreadanLady

I think it is a long term culture thing. Even today the mens senior intercounty championship gets way more coverage and interest in every facet imaginable, whether it be ticket sales, stadia filled, media coverage, interviews etc. It is seen (whether officially or unofficially) as the pinnacle event of the GAA sporting calendar and everything else is in second place.

It doesn't matter if it is right or wrong or intentional or accidental. that is just the way it is whether we like it or not.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119384539#Comment_119384539

So most club hurling matches arent good either then ?

Great thinking there ........ 😏

castletownman

The elephant in the room is the fact that they are making Croke Park available when the demand doesn't meet the supply. Croker probably made a loss even hosting the games on Saturday (admittedly off-set by a bumper crowd Sunday)

I mean the GAA broke from tradition by moving the minor finals away from the curtain-raiser to the senior, and the hurling final subsequently broke attendance records (while the Jubilee teams waved to empty stands). Yet they cow-tow to the woman's sport movement by hosting camogie semis in a deserted venue- was Portlaoise or O'Connor Park not good enough? Definitely wouldn't have stood out as embarrassing as it did on the telly anyway.

Look at the ongoing women's Euro 2022 championship. England are riding a crest of a wave and are in the semi-final. Where's their next game being played? Bramall Lane. Why? Because the relative authorities realise that it's ridiculous to think they'd even one-third fill Wembley, and smaller, provinicial grounds = better atmosphere.

There was a great deal made of one of the recent ladies football finals setting global attendance records for woman's sport. But that wasn't organic either as they got as many kids in for free as possible.

Uncle Pierre

Camogie final attendance last year was just over 20,000.

Ladies Football final tends to get bigger crowds, but LGFA are clever in how they see to this. Every club in the country is levied something like €200 at the start of the year for All-Ireland tickets, and they can choose between something like eight adult tickets or two adult tickets and 20 or 25 children's tickets (apologies for not having precise numbers - am not involved in ladies football myself). So you then get clubs from all over the country bringing busloads of kids to the final for a day out, because they've already paid for the tickets anyway, and this of course swells the attendance figure.

Eoinbmw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119384830#Comment_119384830

Travelling out the road to a Junior B game is a hell of a lot more appealing then to trying to get up to Croker for Camogie game!

GAA need to open their eyes should be home or away and a toss of a coin to host the Final!

Thats the cold reality of it!

Leroy42

There is another aspect to playing matches in Croke park, aside from the attendance. Senior ladies deserve to play in Croke Park every bit as much as senior men?

It is a goal, a sometimes once in a lifetime event for many of the players. Sticking them in some small ground in Portloaise, or whatever, doesn't have the same memories.

kksaints

https://twitter.com/scorelinesport/status/1550895152796934144?t=tQYqNNGM2La6Z-lHEPBNCg&s=19

For four counties that's a really poor attendance although the cost of transport is a big problem for fans at this stage. Personally I think there's an overuse of Croke Park amongst all codes at this stage and the novelty for fans going there has long worn off. It's a shame for the players but it might be better if the Semifinals were at a smaller ground and I don't mean Semple or Pairc ui Choimhe which would still be too big for those crowds.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119385945#Comment_119385945

But yet people dont go to them either ...... ?

irelandrover

Beyond the top level, Irish people dont really attend sports. You can see it in everything, LOI has poor attendances but the internationals get 10s of thousands. Rugby teams get poor league attendances and sell out the Champions cup. Hurling/football league games arent as well attended as championship games.

The fact is that camogie isn't the top level and in general womens sport isn't top level, therefore it gets poor attendances.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386185#Comment_119386185

janey , that is a shocking figure ..... 😮

I dont think the Semis of the camogie or LGF should be in Croker, only finals should be held there.

There just isnt the draw - simple as that . Croke Park is over used now, and the reality is that people just wont/dont go to watch camogie or LGF unless they have a vested interest (relative/friend/spouse/clubmate playing.)

Our club will send good support for the final , and have a lot of supporters at it, because its a final and we have girls involved - Semi finals in Croke pk just dont entice people to go nowadays.

The sooner that those 2 organisations fall under the GAA , the better. They are run quite poorly at lower levels, and lack the knowhow and intelligence that those running GAA have in promotion of the games etc.

Furze99

People vote with their feet, their pockets and their time. On related matter I believe a womens soccer tournament is on RTE at the moment, probably cheap and fills a good bit of air time. Have you heard any hype about it? Have you watched any games? I couldn't be arsed investing a couple of hours to watch any of them bar maybe the final.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388087#Comment_119388087

So ?

you "believe" its on? Well, if you dont really know its on, then you mustnt be a 'sports' fan, just a premier league fan? Probably just watch 'your clubs' games on sky sports?

If Ireland had qualified there would be more 'hype' and maybe then you would have watched it?

Also the womens Tour de France is on at the moment ...

Just because you dont watch, and arent interested in all sports, doesnt mean no one else is interested in womens sports, of all types.

NIMAN

Demand obviously isn't there for it.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388336#Comment_119388336

A counterpoint might be that the LGFA final was attended by 12000 in Croke Park in 2012 ("demand obviously wasnt there for it") and by 56000 in 2019 ("demand obviously was there for it").

Hammer Archer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388356#Comment_119388356

Croke Park was capped at 40,000 for last years ladies football final and I'd say you could have easily gotten well over 60,000 without that cap as it was a nightmare to get tickets for.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388446#Comment_119388446

Id say because Dublin and Meath were playing?

Local venue for both counties....

Whereas the venue for Kilkenny vs Cork is a trek ...

Croke Pk would be better if it wasnt in Dublin

;) :P

funkey_monkey

TBF - the standard of senior camogie is decent and is very watchable stuff. What strikes me from the attendances is that it is mainly groups of young girls - presumably being brought down by their club.

Having it on TV is a double edged sword - it generates interest but at the cost of casual supporters who will just stay at home and watch on TV.

In regards to the finals what caused the spike in attendances from 1997 onwards? Was this due to young camogs getting free attendance?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_All-Ireland_Senior_Camogie_Championship_finals

average_runner

There is a few things at play here:

1) Both Galway and Kilkenny are in the men's senior finals so cost come into it.

2) For the first time I can remember, tickets for the mens finals were on ticketmaster for sale, so i think the time of year is having a knock on effect. People are either away or coming back from holidays.

I would usually bring the daughter to the camoige and football finals no matter who is playing, but because its in the summer this year we are away most weekends.

They should of played the club championship first and then the county stuff starting in August and finals in Sept!

MfMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388584#Comment_119388584

Unfortunately, I would have to disagree about the standard. I don't mean to be harsh or critical about teams and players who put in the same effort as their male counterparts, but the 2 games last Saturday I found to be of a poor level. Lot of aimless play, lack of cohesion, poor decision making, handling and passing mistakes, poor tactical set-ups etc. I know you can't compare like-for-like anyway but there's no comparison between the mens' and ladies' game at the top level. Ladies football I find of a much better standard vis-a-vis the male game.

This may be one reason why attendances were so poor. I think a lack of knowledge and profiling that the semis' were on was also a factor. Here in Galway, the main focus was completely on the AI final on Sunday, completely overshadowing the camogie.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388329#Comment_119388329

Pah! You're missing the point, I am a sports fan and would follow most goings on. You want to see games played at the higher standard and bar one or two sports, women just don't compete at the same standard. Where they do compete at a high skills level and the competition is good, it's watchable. But there are many instances where the skills level are lower or matches are ridiculously one sided.

The primary benefit of sport though is participation at whatever level. So that's what is really important at the end of the day, not how many go along to shout or watch on TV.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119384713#Comment_119384713

Watching and following sports is still very much a male driven thing.

The reality is that a larger percentage of lads get invested in following sports from a young age than girls do.

And it's also a reality that men just don't like watching women's sports to the extent they like watching men's sports.

So you have the majority of sports fans not that interested in women's sports.

And as the poster I quoted alluded to, it's only if the men have female family members that are interested in it they get interested in it.

That means that the ceiling for interest in women's sports is pretty low and all the marketing and promotion in the world will not raise it.

That being said 3,500 is abysmal for what it was.

Dyr

The ladies final was a high standard, hmmm....in comparison to the Hurling final?

It's a bit like asking how come Bruce Springsteen sells out Croke Park when there's a perfectly good Springsteen cover band in your town that can't fill the local

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388969#Comment_119388969

So youd only watch elite sport then? Only finals?

Question - Would you watch Man City hammer a lower league side in the Fa cup?

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119389260#Comment_119389260

Re the latter, I wouldn't be arsed. Just as I wouldn't be arsed in some Div3 GAA fixture.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119389824#Comment_119389824

So just Premier/Elite sport for you then....

Fair enough - But wouldnt a Senior all irl final not be elite ?

Or is it you only watch mens sport?

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119389257#Comment_119389257

The debate regarding the standard is subjective to a degree. I might feel the standard is very high. You might feel its not. To some degree it depends on the person making the judgement, they often see what they want to see.

Lots of people might feel the standard of male gaelic footballers isnt very high. You might argue that it is.

What is a red light however is when people want to be derogatory about it. Thats quite different to just not thinking its a high standard.

average_runner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119389962#Comment_119389962

In fairness the womens senior football final last year was way better than any of the men's games last year!!