Attitudes towards defilement of girls under 16 years of age in Britain.

political analyst

https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/glastonburys-john-peel-stage-faces-27404597

In 1975 and 1989, the late John Peel admitted to newspaper journalists that he had sex with under-age girls. Therefore, he was admitting that he had committed sexual crimes against children.

On a separate but related matter, an inquiry into the Telford grooming scandal found that authorities thought that under-age girls who were defiled by older men were consenting to it. Obviously, like in other English towns and cities, fear of being accused of racism was a factor in the authorities' failure. Some police officers in Telford thought that the victims were 'prostitutes'.

Regardless of perpetrators' ethnic or religious backgrounds, why would so many people who were aware of these crimes in Britain thought that girls who were sexually abused by some men were 'consenting' to sex with the perpetrators?

Because teenagers don't walk around with their date of birth written across their forehead?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058254483/attitudes-towards-defilement-of-girls-under-16-years-of-age-in-britain

They were white, working class and English. As such, they are the last group anyone has any sympathy for.

Subzero3

Was Elvis cancelled yet. Didn't he marry his 14 year old lover.

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119337151#Comment_119337151

Peel admitted that he believed that at least some of the girls he had sex with were under 16.

SEPT 23 1989

The petition was started by Jack Owens, a 26-year-old from Manchester, who attended the festival and said he felt uneasy whilst in the tent.

TheWonderLlama

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119337467#Comment_119337467

I heard Jesus' mother was a bit on the young side as well, right? Or so we're told.

BruteStock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119337292#Comment_119337292

Where has it been "debunked" , can I see?

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058254483/attitudes-towards-defilement-of-girls-under-16-years-of-age-in-britain

You really need to be in 1975 to judge , different era , there were little or no entertainers under 25 and the fans were young teens , I’m absolutely not condoning it but it was fairly wide spread a different planet to today , look how john peel could discuss it as if he had a sneaky spliff

all the legendary 70s are paedos by today’s standards

it’s still horrific

mazdamiatamx5

There's been a lot of talk about ant-white racism etc, some of it valid, but for me the elephant in the room is where the parents where in all of this. Is British society really so atomised?

mazdamiatamx5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119337292#Comment_119337292

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119337292#Comment_119337292

Er, no, it hasn't. In fact Professor Alexis Jay, who led the inquiry into the Asian grooming gangs, is now leading the UK's inquiry into Institutional Child Abuse (in relation to which most of the victims and perps were white British).

The Asian grooming gang scandal is not racist garbage. It is true that racists seeks to make political capital out of the issue, but that's a separate point.

As for what we let the Catholic Church get away with, we had the Ryan Commission well before the UK undertook a similar process. I'm glad they've caught up.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119337925#Comment_119337925

Now then, now then. Dear Jim, can you fix it for me to be molested...

Joking aside I watched the recent Saville documentary and was stunned at the end of it. I was sure there must be a third episode where his litany of crimes were laid out with the evidence. There wasn't.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119337467#Comment_119337467

They got married when she was 22, and apparently Elvis refused to have sex with her (when she wanted it) until they got married. So, they were engaged for 8 years before having sex, and she got married as an adult.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119337467#Comment_119337467

A bit further back but Charlie Chaplin was some man for the young wans

4 wives --

Age at year of marriage

17

16 (he was 36, she was pregnant at 15, acting together since 12)

24

18 (he was 54)

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119337292#Comment_119337292

There have been just as many abusers who were teachers as were priests so by your own standard of judgment the latter has been "debunked" as anti-clerical garbage.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058254483/attitudes-towards-defilement-of-girls-under-16-years-of-age-in-britain

It's possible they agreed to the sex at the time. It;s still not consent though, because obviously a child that age can't give legal consent; but it's not like he put a gun to the child's head (at least, not literally).

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338495#Comment_119338495

What was the legal situation in the UK at that time?

Re: your use of "legal consent". An underage person may be fully capable of consenting to anything. Or they may not be capable due to their immaturity. That depends on the person. In Irish law, it is generally irrelevant (subject to some exceptions) - it is not that they necessarily cannot consent; but that a claim of consent itself can not be used as a defence to relevant charges.

Not a huge difference in practice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119337151#Comment_119337151

Strange one. Most of the time it's easy to tell when someone is an underage teenager.

batman_oh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119337292#Comment_119337292

Lol at this - amazing!

Jequ0n

Seriously…”defilement”?

Its not like teenagers can’t think for themselves before they make a decision.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119337455#Comment_119337455

Undoubtedly trolling, but who would thank that post?! 🤨

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338664#Comment_119338664

“those girls”. Indeed. I get the feeling that Ham Sandwich doesn’t really believe what happened to “those girls” was actually abuse. Or that the poor Asian men weren’t…enticed by the same girls.

Everybody knows that only white catholic priests are paedophiles.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338673#Comment_119338673

Yes, defilement. It literally means having sex with a child under the age of consent.

Seriously your attitudes towards sex and women/girls should be raising alarm bells. Very creepy stuff that you're trying to downplay this.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338586#Comment_119338586

16 was the age of consent. I think it was still the same crime at the time, but the penalties weren't as harsh. Public opinion wouldn't have been as outraged at the time as it is now.

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338495#Comment_119338495

There are cases where the parents consented on their kids behalf , definitely with Steven Tyler possibly led zep

Ash.J.Williams

Another thing that has completely dated is white musicians who are totally onside with black people and write about their struggles and at that time felt it was ok to use racial terms , Pattie smith and elvis Costello are self cancelling nowadays, some white musicians who were downtrodden were even aligning their struggle with black people which one absolutely cannot do now

Ash.J.Williams

Neil hamburger (anti comic legend:)) dropped this lovely one at a mr bungle gig during lock down

knock knock

who’s there ?

Luke

luke who ?

luke up “Steven Tyler statutory rape on the internet, it’s very interesting, no seriously look it up it’s unreal “ 😂😂😂😂😂😂

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119337467#Comment_119337467

Think that was rolling stone Bill Wyman?

Bill Wyman met Mandy Smith when she was 13, and their relationship started shortly after (I mean... he was 47 - it's very disturbing).

Elvis met Priscilla when she was 14 and he was 24/25. Unclear when their relationship started, but far from ideal either.

riclad

I find it strange when there's 21 year old men who have a girlfriend who is age 16, the point is a person under sixteen cannot give legal consent to any kind of sexual relationship

Also are there men going around looking for girls who are 15 and a half just waiting till the girl is 16 before they go out with them

It's very common in showbusiness theres loads of young female fans who are happy to talk to anyone that's famous or a celeb

I think with the rise of twiitter social media me too, its all come out the no of young women who where being preyed upon or being sexually harassed of course life was totally different in the 80s 90s there was very little discussion of these subjects

If you google it There's plenty of actors celebs who met their future wives when they were 16. I'm not saying it's a good thing

Its a cliche on tik Tok and other media white singers dancers using black created songs art dances to get views

Ash.J.Williams

Ode to defilement by rod

Stay away from my window

Stay away from my back door, too

Disconnect the telephone line

Relax baby and draw that blind

Kick off your shoes and sit right down

Loosen off that pretty French gown

Let me pour you a good long drink

Ooh baby don't you hesitate 'cause

Tonight's the night

It's gonna be alright

'Cause I love you girl

Ain't nobody gonna stop us now

Come on angel my hearts on fire

Don't deny your man's desire

You'd be a fool to stop this tide

Spread your wings and let me come inside, 'cause

Tonight's the night

It's gonna be alright

'Cause I love you girl

Ain't nobody gonna stop us now

Don't say a word my virgin child

Just let your inhibitions run wild

The secret is about to unfold

Upstairs before the night's too old

Tonight's the night

It's gonna be alright

'Cause I love you girl

Ain't nobody gonna stop us now

Mon Dieu, qu'est-ce qu'il va devenir?

Mon amour viens, putain, embrasse-moi

Oh, je t'adore beaucoup

Ça veut rien donner

Ah oui, c'est pénible, hein?

Oh, je t'aime, je t'aime, je t'aime beacoup

Et cette nuit, oh...

Ah, cette nuit, oh...

Ash.J.Williams

Iggy Bowie, thunders and page all seem to have the same underage girl in common

Ash.J.Williams

Ted

I've got no inhibitions

So keep your keys out of your ignition

I steal a car like I got the curse

I can't resist the old lady's purse

Jailbait you look so good to me

Jailbait won't you set me free

Jailbait you look fine fine fine

I know I've got to have you in a matter of time

Well I don't care if you're just thirteen

You look too good to be true

I just know that you're probably clean

There's one lil' thing I got do to you

Jailbait you look so good to me

Jailbait won't you set me free

Jailbait you look fine fine fine

I know I've got to have you in a matter of time

So tell your mama that I'm back in town

She likes us boys when it's time to get down

She's got this craving for the underage

I just might be your mama's brand new rage

Jailbait you look so good to me

Jailbait won't you set me free

Jailbait you look fine fine fine

I know I got to have you in a matter of time

Honey you you you look so nice

She's young she's tender

Won't you please surrender

She's so fine she's mine

All the time, all mine mine

It's all right baby

It's quite all right I asked your mama

Wait a minute officer

Don't put those handcuffs on me

Put them on her and I'll share her with you

dorothylives

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338879#Comment_119338879

I wasn't trolling. That's my opinion, nobody has to agree with that opinion. Shame my post was reported though.

antfin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119339629#Comment_119339629

Can I just clarify that, although this thread is about the UK attitudes, the age of sexual consent in Ireland is 17. Just so that it's clear.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119339775#Comment_119339775

Why would I be accusing you of trolling? All you said was "I really hope that you're trolling. Otherwise you're either lying or extremely misinformed" in response to someone who falsely stated that those child sex abuse rings were debunked (you'd think that they and their thankers might show a little empathy towards the victims). That's the comment I suspected of being trolling, not yours. No idea how yours could be deemed worthy of reporting.

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119337925#Comment_119337925

I know you're not condoning it but it already was illegal in the 1970s. Why would the lack of entertainers under 25 cause people to turn a blind eye to the defilement? Being in favour of 'free love' didn't necessarily mean being in favour of letting men have sex with under-age girls.

Butson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119337935#Comment_119337935

In Rochdale, which is the most infamous of all the towns where this has happened. In one instance one of the parents of a girl found out where she had been taken. Her and her friend were in a house with 6 or 7 "Asian" men. The Dad was banging and kicking down the door. A neighbour contacted the police over the racket and when they came, he told them what was happening. The police, instead of checking inside the house, arrested the Dad for breaching the peace. This was recounted in court and was also reported by the Times of London.

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119341050#Comment_119341050

What was the outcome of the court case? Surely, a judge wouldn't turn a blind eye to what was done to the girl.

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338673#Comment_119338673

That's the term used in Irish law.

Butson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119341060#Comment_119341060

Sure it was part of an overall massive court case against the men and also the police and social services. This was going on for years, but police were afraid to touch the subject over fears of racism. Sarah Champion, a very liberal Labour MP for the area, lost the party whip after she said there was a specific problem with men of Pakistanti heritage (a certain part of Pakistan it must be added for fairness) targeting white girls.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/sara-rowbotham-sarah-champion_uk_59bbad52e4b02da0e14106d5

They would ply them with drink and drugs and well.....I don't need to go into detail.

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119339629#Comment_119339629

Just to clarify for the benefit of some readers - the age of consent in the Republic of Ireland is 17.

batman_oh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119340988#Comment_119340988

I see the post has been deleted too - completely. Didn't think that was possible on the new site? The thankers were quite predictable really - they saw the word racism and jumped in

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119341092#Comment_119341092

Would the police's attitude to the crime have been any different if the white girls had been defiled by gangs of white men instead? After all, misogyny is still a common problem among policemen in England, e.g. the murder of Sarah Everard by a policeman and the Whatsapp texts that were revealed in the aftermath.

By the way, Sarah Champion wasn't removed from Labour's parliamentary party at Westminster - she resigned from Labour's front bench - twice!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Champion

Butson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119341135#Comment_119341135

I think you should research the topic a bit.

In short, yes it would have been different. This was going on for years, across multiple towns in the north of England. There have been court cases, documentaries, books...Also, there was a race element to this. Not to be repeated here as its disgusting.

Do white men abuse girls? Of course they do. Is it organised on an industrial scale across multiple locations by a group who make up a small percentage of the UK population? No.

Sometimes the truth is inconvenient.

Snickers Man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119339749#Comment_119339749

Ah come on now! That's America's own Ted Nugent. You can't blame that idiot on the English.

And, I'm sure I asked this once before to complete tumbleweed response but is there ANYONE here on this (European) side of the Atlantic who has EVER owned a Ted Nugent album? I certainly haven't, but that's because I really love good guitar playing. And Nugent is a cat-swinger.

Snickers Man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338336#Comment_119338336

Yes. But surely there is mitigation in the fact that the 18 year old he married (at the age of 54) stayed married to him for the rest of his life? 30 odd years.

Yeah, Oona seemed very happy with Charles, but she lost contact with her dad, writer Eugene O'Neill (his reaction was understandable in fairness).

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119339117#Comment_119339117

This.

People, today, judging what happened before many of them were even born, never mind sentient, are barking up a tree they have no idea about. Before the 80's, 16 was considered to be a young adult. It's only quite recently that 16 was turned into a "child".

The late 70's and through the 80's and 90's saw numerous societal changes as to what constituted an adult, to the point where today we don't really reach adulthood until we're in our 20's. Back then, however, most people considered you an "adult" when you left school and got a job, and for a huge number of folk that was at 16, especially if you were of a working class background. It wasn't uncommon at all to be married at 16 or 17 years of age and to have knocked out a kid at 18.

For generations and up until the latter part of the 1970's, that was the norm for a lot of people, while today we view it as something that probably shouldn't happen. My own parents left school at 16 and from that point they weren't considered "children" any more. My dad went to Liverpool and joined the army. My mother went and worked in a shop. They were married and had their first kid by 18 and all of that was considered perfectly normal for most of the 20th Century.

Now, of course, none of the above is to be viewed as some sort of excuse for predatory behaviour by reprehensible characters. But when we are talking about those times it's always important to consider what were the norms of society in the period in question, and to not view things through the prism of what we consider to be "correct" behaviour today.

These days we, generally, have a greater understanding of our growth and mental development and at what ages we reach certain points of that development. We understand today that at 16 years old we are still at a pretty delicate stage and that delicate stage can last until we're in our 20's. At 16 we are no longer children (16 is not a "child"), but we are not adults either and it's debatable as to what point we become "adults". There are plenty of people in their 20's who would still be harbouring the same immaturity they had in their teens and are just as susceptible to uninformed decision making.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119341297#Comment_119341297

Exactly. Most of this is social programming, and the encouragement to see teens as being children, but a hundred years ago things were far different. Teens were far more likely to be considered adults, and the social conditioning of the time prepared them for that role. In WW1 hundreds of thousands of young teens (14 year olds) fought in the war.. It was simply a different time, with different expectations regarding people.

Applying modern standards to the past simply shows how little that person understands the way things were.

Ash.J.Williams

In 1975 if you were a woman the same age as a pop/rock/tv star you were probably married with 5 kids