Evasive and Dishonest flat whites

One of my pet hates in recent years is the ubiquitousness of diluted (low-fat / fat-free) milk. In many places it’s assumed you want the latter and you’re a pain in the back-side if you insist on the former.

With the arrival of flat whites I though my worries were over. Here, finally, was a coffee that had to be made with full-fat milk. Or so you would think... I stopped just outside Limerick a couple of weeks ago at a (so-called) “Frank and Honest” and ordered a flat white. And what do I see see ? Only yer one, the “barista”, reaching for a 2-litre of milk with a green label to put in the steamer. “Not so fast, little lady,” I said, “A flat white is meant to be made with full-fat milk, is it not ?”. “Well our machines only take low-fat”. She looked at me as if I was the one with the problem; and not the person who had trained to make coffee for a living and then just decides to throw whatever grabs her fancy into a coffee.

Any similar experiences ? Does anyone know how long “Frank and Honest” have been carrying out this fraud ?

Krusty_Clown

I always make my flat whites with whole milk, but I don't see why it has to be whole milk? What makes it a flat white is the ratio of espresso to milk, and the texture of the milk, so if these 'Frank and Honest' baristas can achieve that with a low fat milk, I can't see why it doesn't meet the definition.

Now if you ask for whole milk, and they can't provide it, that's bad form. Are they using a proper espresso machine, or is it some semi-automatic coffee machine? That's the only reason I can think of that would prevent them from using full fat milk. And if it's an automatic/semi-automatic machine, I'd be going somewhere that can make a decent cup of coffee.

L1011

I've never seen a generic chain coffee shop have anything other than some form of skimmed milk. Some have semi skimmed and skimmed; but whole seems to be impossible to find.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119324347#Comment_119324347

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119324355#Comment_119324355

Flat whites are traditionally made with full-fat or “whole” milk. I used to ask cafés to use whole milk when I first started ordering them and they would say “Of course” or “Flat whites are always made with whole milk,” so I stopped asking.

Wrt the machine I don’t know what the problem was.

https://athome.starbucks.com/recipe/flat-white

Krusty_Clown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119325473#Comment_119325473

Was it an automatic machine, or was she frothing the milk by hand, from a jug?

Starbucks make their flat white with whole milk by default, but of course they offer the option of many other types of milk if someone prefers.

I am also not a fan of low fat milk in my coffees.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119325761#Comment_119325761

I’m not too clear. She didn’t get as far as making the actual coffee. I just saw her bringing the green-labelled milk over and I was like wtf ? I asked her about the milk and she mentioned the machine...

Allinall

"Little lady"?

I would have told you to scram there and then, and moved on to the next customer.

the beer revolu

Not so fast, little lady,” I said, “A flat white is meant to be made with full-fat milk, is it not ?”. 

I can imagine the conversation after you left; "a really helpful and pleasant man just kindly educated me on how to make a proper flat white, I'll be forever grateful!", or something like that!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119328346#Comment_119328346

That’s what I would have thought too… You know the old Socratic idea of delighting in being proven wrong because it frees you of your own ignorance…

It might be paranoia on my behalf but I could swear she gave me a look of derision - and not gratitude - as I stopped her from defiling yet another flat white.

ablelocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119333690#Comment_119333690

if you actually said the words "little lady", that would account for the derision.

Global pandemics, war, inflation, potential recession...

This thread gave me a good laugh. Probably not the intention but still.

Sounds like you needed a sarsaparilla, partner.

the beer revolu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338485#Comment_119338485

Quite often when we recount dialogue that we had with someone, the actual words aren't very accurate. We tend to report how we might like to have said it or some other variation of what was actually said.

I suspect that the op, didn't actually use those words but, rather, added them in after the fact in the belief that it made them seem edgy and stuff!

the beer revolu

Also, what's so special about a flat white? Surely all milky coffees should be made with full fat milk unless otherwise requested?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119339938#Comment_119339938

It was actually poetic license more than anything else. I’m not sure in what world “little lady” would count as edgy. Maybe a 1950’s western…

the beer revolu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119341830#Comment_119341830

I was being polite,really. Edgy, in the sense that you appear to be trying to give the impression that you don't care whether you come across as a complete arse or not.

Thelonious Monk

They are delicious and creamy made from oat milk, worth a try

Duke of Schomberg

If you look on the Frank & Honest website you'll discover that F&H produce "barista-style" coffee using the Eversys bean-to-cup machine that grinds, tamps, brews, adds frothed milk, and dispenses "at the touch of a button" - they may well not be able to handle full-fat milk, and I presume F&H won't train their staff up as baristas, so their staff might not be coffee experts.

Krusty_Clown

The dream:

The reality:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119342354#Comment_119342354

I wrote to them about it and no word back, so no idea what the story is…. Too busy counting their ill-earned gains I imagine.

lg123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058254056/evasive-and-dishonest-flat-whites

Were you really expecting any better from a chain like this?

Bot1

Is this to do with the protein content of the milk and the lack of milk foam/texture that you get with full-fat milk sometimes (think it varies between winter and summer) depending on what the cattle are fed.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119765923#Comment_119765923

I think it’s just a cultural thing. Low-fat milk is superficially thought to be “healthier” than normal milk and has become more and more popular by cafés even though it doesn’t taste as good. I think there’s an idea that if you give a fatty a normal milk they will be upset because they’re “trying to lose weight”. Whereas a normal milk drinker won’t care or notice if you slip in an insipid “low-fat”.

the beer revolu

I still don't understand what is particular about a flat white over any other milky coffee, in this regard.

Surely, any milky coffee should be made with full fat milk, unless otherwise requested.