Rent increase by landlord

SkryneRed

Hello, I'm currently renting a house in Firhouse. Landlord is a super nice guy. We started renting the house in 2019 and the rent was €1900.

Last week got a text from landlord that he wanted to increase the rent which is understandable since he never raised them for the past 4 years however he wanted to raise to €2150 a total of 13% increase. I have contacted him saying that RTB calculator stated that he can increase up to 6.7% since the house in the rent pressure zone. Got a reply by landlord that RTB calculator doesn't include the increasing interest rate and charges that he need to pay.

Any idea what should I do next?

Thanks

Mrs OBumble

Ask him to forward you written documentation of the rent increase, in the format proscribed by the RTB.

hunter2000

You will have to pay increase.

SkryneRed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119347316#Comment_119347316

Okay, thank you. I'll try to do that next.

What's lingering in my mind is that we are quite scared of doing more than what we already did (telling him that he cannot raise more because of the rent pressure zone) because don't want to be asked to vacate the house.

Wife is saying that we should accept the new rent

SkryneRed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119347321#Comment_119347321

I really don't mind the increase if the increase is as per the rate based on RTB. But the landlord is asking more than that.

Mrs OBumble

Yeah, it's a toss-up.

Legally, you don't have to accept it, and Threshold will help you to fight it.

But do you want to live with that sort of relationship with the LL. No increase since 2019 has saved you a bit. what's the supply alternative properties in your area? How much of a hassle would it be to move? What's your assessment of a fair rent for the property.

Personally, I accepted a rent increase that was a little about what was legal, with deficient paperwork. But this was tempered by the fact that the rent hadn't increased for years so was well behind the market. And I just filed the dodgy paperwork away carefully, to use as a wild-card : the LL is aging, and if his wife starts managing the place, we think she could be tricky to deal with, so would like some tricks of our own.

cagefactor

I am a landlord, that guy is pulling is the piss. It's 2% per year pro-rata he can increase, so if your there 36 months its 6% so I guess you are there a little longer and that's where the 6.7% is coming from. The 2% is the max, there is no allowance to lash in more because of 'interest rates'.

Tell him you will pay the 6.7% as per the law, if he persists tell him you will report him to the PRTB and revenue. https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/tenancies-board-vows-to-go-after-landlords-after-rent-rises-exceed-legal-caps-40903494.html

Still stihl waters 3

This is why landlords should follow guidelines and raise the rent every time by the maximum allowed

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119347321#Comment_119347321

No, they don't - its significantly above the RPZ limit. Please don't post on things you don't actually know about.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058254821/rent-increase-by-landlord

The landlords interest and other charges are not of your concerns, or re-chargeable. However, if they are actually unable to afford to keep renting (unlikely, at that rent, but anyway) they may choose to sell instead.

Thinkingaboutit

If a rent has not been increased for a long time, an increase can be backdated (some tenants of a big REIT are so finding), but the percentage seems, perhaps miscalculated.

SkryneRed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119347418#Comment_119347418

Thank you for the input. But like @Mrs OBumble said, we don't really want a sour relationship with the landlord as well.

Another thing is the landlord wanted the new rent next month which I think is another issue as well because if I am not wrong he need to give 3 months notice for rent increase.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119347489#Comment_119347489

Yes, they have to give notice for an increase. They are either totally unaware of the process, or chancing their arm.

dennyk

Got a reply by landlord that RTB calculator doesn't include the increasing interest rate and charges that he need to pay.

That's an issue the landlord will need to take up with the government, then, since the law doesn't say "the rent increase can't exceed the statutory limit unless the landlord's costs have increased more than that, in which case the sky's the limit!"

DubCount

The LL is in the wrong. The increase is above the RPZ rules, the notice period is insufficient, and the form of the notice is probably incorrect. Op would be quite withing their rights to take this to RTB and would win.

However, there is about 123 per month in the difference. If this is worth the fight, go for it. If this is worth a quiet life and good relationship with the LL, pay it and hope its another 3 years before the next increase.

No doubt this a dilemma many tenants are facing, pay the increased rent which is on foot of an invalid notice/above what is legally allowed, or, dispute it and wait for the valid notice of termination. It’s an unviable situation and must be considered with practicality in mind. From the LLs perspective, house prices must be close to piquing so selling up is very tempting if relations deteriorate with the tenant.

Still stihl waters 3

I can see the landlords side in that he hasn't put up the rent in 3 years and yet you see it as being unfair, illegal yes but hardly worth the fight, check out daft and there's 1 for rent in firhouse, a studio for 1400, move the search out 3kms and you can see you're getting a really good deal, if I were you I'd bite my tongue, would it be really worth winning the case for the landlord to decide he can cash it in the way the housing market is at the moment, I'd be counting my lucky starts and paying the extra

fash

One possible approach, to avoid a negative relationship outcome is to negotiate with the landlord - say:

" I hear what you are saying about having to pay increased rates etc - and I really do sympathize: all of us are facing increased costs so I can fully understand why you want this, but you do understand that legally you are only entitled to 6.7%? Look, tell you what, let's agree on X%"

You are effectively communicating to the landlord that "actually if you push me too far, I have other, financially better options"

You can even pull the plug on that illegal overpayment when you leave the apartment too

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348693#Comment_119348693

The LL also has another financially better option though.

The DayDream

Stop thinking that this landlord is a 'super nice guy'. He's pulling the same BS many of them do, thinking the rules don't apply to them, in fact often they don't even bother learning what the rules are, figuring that the balance of power is so heavily weighted in their favor that they can do what they like.

They can't tack on extra charges on top of the max increase. Otherwise what would be the point of max increase? Mind boggling that they can't comprehend that.

I would just open a dispute right away for 15 euro online. The rent increase is non valid on 2 counts and they need to be put onto the back foot, good relationship or not. They're the ones who started the whole thing putting pressure on you so screw feeling bad about it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348893#Comment_119348893

Legally, of course you are right, but the law is not the only consideration. The op could win the legal, and moral battle, but that will be of little benefit if the LL says “Sod this, I’m selling up” as thousands are. So the op has to do what is best for the op, and that means considering all options.

macvin

Tell his that like him, you have had a lot of price increases especially food and fuel and that you are finding it hard to save anything and that because you need to save a very euro from costs you have to argue with him on the amount of increase and the notice of the increase.

Tell him you entered the details on the RTB calculator and the highest it can be increased is €130 (may be slightly different depending on what month in 2019 you moved) and that 3 months notice is required.

Finish with that you love living there and that "we both get on well" and that you keep the house in good condition, so "can we agree the the new rent will be from October and it will be €2000 a month"?

If he's as decent as you say, he will come to an arrangement

 Got a reply by landlord that RTB calculator doesn't include the increasing interest rate and charges that he need to pay.

So the landlord is fully aware that you've checked the RTB calculator - he knows what legally he can increase the rent by, but is still insistsing on the increase. He's obviously not one bit worried about you going to the RTB.

Curious what these extra charges hes talking about are.

MakersMark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119347321#Comment_119347321

no...this is completely false

MakersMark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348893#Comment_119348893

In what way do you think tenancies are weighted in favour of landlords?

Please explain.

Tenants are not legally bound hy the contracts they sign.

They have to give less notice than landlords when leaving.

They can overhold for years without effective punishment.

You dont seem to have a clue what you're talking about I'm afraid.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348976#Comment_119348976

Have you insured anything lately? Was the price the same as last year? Or bought any building materials for maintenance/repairs? Seen any management charges bills from MUDs?

Not difficult to see increased charges at all.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348693#Comment_119348693

I wouldn't go with the fully understanding part. It's not legal.

wonski

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350027#Comment_119350027

Not difficult to not to see increased charges either going with that logic.

There are legal barriers of how much the rent can increase similarly there are legal barriers preventing tenant from not paying their rent or asking to reduce it regardless of the economy.

Landlords cost increased so have the tenants cost of living, the rent increase is regulated however and - like it or not - the law is the law.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350027#Comment_119350027

That's business for you. Your costs change and you have to manage. If those costs went down in any one year, the tenant has no right to a commensurate deduction from rent......so I don't see why people assume it should work the other way

handlemaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119347489#Comment_119347489

The Landlord isnt going by the law. Tell him look thrvmax rent as per the law is x . The earliest this can be applied is x months after written notification. Thanks for understanding anything other that that would not be in-line with he law and you dont want any issues arising from this.

handlemaster

The issue raised his costs have increased is a very odd statement to make.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350388#Comment_119350388

Their problem.

DubCount

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350399#Comment_119350399

Legally their problem. Their solution is to sell up. That makes it a problem for anyone renting or trying to rent.

fash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350100#Comment_119350100

There is nothing preventing a tenant asking for a rent reduction at any time.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350451#Comment_119350451

And?

BorneTobyWilde

That's some money down the drain for last 4 years. Why on earth don't you buy a house

macvin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350562#Comment_119350562

Do you know what the non recoverable costs of buying a house is? - Well over €10,000

Sometimes it doesn't suit if you are going to be in an area for just a few years.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350027#Comment_119350027

House insurance has not gone up by €250 a month, not in any universe.

Also it's a house in Firhouse, I don't know if you're familiar with the area but its a very mature residential area. The estates there don't typically have management companies. Any maintenance costs should come out of the landlord's pocket, not passed on to the tenant.

Either way, whatever "extra charges" this landlord says he has, he has no right to pass them on to the tenant, or try to charge over and above what the RTB calculator says he can increase the rent by.

However, the OP is caught between a rock and a hard place. If he conceeds to the demand and pays the inflated increase, what's to stop the landlord from doing the same again next year? And if he refuses, he could face hassle and/or a notice to terminate from the landlord.

Either way, its not right.

BorneTobyWilde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350582#Comment_119350582

He'd have this paid off in last 4 years. And then it's an asset

wonski

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350582#Comment_119350582

As opposed to €70000 paid in rent in that time.

In fairness we shouldn't discuss why op has or has not bought a house, but the €10000 that could have been lost in the process makes very little difference.

It is always better to pay off your own assets rather than someone else's.

Some people just can't buy their own because they can't save enough after paying their rent is main reason some keep renting. Especially when the rent is around 2k a month.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350056#Comment_119350056

Yes, cut out horse-****, nice-guy phrases like that. He’s your landlord not your mate. Tell him you don’t want to pay more than you’re legally obliged to (something we all “fully understand”). Tell him to set it out in an email - that way he won’t make up stuff that can be used against him later.

I’m a landlord myself (I rent off the books though) and am thinking of asking for a rent increase. Everyone is going to chance their arm in today’s environment. Be firm and mention the word “legal” and get him to our it in writing.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350762#Comment_119350762

Maybe you tenant should mention the word "legal".

newmember2

Say to him that you'll pay him what he's legally entitled to, and that you wouldn't be comfortable doing something illegal, or is he asking you to do something illegal (record this conversation with the phone in your pocket)?

He can give you notice of termination of lease contract at any time anyway so you've gained no guarantees by breaking the law and giving him what he's asking this time.

SkryneRed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350562#Comment_119350562

We've been trying to buy a house but considering we both are non Irish/EU it's quite difficult to obtain a mortgage.

Now that our permission stamp (stamp 4) has changed we are actively looking, and with the current housing market it'll be quite sometimes before we can but a house.

BorneTobyWilde

I'd live in a tent rather than throw that kinda money to a landlord for years.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350798#Comment_119350798

The OP will have Part IV rights. They'd want to check the dates as regards which one they are on. Landlord can only break at the end of the allowed interval unless it's for one of the allowed reasons.

Edit: Changes brought in in 2016. 4 years means they'd be on the newer cycle. Once they passed 6 months, they have the right to stay there for another 5 and a half years after that if they want. So two more years

newmember2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350562#Comment_119350562

Have you seen the fking price of them?

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119351673#Comment_119351673

Except if the LL decides to sell. Which is a real possibility in the current climate.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350783#Comment_119350783

The arrangement suits myself and the tenants. If you pay tax (on top of the other charges) it either isn’t worth it or you have to significantly increase the rent.

The current way is win-win.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119352785#Comment_119352785

Hopefully revenue don't do an audit.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119352792#Comment_119352792

I buy gold with the cash or just use it for loose cash payments. I think I’m alright.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119352785#Comment_119352785

Do not post on this thread again. Do not reply to this post. Do not try to give "advice" that involves tax evasion on this forum again.