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lamb dose not working one one lamb

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  • 11-07-2022 1:13pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 847 ✭✭✭


    I have tried two different types of dose on a lamb and their still not working (dose for worms) . would it work if i try another? would moving it to another bit of land make a difference?



Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,088 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    What doses have you used, how do you kanow the doses aren't working ... did you test the lambs for worms,



  • Registered Users Posts: 847 ✭✭✭duffysfarm


    Will post up the names of the two doses later. havent tested the lambs for worms, its just that this one is still very dirty behind, hasnt cleared up



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,088 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Dirty tails doesn't alwys mean they have worms, we'd often test a dirty lamb on it's own and there'd be no worms



  • Registered Users Posts: 847 ✭✭✭duffysfarm


    OK, WILL LOOK INTO IT. WHO WOUDL YOU TEST WITH?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,088 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    We test our own here,

    There's three types of wormers, a white dose, a yellow dose and a clear dose, which ones have you used already

    whichever of those you have used, try a different one, If a white dose doesn't work there's no point in going with any white dose even from a different maker if you know what I mean. all white doses have the same active ingredient



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  • Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭Country lad


    might not need a dose at all as had a lamb here one time that always had a dirty behind just give lamb a good dagging



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,900 ✭✭✭farawaygrass


    Dosed my lambs a couple of weeks ago. I put them into a rich field of grass and some got very dirty. Didn’t know was it dose not working, the new grass or a combination of both. Took a pool sample and it came up clean as a whistle for words thankfully.

    I also had one lamb that I had isolated as he wasn’t doing. I took a sample from just him. He wasn’t dirty at all, was passing balls of dung, and he showed up with worms.

    judging dirty back ends isn’t the best way to judge after that



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,088 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    We're FEC testing for a farmer at the moment where none of the doses are working except zolvix.

    Problem is there's very little zolvix to be got anywhere.

    Where's his future now



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,900 ✭✭✭farawaygrass


    What are his options there? Would ploughing the farm for a year and getting in new sheep help at all?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,088 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    There really is no options sheep wise,

    We're going to try to workout a sheepdosing regime for him using zolvix once in the season when the lambs are young andhope when they build immunity to worms as they get older that the yellow dose will be enough in the next dose . Cydectin is next to useless on the farm

    On to typhon then, very little challenge from worms in typhon



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,900 ✭✭✭farawaygrass


    that’s some headache. I think I heard them say at the Athenry open day that there is research coming from nz showing if a dose hasn’t been used for a good few years if can start to become effective again. Was only a small glimmer of hope they were saying



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,088 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    It's very serious for those affected, everyone should be quarantine dosing now just in case



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭Dinzee Conlee


    What would you quarantine dose with what wrangler?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,088 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    We give zolvix and yellow dose to all bought in sheep, put them in a shed then for 48hs

    We put the dungs on the veggy garden then as you cant put it out on pasture

    Yellow and clear dose still working 100% here



  • Registered Users Posts: 227 ✭✭clonagh


    Where do you get your Zolvix Wrangler? Think you're a fellow midlands man...



  • Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭Jimbo789


    Do you see any differences in the tests between lambs on multi species or PRG?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,088 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    We don't get any tests from multi species.

    An interesting fact,..... dung beetles reduce worm infestation on land but cydectin/ivomec kills the dung beetles when they eat dung from treated sheep.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,088 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Donal Lynch, but it's scarce at the moment, we were sixmths waiting for 500 ml.

    I think it was €130, it'd do about 200 25kg lambs so expensive

    all the more reason to be careful to avoid resistant worms



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,900 ✭✭✭farawaygrass


    Doesn’t Clik kill that beetle too, or if not it kills something similar



  • Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭drive it


    They say there's never a stupid question so here goes, when you dose sheep does the dose not kill the the worms so meaning your breaking the cycle or is it that the sheep's immune system doesn't work with the dose causing it to not work if used to often



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,088 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Worms get immune to the dose

    Then when you dose sheep, the dose kills all the worms that aren't immune and the sheep puts out on the pasture 100% live worms that are immune to the dose so gradually the only worms on the land are the worms that are resistant to the dose



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,776 ✭✭✭paddysdream


    Thats the reasoning behind not dosing strongest 10% or so of lambs (apart from nematodirus ) each time as they will then put out both immune and susceptible worms if not dosed .The worms when they breed are then made up of both types so you are not building up a resevoir of totally immune worms .

    Both yellow and white still working here (from FEC results ) but ivermectin has a poorer effect with no residual action at all .



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,088 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Its difficult to convince farmers not to dose 10% of the flock though



  • Registered Users Posts: 449 ✭✭joe35


    Going dosing lambs today. Done a FEC on the 11 of August. Only got it back Friday.

    Results came in 315 which was moderate. But that was over 2 weeks ago.

    Lambs aren't thriving so might dose and leave 10% not dosed. Think that's a good idea not dosing all lambs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,088 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Very disappointing to have to wait a fortnight for a result, was it for sheep welfare scheme, we sent away a sample for the sheep welfare scheme ten days ago and haven't the result yet .

    Out side of the sheep welfare FECs the results come back in a couple days.

    Test itself only takes about half an hour



  • Registered Users Posts: 449 ✭✭joe35


    It was the local co op. They send to head office and normally get results the next day or 2.

    Don't know why it was so slow this time.


    Doesed 200 odd lambs today. Probably give only cobalt to 40 or so.


    I marked them red on the head so should see if they thrive as good as the rest



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,975 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    I won't argue with recent research but when I last looked into this the improvement was temporary, too temporary to be of any real benefit. It looks like once the resistance genes are established they remain in the species. Once they become useful again that subgroup that has them becomes dominant again.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,975 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    The SCOPS (sustainable control of parasites in sheep) manual can be found here. It gives a good background and explanation of Anthelmintic Resistance.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



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