The cost of living crisis might be a good thing...

Andrewf20

I reckon with the whole climate change situation, having less money in peoples pockets will reduce consumption and therefore reduce emissions. Getting the cost of living under control is good in the short term but potentially diabolical in the long term if we have the money to pollute as we do. Having said that the housing / rental saga is a disaster here and in many places abroad.

I remember growing up in a poor area in 1980s Dublin and in a way we were happier then even though we had way less . We worked less & learned how to fix things and that brought a satisfaction in itself unlike today where conspicuous consumption brings short term happiness only, then debt and more stress with longer work hours. I think we were more social then too.

And I cant understand the hate of the government. The cost of living crisis is a complex issue in that I don’t think any western county has successfully tackled it.

Am I missing something? 

Ray Palmer

There are benefits and reduced consumption is on the list. When the big crash occurred my road went from every 2nd house having a 4x4 to only 2 houses out of about 80. This in suburban Dublin where these vehicles never saw a dirt road in their use. It always amazes me people are surprised about fuel prices rising like it has never happened before.

While your childhood memories of the 80s are fond you wouldn't really have been aware of the suffering others encountered as adults. I distinctly remember when in school the "buy Irish" groups would arrive at the schools. They would say when you leave the country remember to buy Irish because the belief was at least 50% of the class would leave Ireland to get jobs. Unemployment was 17% back then and interest rate of 16%.

Of the children who grew up on my street most of the group over 50 left the country to work and didn't come back. Those below 50 most stayed or returned.

Leg End Reject

Be careful what you wish for. When the Celtic Tiger stopped roaring the cost of living came down too - house prices plummeted, groceries and utilities were cheap. Inflation will keep prices high for a while at least, so some people will really struggle. I'd say anyone who bought a 4x4 or larger car that they don't actually need is already starting to regret it with the current fuel prices

Andrewf20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119336973#Comment_119336973

Yes, I suppose it was grim times for alot of people all right back then.

From what I can tell, the only way to get people to consume less is to make them poorer. But maybe its a good thing. If earning less means working less then its probably a better thing, certainly for the environment but also for peoples mental health I suspect.

Its as if peoples desire for consumption at some level makes us more miserable but we still do it anyway.

Thelonious Monk

Maybe the system needs to change from our whole raison d'etre being a consumer and for the goals of a government and its people are to have decent shelter for everyone, enough food, and some kind of opportunities and to be part of a community. Many of us now take things like going to restaurants and getting take away coffee and flying away on holidays for granted, and expect to be buying new stuff all the time. People were just as happy with far less in the past.

HerrKapitan

Good to see people are getting the idea of what is happening. That modern "emergencies" coincidently benefit the ideologies of big corporate and the likes of Bill Gates, EU, Russia and WEF. But its all coincidence.

lucalux

This is something I've been thinking about as the "cost of living crisis" has been reported on and spoken about a lot more recently.

I have lived most of my life in relative poverty but I still consider myself somewhat 'entitled' to luxuries, as a hangover from the media and society influences of my younger days (i'm mid-30's) but in the last few years I have reconsidered what I need.

Very reliant on my car. This irks me, but living rurally I've needed it to be fair.

I haven't gotten a haircut in 9 going on 10 years. Youtube helped me learn to cut it myself.

I haven't been on a holiday in more years than that, and i've never been on a sun holiday.

I buy secondhand clothes since forever. Secondhand furniture, electronics where possible.

One thing that has been bugging me recently though is, I don't have the skills to be as thrifty as I'd like.

I have a fair knowledge of DIY, but no good collection of tools.

I know the principles of sewing, but have no practise in it.

I've soldered and repaired some electrical items in the past, but no confidence in it.

There are no men's sheds for me as I'm a woman, and there are no fixit groups near me to access the physical tools.

It's made me think:

Where will we be if we end up back in a recession without the make-do-and-mend mentality of the past, or the proficiency to make our good intentions reality?

Sad I think.

More pissed off than the 'cut your cloth according to your measure' generation, for all their faults, they could do a lot more than most of the younger generations today.

It's no one's fault per sé, we were sold the pup that repairing, reusing and recycling wasn't ever going to be needed as we were a 'prosperous country' and those things were associated with poverty and dare I say it, shame.

Then we came full circle.

I fully agree that housing and quality of life are basics, and we're failing on that, so that's probably where we need to have security before a more secure foundation for changed behaviour can come into force.

Some will still see the status symbols of the car, postcode, etc as paramount, but that'll ever be the way imo

Andrewf20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119339261#Comment_119339261

Some good points there.

Something stuck with me about Christopher McCandless in into the wild. Heres a guy who lived an amazing time with almost nothing. We need to adapt our mindset towards his way of thinking. Of course you will never hear a politician mutter such ideas.

I think there's 3 types of happiness, none that require large swathes of material things. I think if you focus on a balance of these 3 you can have a very content life, all going well:

1. Quick easy happiness with no major expense / hardship - a bounty bar, a movie night, a meet up with friends
2. Altruism - volunteering, cutting your elderly neighbours grass
3. Pursuit of a hard physical or mental goal - Getting you PHD, restoring a classic car, climbing a big mountain, doing a triathlon, DIY patio project.

Reading about the hedonic threadmill (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill), its bizarre how people dont to reign in there spending more.

bb12

people are going to die this winter because of the cost of fuel and heating and lighting their homes...whether it will be old people who will scrimp on fuel to try and make their pensions stretch as much as possible or other people from carbon monoxide poisoning as they try to heat their homes with alternative methods or others who will accidentally burn their houses down...but that's ok cos it's just collateral damage to save the climate right?

bad2thebone

Luckily I've an average industrial wage and no mortgage rent I have my own place no family to look after, my partner has her own house too, used to eat out a lot but cut down on the dining out.

Living on the basics, can catch a trout down the river any evening I want but I usually catch and release. The ocean is bountiful, there's a lot of bass and Pollock around at the moment. And turbot and flounder's and plaice are easy to catch from the beach. If it came down to brass tacks, I'd be able to sustain myself.

Pike aren't nice to eat by itself, but add herbs and spices and it's as nice as any fish.

In a way sometimes it's good to challenge one's self when money is an issue. Barter fish for vegetables or egg's.

It's doable and there's hardships of course. But sometimes having a survival skill is useful.

It's probably not cool living like grizzly Adams, but there's plenty of people who are adaptable, and back in the 80's and before poorer rural people living by the coast were never hungry .

lucalux

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119339367#Comment_119339367

Reduced consumption, not life-threatening consumption, I think that's where OP was headed.

Fuel poverty is real, and dangerous, doesn't just affect the old. No one has said that is okay.

Reduced consumerism in general, reduced disposablility in society as a whole, and reduced expectations in terms of 'next day delivery' lifestyle, or what objective luxuries we need to afford on our wages, might not be the worst thing.

lucalux

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119339335#Comment_119339335

Thanks,

I don't know much about Christopher McCandless except that I remember he was eventually poisoned by toxic mushrooms, and while I admire the impetus to go live 'in the wild' I think the idea that he lived an 'amazing time' might be a little overstated, going off my own experiences of camping/wild living! Simpler, yes, survival based, yes, amazing? perhaps not (notwithstanding any trips he may have had!)

Regardless, I think the reason we are so trapped on the hedonistic treadmill, imho, is that we are still working to an industrial revolution time scale, and we are so so deeply unhappy and unfulfilled as human beings.

We have never had so much technology to make life simpler, and have never needed to work so hard (mentally I mean) to maintain homeostasis in what society deems acceptable.

A four day week would be the minimum action I would see as appropriate to readjust modern life to a more appropriate balance of living and working.

We can only afford to be altruistic (imo) when we have reserves of emotional and physical security and pursuit of other physical goals can be piling expectation on top of exhaustion in some cases.

Even meeting with friends can be an exercise in caution where some are earning more than others, a lot of people have to avoid those social outings due to the cost involved.

We are capable of living better lives, society constrains us in so many ways when we are led to believe that a life revolves around spending money to even socialise

Ramasun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119339335#Comment_119339335

Chris McCandless starved to death, alone in the middle of nowhere because he didn't plan ahead to take care of his essential needs. I think I get what you're trying to say but he's a terrible example.

Andrewf20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119339367#Comment_119339367

Yes, and its unfortunate and I hope there will be social support for elderly people at risk. But people are and will continue to die from climate change via heat stroke, forest fires etc.

Andrewf20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119339467#Comment_119339467

Agreed but I couldnt think of anyone else. His mindset was onto something. He was just way out of his depth when it came to some of the practical's.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058254463/the-cost-of-living-crisis-might-be-a-good-thing

it’s just a pity that those on fixed incomes such as pensions, people on disability and low incomes will be disproportionately impacted… pretty much like the 80s.

I remember 80s very well, I did the leaving certificate in the 80s. I remember the hopeless of knowing that there was no jobs… the delight of getting an apprenticeship only to be told by your parents that they could no afford to cover the extra costs, the joy of getting a good leave cert only to not get a county council or VEC grant to get college, the grant of 333 pounds and the realization that it would only cover the books and about six weeks of expenses…. The sadness of seeing all your school friends leaving and knowing that even if you and your family did manage to get you through college it was only a postponement of your own exit…

Unless you came from a rich background, you have your parents to thank if you think the 80s were a good thing because they must have made a lot of sacrifices to shield you from the reality of the 80s!

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119339367#Comment_119339367

It always amusing how some people manage to turn every thread into a view about their own little hobby horse! There are a few more significant events in the world impacting the situation but of course they all get brushed aside for the hobby horse. We have a lot of serious problems to solve and clearly your hobby horse will not be part of the solution.

whisky_galore

Yes and no. People will opt for cheaper and grey/black market options for heating etc which aren't always cleaner options.

'Green' in many cases costs huge money which people don't have.

Many things manufactured these days aren't intended by their makers to be fixed for obvious reasons.

Andrewf20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119339683#Comment_119339683

I think as a kid I was shielded in some way but I still got a sense that people weren't too unhappy. I came from a fairly poor background in working class Dublin but at least we had enough money for the essentials. But holidays didnt happen and the cars were usually rust buckets. I remember mould on the walls in the box room and rotten wooden windows, books prop'ing up broken legs of the bed. I suppose we didnt know any different and I was happy enough as a kid. Expectations were lower.

Today feels different. Wealth is there in society but also massive stresses and exhausting schedules if both parents out working who have kids. Money has fixed some problems but created others.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119340826#Comment_119340826

It is more to do with the visible disparity. There were less signs of others being overtly more wealthy back in the 80s. People were also in communities where most people were in similar financial situations. Due to the massive changes in property prices there now a lot of people with massively different income levels close to each other. You can now have a family still renting the corporation house beside somebody who bought the neighbouring property from the original owner and is a professional earning way more.

The late 90s were very odd for shows of wealth. Lot of people in poorer areas got and bought fancy cars and huge TVs as they were used to borrowing as their parents did but this was large amounts of money as opposed to living expenses and necessity. Many people used to rent TVs in the 80s so paying a loan for a TV wasn't strange to them.

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338042#Comment_119338042

They said that in 2008 as well. They continued to close train lines in the mean time and built new motorways because "ah shur everyone has cars now".

In many ways we never recovered from 2008.

riclad

Yes it.ll be good if people travelled less, maybe take holidays at home, buy more secondhand goods, maybe grow some vegatables at home. People used to actually rent tvs. A 50 inch TV is hardly a luxury nowadays. People used to drive cars for 10 years, then they started buying suvs . We went from one extreme to another. I think gen z have to be careful with money as they are paying high rents. We are still recovering from 2008, due to the sudden stop in house building it would be good if more people starred cycling as fuel prices rise.

patnor1011

What is coming is not just mere inconvenience like being forced to skip one holiday or cut on takeaway coffee, restaurants or cinema. Funnily enough plenty of people still think so. And talking that this is the price we have to pay "because climate change" is utterly ridiculous.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119339872#Comment_119339872

Many are deliberately designed and made so they can't be fixed, or the costs of doing so means it works out "cheaper" to buy new and throw the old in the bin.

Dempo1

Interesting Question OP but I'd lean towards no, it's not a good thing as the negatives far out way the positives.

I note some commentators "Mostly folks living in cuckoo land", who've never saw a hard day in their lives, say we got used to things being so cheap. I beg to differ. Granted interest rates were low but there was a reason for that, many would wish to forget.

But just at a very practical level how many folks are effected with this current cost of living crisis on a weekly basis.

I'm 55, live alone, Rural Ireland, originally from Dublin, small mortgage, reduced income due to illness but was fine.

Firstly we get a monthly Inflation number and yet, without exception, every supermarket seems to have their own unique inflation numbers, weekly . I've checked and literally, weekly for the past 3 months prices on numerous items have gone up and not by 5 or 10 cent, in many cases up to 30, 40 and 50 cents, Aldi gets special mention as I shop there more regularly, prices increasing weekly.

Fuel, whilst in one respect I'm fortunate I don't drive much, I'm very rural and have a distance to nearest town. My weekly fuel costs have doubled, I shudder to think what folks driving long distance to work and more generally are facing. Let's leave EV aside, but even they must be more costly to run.

Utilities. I'm not a big user of Electricity and my usage so low, Bonker.ie laughed at me when I looked at changing provider before the crisis, I paid more in levies than of actual electricity. But now and its summer, my bills certainly up 50%.

I use Oil and Turf for heating, After Eamonn Ryan's comments last March, Turf prices Jumped, I don't have Tarbury rights, Thanks Eamonn. Oil I use as back up, literally 2.5 times the price it was in 2020. And before the lecture on Retro fitting etc, my humble abode is 200 years old, substantially renovated already, a 2 year waiting list to even get a quote for retrofit and even with grant, I'd need to remortgage, that Ain't happening.

So I come at this as a single person, but of course I'm fortunate with a low mortgage but what about young families, Childcare, School, clothing, big mortgages etc, I honestly don't know how they are coping and as for those paying exorbitant rents, I wouldn't know were to start.

It's the cruel nature of this particular cost of living crisis, it affects the majority, those working, those on very low or fixed incomes and literally it seems costs rising weekly and dare I say some astonishing gouging go on also.

So no its not a good thing it's actually Terrible, I've experienced real hardship throughout my life, but over came those hardships , this particular crisis is something very new, very different and very worrying and the Ukrainian crisis only part to blame, this started months before that even started.

To be honest, this thread reads to me like "I had it tough in the 80s and I hate seeing people do x, y, z so I wish they they had less and couldn't do those things."

We could be in for a huge recession that will have horrible impacts on a huge number of people.

The last thing we should be doing is celebrating because the neighbours can't go on holidays.

eusap

The cost of living crisis might stop some of the madness, Paying 50k for an EV that a similar size ICE was 20k is not going to end well, add into that the amount of Tesla costing 70k+ they will be the new SUV in the next recession, taken back by the HP companies...

My local coffee place put up coffee by 50c, when asked why they said milk has got more expensive, there is hardly 50c of milk in the whole drink. The real answer was everything else is going up so we have too increase prices so we can Live. This is creating a pyramid, if everybody keeps increasing there prices to keep there standard of living then it will all come crashing down.

babyducklings1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119362376#Comment_119362376

It’s just price gouging it really is a big thing here. Good on you for asking why the increase in coffee most people wouldn’t bother and therein probably lies the problem. They know they’ll get away with it so just do it anyway. Guaranteed other nationalities aren’t as roll over as we are probably one factor in why it’s so expensive here .

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119362190#Comment_119362190

IF gen z can actually find an affordable place to rent!

KaneToad

During the last crisis a deal was almost brokered by govt for Public Sector to have pay substantially reduced and also working hours substantially reduced.

But the govt changed its mind.

I think it's a big pity they didn't follow through. It would have laid down a marker for working less as a society. The biggest con is that we all still consider the 5 day week as normal.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119362249#Comment_119362249

The thing is that is all it will be to some. I don;t think anybody thinks what is coming is caused by climate change. Pretty sure it is a hangover from the pandemic, canal blockage and the current invasion of Ukraine. Most people think that and not climate change which is cause for concern but many like to completely deny it is an issue