Ireland running out of accommodation for Ukrainian refugees due to surge in non-Ukrainian refugees?

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120420036#Comment_120420036

What repercussions? We take in far more than France per capita but they seem to avoided any sanctions. Is it because everyone sees how militant the French population are (look at the pension riots) and the EU are afraid of doing anything there.

To get to an island on the far side of Europe you need to cross a lot of safe countries, what’s the attraction here? Are we still offering full dole,accommodation and free health care?

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120420075#Comment_120420075

I imagine the problem would be that even a cap on numbers would face a lot of legal challenges. We could see a scenario where the government legislates for such a cap on refugee numbers but then Irish courts overrule the new laws and declare the government actions illegal. The government might be acting within EU law, but the legislation could then be appealed to the courts on different grounds and under different international human rights laws - the whole area is a legal minefield.

To be honest, trying to halt reduce or halt refugee numbers in order to ease the housing crisis would seem a bit misguided. It would be unlikely to succeed or to do anything to improve the dire housing shortage situation.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120420525#Comment_120420525

Well, the country has to be aware of its obligations under human rights laws. Unilaterally announcing the country was "full" would have many knock on effects. It's supposed to be a country of a hundred thousand welcomes and actively seeking visitors, migrant workers and inward investment. Saying to Europe and elsewhere "We are on the verge of collapse here and cannot accept a single more refugee" would be a hell of a negative message to send out to the world. Even some of the poorest and most deprived countries in Europe are still taking in refugees.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120420588#Comment_120420588

No, ones on Virgin Medias current affair programme, and others by, I think, the Irish Times

Indeed Immigration is seen by over 10 percent of the population as one of the biggest issue facing the country up from 2 percent prior to the election, and that 10 percent was from early autumn

Montage of Feck

Filling a bucket with a whole in.

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120420555#Comment_120420555

Ah mother of god where do you suggest we house all those who arrive then? I’ve asked a few regulars and got no answers. Do we have unlimited accommodation available for anyone who arrives and wants to be housed ? We’re a small country, we currently have people from the huge continent of Africa looking to be housed, is there nowhere else in Africa they can find safety?

same with Albanians,Georgians,Afghans etc, how Ireland their destination of choice?

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120420530#Comment_120420530

Ireland has an opt out clause. It just hasnt invoked the clause.

There may be some legal challenge if Ireland suddenly said "thats it no more and we are turning away any new Asylum Seekers and Refugees" but anything can be legally challenged and there would still be no obligation on Ireland to accept Asylum seekers.

As mentioned, Ireland has an opt out clause under the Lisbon treaty. It doesnt need to accept people if it chooses not to do so.

And even if it didnt have an opt out, the european court is not going to force any country to accept refugees, ad infinitum. Those countries may be fined or bad mouthed, but they cant be forced to accept people into their soverign state.

If there was any strong, irrefutable law that was forcing countries to accept Refugees, all the EU countries would have targets.

As we know, they dont have targets.

Hosting Refugees ls done via good will and collective spirit.

Some countries have taken in more than others, but those that have taken in fewer are not being hounded by a debt collector and told they must take in more or else be evicted from the EU, have sanctions imposed etc.

That simply isnt going to happen.

We must also remember that Ireland is already a front runner in terms of the number of Asylum Seekers/Refugees it has taken per capita and as stated, has an opt out clause anyway.

Ireland is very much positioned to slow the numbers to a trickle, if it were so inclined.

Nobody in the European courts etc is going to be hauling Ireland over a barrel if it stemmed the numbers now.

With respect to the impact on housing caused by Refugees and Asylum Seekers, I would have to disagree that there is no impact.

There are over 400 Asylum Seekers sleeping on the streets now because there is no accomodation for them.

If another 700 arrive next week, and they surely will, it is likley that many of them will find themselves in tents on the street also.

Of course the govt will try to house these people and that is the just and human thing to do.

But as we all know, Ireland has very little available accommodation and any space allocated to refugees or Asylum Seekers is accommodation that is not going to Irish residents that have been evicted.

Its the plain and simple law of physics, sadly.

Two bodies cannot occupy the same space at the same time.

I know it isnt the truth that we want to hear. But the truth, it is.

The upcoming eviction ban is of course going to see many people evicted into homelessness. We are beyond the point of accomodating Asylum Seekers currently and have over 400 living on the streets.

To keep allowing more and more people into the country, whom are not in receipt of preapproved accommodation, can only fuel the growth in homeless numbers.

The Govt needs a better policy to manage this crisis and some form of control over the numbers entering the homelessness category (homeless originating both domestically and internationally) is an integral part of the solution.

The problem at the moment is that the eviction ban is growing the domestic influx of homeless people and the open door Asylum seeker policy is also growing the international influx of homlessness.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120420729#Comment_120420729

Nobody can deny that the housing crisis is a disaster. Irish people being forced to sleep in hostels or even in tents because there isn't enough accommodation for them is a horrendous state of affairs.

But nonetheless, I'm not sure even a serious domestic housing crisis would be enough excuse for Ireland to unilaterally opt out of its international protection commitments. Other European countries would immediately point out that they too have serious housing and accommodation crises, but still continue to offer asylum to people who arrive at their borders. It would be a very controversial move and not something that could be done lightly (and as I said further up, would leave the state wide open to legal challenges.....applicants might decide to bypass EU law and challenge the state through the courts on the new legislation under different international refugee laws to which Ireland is a signatory).

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120420555#Comment_120420555

To be fair most people are very welcoming. Its a small loud minority thats not.

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120421007#Comment_120421007

I keep asking posters like you who believe we have to house everyone who arrives looking for international protection in case the EU sue us but where do you suggest we house them?

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120421007#Comment_120421007

I think there is a difference between a govt fulfilling humanitarian obligations and putting a block on Asylum Seekers completley.

I dont think many people are saying we should block Asylum seekers completley, but assigning the numbers to available accommodation is a sensible policy and it is really the only policy that will stop people ending up on the streets.

Who is to say that Asylum Seekers over subscribed to available accom wont sue the govt for turfing them out onto the streets?

We may, ironically, see a larger legal challenge from the current govt policy, arising from people being forced to live in tents, than you would if Ireland just restricted the numbers under condition of the lisbon treaty.

With regards the govts obligations to house Asylum Seekers, Ive already explained that there is no obligation.

There is no legal requirement to do this, so the argument for obligations is legally redundant.

Remember that old saying, everything in moderation.

I think thats really all people are calling for. Moderate the influx in accordance with available accommodation and the needs of an underhoused resident population.

mcsean2163

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120419939#Comment_120419939

https://m.independent.ie/news/full-time-worker-forced-to-sleep-in-his-car-fears-dying-homeless-as-hap-properties-at-all-time-low-42410221.html

you can read his story here. Maybe the independent can answer you if you have further questions.

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120421378#Comment_120421378

Gerry contacted homeless services, and at the end of last month he was given a room in Oaklodge, the Mid-West Simon Community’s emergency accommodation centre in Limerick.

There ya go, that answers my question, presented himself to homeless services and was given a bed, so wasn't left sleeping on the streets as a result of non-irish.

Thanks.

mcsean2163

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120421461#Comment_120421461

Fwiw, it does not give a duration between contact and housing..

Gerry contacted homeless services, and at the end of last month he was given a room in Oaklodge, the Mid-West Simon Community’s emergency accommodation centre in Limerick.

I think it is good we are accommodating Ukrainian people but cannot deny it has a cost. Our priority responsibility is surely to our citizens and those already here (including work visas asylum seekers etc.) and then to everyone else. I imagine this requires a balancing act.

There's a housing crisis in case you hadn't noticed 😉

robbiezero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120421325#Comment_120421325

Very common sense post. Of course to some of the clowns on this thread, you are a far-right racist extremist.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120421007#Comment_120421007

Agreed , but people saying we’ve loads of room need to pipe down , no houses , no room

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120419733#Comment_120419733

Any non national who is in social housing or renting on a hap payment.

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120423208#Comment_120423208

So anyone who's been in social housing for years should be kicked out if an Irish family need a house?

greenspurs

I think this is finished now ...

🙄

Mr. teddywinkles

Oh its quiet here.do you know why. The NGOs and charities are on break.

Gobshites!!!!

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120421215#Comment_120421215

I think the main point here is that the housing crisis and the refugee / asylum seeker issue are two completely different subjects - one hasn't caused the other.

If we had net immigration of zero and also zero refugees arriving, we would still have a huge housing crisis. The state failed to build anywhere near enough social housing in the last 20 years and private building was also miles short of where it should have been. We're probably talking a shortfall of hundreds of thousands of houses and apartments. But international agencies and other governments would still point out that this does not give Ireland any right to opt out of its international protection requirements. Making a total hames of your domestic policies would not give you some sort of a free pass on this - it should have been obvious to everyone in government 6, 7 or 8 years ago that there was a huge accommodation crisis coming down the tracks. Probably far more Irish people are being impacted by the government screwing up with housing, than anything to do with the numbers of migrants arriving.

BlueSkyDreams

The housing crisis isnt caused by record immigration levels of Asylum seekers/refugees, agreed.

But the crisis is absolutley worsened by the numbers of these groups arriving.

And so to is the strain on public services.

If 1 million Asylum Seekers arrived tomorrow at Dublin Airport, would their arrival impact on the accomodation & infrastuctural needs of the residential population in Ireland or not?

If the answer is yes, then we acknowledge, in a reasoned way, that there are limits to the number of asylum seekers we can accept, if we are to maintain a fair standard of housing & public services for the resident population.

It is not racist or heartless to accept this fact.

We dont have legal obligations to accept Asylum Seekers under the Lisbon Treaty.

How many times does this have to be said.

I appreciate you are a well intended person and you want to be inclusive. But when the bath is overflowing, the only way to stop your house flooding is to turn off, or at least turn down, that tap.

Any other approach will ultimatley result in a flood and unnecessary damage will ensue.

riddles

The assylum concept needs to be retired and this so called international protection malarkey. Change needs to be accepted at an EU level. It’s simply a case of developing a migration policy mirroring the US Canada and Oz.

the logic of EU citizens moving here to live on welfare has to be challenged also. We are broke full stop - when we can’t borrow money the game is up. People are coming here either to work or to live on welfare - the former is covered by visa program the latter should be turfed out if not able to self sustain themselves - hardly rocket science.

The notion that there is a house building figure if achieved reaches utopia is a complete nonsense - we’ve always had a housing problem because there is no planning.

Building houses without comparative increases in school places, water treatment, accute hospital beds, GP access, transport links etc is what we’ve always done. We also have almost zero provision for pensions which is another time bomb. The real Irish economy outside of multi national income can’t even come close to covering our cost base.

Council house rent is I assume the lowest cost housing available has an arrears pool of something like 30% nationally. Why do we give people rent money only to spend large sums trying to get it back off them?

Affordable housing has a similar arrears trend line and again a costly recovering. We seem to build more without correcting deficiencies is the existing model. Both channels are managed by local authority departments which are completely dysfunctional in their service delivery and largely apathetic. Monstrous squandering of money here.

i don’t think our political system which is based on short term populism being able to do anything much other that bumble from crisis to crisis. We live in a bizarre reality where ……ist’s and ism’s displace rational thinking.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120422143#Comment_120422143

Why do people need to pipe down? They can say what they want

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120426037#Comment_120426037

Hilarious drivel. Lots of people that dont work for NGOs or charities are ok with current policy.

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120426295#Comment_120426295

Hilarious indeed. Fake altruism is disguised as charity. Obviously dont give a shite the living conditions or living standard people will have to endure in this country as a result including migrants. I dont believe this money tree is endless and when it does I think people will suffer here a lot.

These so called people you think hold a majority should be held accountable then. Money racket the lot of it.

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120426114#Comment_120426114

I give up, the idea that there’s a separate housing budget for social housing for Irish people while simultaneously providing unlimited accommodation for those arrivals turning up at Dublin airport is madness

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120426292#Comment_120426292

Do you ever contribute anything but “smart “ one liners? And what’s with the stupid signature?

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120427283#Comment_120427283

People in this thread seem to be angry with the government admitting refugees but not with their disastrous handling of the housing crisis. I would have thought failing to provide enough houses for the population over the last 10-15 years is a far bigger crime than admitting refugees (Ukrainian or otherwise) into the country. We had huge accommodation problems in early 2022 before a single Ukrainian arrived here.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120427338#Comment_120427338

Can't we be both?

One has failed to increase supply, one has increased demand