House gone sale agreed, highest bidder not alerted

Ficus Jam

Rural-ish house has been on market for roughly 3 weeks. Huge interest in house (fairly unique property, decent price, in good area, not many come available around here). I attended a viewing, and liked what I saw. Spoke with agent, who informed me current bid was now 13k above listed price.

Put my bid in via email, 1k above current bid, to offer to 149k (I've changed the exact number a bit for anonymity). Didn't hear back, though I've come to expect agents to be slow to respond in this seller's market. Followed up about 30 hours later to check. Agent comes back 6 hours later: 'sorry, meant to respond to your email but it slipped my mind. There's a new offer of €150k on property'.

I respond an hour later, increasing my offer by another 1k (151k). Hear nothing again, but clearly responding to emails is not this agent's strong suit. Fine.

I attend another viewing of the property on Friday. Overhear agent telling other viewers that the current bid is 150k. I ask her if she had received my email earlier that week offering 151k. Agent looks at phone, comes back and says 'oh yeah, got the email, but forgot about it. Shivers, sorry.'

I'm annoyed, but as long as it's now agreed I have the highest bid, I'm not going to get all het up. (Though I make a note to never ever sell through this useless agent.) Agent says she's looking to get things finalised by Monday (today). Before I left the viewing, I asked her to keep me informed either way the bidding goes. She says she will.

I'm the highest bidder to my knowledge, so I assume if another bid comes in, there'd be a check with me first to increase my bid before finalising with this other bidder. It's a decent bit of land, so I'm fully prepared to be outbid and have to increase my offer again.

Check the listing yesterday, and see it's now listed as 'sale agreed'. I've emailed the agent last night to ask what's going on, and haven't heard anything.

Is this normal? This is my first home purchase in Ireland, but surely even in the Wild West that is the housing market in Ireland, the highest bidder receives formal notification of bid acceptance by the vendor pretty quickly? Agent knows I am a cash buyer and chain free so can close quickly, and even has the details of my conveyancer ready. I can't think how another buyer might be more attractive. I'd expect the agent would want to get the deposit from me asap, but I've heard nothing.

How long do I wait for an answer before going in with all guns blazing? I'd like to know what is going on with this agent who apparently isn't interested in higher bids, and goes sale agreed with so little notification. Feeling a bit aggro with all of this jerking around.

whippet

could be plenty of reasons. In reality the vendor can sell to whom ever they like and the EA should be working under instruction from them.

Just because you have put in the highest bid at that time does not mean that you were the highest bidder. The fact that you are chipping in at €1k intervals - good chance the other bidder offered an extra €10k and said offer only stands if you accept it now - as in pointless in doing the over and back for €1k increments.

LunaLoo

It could be the other bidder was a cash offer that the sellers were happy to accept.

When we had ours for sale we had 2 people bidding 1 was first time buyers ready to go 2 was people who had to sell their house to buy so even though #2 had higher bid we went with #1 to avoid chain.

Baybay

I’d also suggest phoning the agent rather than relying on communicating through email, especially if things are moving quickly.

BronsonTB

Yep, plenty of reasons & is normal enough in the housing market. The EA works for the seller not the buyer. Highest bid really means nothing until contracts are signed.

Ficus Jam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119320730#Comment_119320730

Fair call. Unfortunate for me, but that's the nature of the beast.

Kat1170

Just because it's Sale Agreed nothing to stop you putting in another offer to the agent. Nothing final until Sold.

SteM

Should have been phoning them with offers and then following up by email imo, then you'd be sure everyone is on the same page. I was certainly on the phone to EAs a lot when we were buying.

Ficus Jam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119320817#Comment_119320817

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119320756#Comment_119320756

Quite, but this agent asked me to communicate with her via email - she has kids and is often at viewings, so phone calls aren't convenient for her.

Ficus Jam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119320755#Comment_119320755

Agreed this would a reasonable assumption, however 'Agent knows I am a cash buyer and chain free so can close quickly, and even has the details of my conveyancer ready. I can't think how another buyer might be more attractive'.

Logical answer, as suggested upthread, is another bidder offered a significantly increased amount with a take it or leave it condition. Agents are after the most money with the least amount of effort, so I presume every action of theirs is would be based on this premise.

SteM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119320841#Comment_119320841

if phone calls aren't convenient for her and she's not checking her emails then she's in the wrong business tbh.

Xterminator

Hi.

i always say know your rights. there is a code of practice for estate agents managed by the PSRA

Principles of the Code of Practice

1.Act Professionally

2.Honesty

3.Integrity

4 Confidentiality

5 Effective and Open Communication

6 Professional Development

So if the agents does come back to you and tells you what the decision was based on - then you have no grounds for complaint. There is nothing in your situation that indicates the agent was doing anything wrong, yet.

if they blanked you or refused to engage then you could make a complaint based on point 5. It will not get you the house, but if an agent falls short of the conduct expected you should report them.

Ficus Jam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119320873#Comment_119320873

Agree completely. I won't be bothering with any of her properties in the future.

Dodge

Sounds like a poor agent but there’s not much you can do about that.

Vendor can choose to sell it to whoever then want, doesn’t have to be the highest bidder. Going in “all guns blazing” won’t change much IMO. If the vendor is happy, the best you’ll get from the agent is an apology, and I’ve a feeling that won’t help you much

Ficus Jam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119320877#Comment_119320877

I wouldn't think it likely that the agent would admit to improper behaviour, which is why I came here to see if there was a logical explanation for the outcome.

I'd suggest this agent is on the lower end of diligence (and that bar is low), and in a buyer's market would struggle, but this is a seller's market. Barring outright illegal behaviour, there's nothing to be done.

JeffKenna

I dunno, I would have always thought an agent had to revert to you if you're the highest bidder to give you a chance to come back again. I mean that's what the whole concept of bidding is surely.

Fair enough if there's some other reason they want to take the other bid but at least communicate that to you.

Ficus Jam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119320794#Comment_119320794

I suspect I'd have to resort to carrier pigeon to actually get my bid communicated. This is good advice, and with a better agent, I'd definitely consider it. I'll keep it in mind as I continue looking. Thank you.

Ficus Jam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119320932#Comment_119320932

This is my experience too - I've been outbid for precisely this reason, because the other bidder had a chance to beat my offer. The other offer must've been too good to pass up.

JeffKenna

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119320980#Comment_119320980

Yeah who knows, maybe cash or something. Might get an idea when the sales price is up on property price register.

Leg End Reject

The vendor might have had a preferred buyer but put it on the market to push the price up. The preferred buyer might be a friend, relation or someone from the area. Some people have emotional attachments to property so decisions are not always rational.

Dodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119320932#Comment_119320932

They don’t have to do anything. They act for the vendor and whatever they want, they act on it. Of course normally, the vendor wants the highest bid. Sometimes (often) cash buyers are preferred. The point remains, they don’t have to inform any bidders of anything

Ficus Jam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119321259#Comment_119321259

Just to reiterate from the original post, since it's been commented on a few times:

I am a cash buyer and chain free so can close quickly

No doubt there's some reason I'm not privy to which has meant I've lost out on this property, but this isn't a cash vs mortgage issue. I have the cash in-hand and ready.

Spanish Eyes

If there were locals involved and you are not one of the known people..... it could be that the vendor sold to someone bidding that s/he knows of. Rural Ireland.

Dodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119321293#Comment_119321293

I was talking in general and responding to the post that said they have to inform you.

They can do what they like effectively

Curiousness99

I was the highest bidder on a property about a year ago, agent rang me a few days later told me house was withdrawn, saw a sale agreed sign outside the house a few weeks later and subsequently found out that it was bought by the party I was bidding against…

seems to be standard practice among some rural estate agents. Not sure what the strategy of agent was but vendor would have got more money from me as I would have bid another 10 to 15k

shesty

The vendor doesn't always want more money though.

We lost a house a few years back because although we were bidding 5k more, the seller went for the bidder who was first time buyers with no other commitments.

Ficus Jam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119321310#Comment_119321310

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119321328#Comment_119321328

This would gel a bit with the agent's lack of interest in communicating with me. Forgetting about a bid struck me as odd - surely it'd be in the agent's best interest to log every bid and use every opportunity to drive up the final selling figure? Of all the emails to 'skip your mind'!

So it seems that either there was a further offer so substantial that there's no way a counter-offer could've outpaced it, or the vendor had a specific buyer or type of buyer in mind (not me).

Xander10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058253969/house-gone-sale-agreed-highest-bidder-not-alerted

not that unusually.

Circumstances of each bidder can be relevant.

Are you a cash buyer?

Are you in a chain of selling your current house?

Are you buying to reside in it or looking to buy as an investment property?

Ficus Jam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119321392#Comment_119321392

Cash buyer.

Chain-free.

Buying for full-time residence.

irelandrover

I won't really consider someone who was only going up in 1k increments. Because I then expect them to try to start negotiating discounts later based on the smallest things. Trying to drive the price down later.

That obviously only applies if only one of the parties are increasing in 1k amounts.

Xander10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119321426#Comment_119321426

well, you tick all the right boxes. Bad on the auctioneer not updating you and giving you an opportunity of a counter offer.

eusap

Pick up the phone and call if they don't answer leave a voicemail, even though the estate agent says send emails, i would follow up with email detailing your offer

amacca

I was highest bidder on a house needing renovation in a town a good while ago

Auctioneer never got back to me, I went 1k over asking (thats about what I felt it was worth to me), auctioneer said I'd need to be going 10k over to even be entertained......it sold 1k less than my bid according to price register (maybe money changed hands under counter too for all I know)....

The property was sold to member of he family......they were only going through the process to put a fairish price on it....an outsider would only be entertained on that one if they went way over the odds I'd say

I never like going way over the market on anything unless there's another benefit/gain for me

Some properties require too much effort and investment of time and money relative to their market value due to individual circumstance....so be it.

cute geoge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058253969/house-gone-sale-agreed-highest-bidder-not-alerted

Fuk the estate agent ,get straight on to vendor ,cut out estate agent completely if he is fukacting

cruizer101

Drop a letter in the door of the house for the vendor, explaining what the situation is and explaining you would be willing to bid higher.

It might be the vendors decision to go with someone else, or EA may not have passed bid on for whatever reason.

There is no harm is dropping letter in though

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119321310#Comment_119321310

In return for getting 1000 Euro from some fella upping his bids by 1000 Euro a go, you might end up with a lifetime of hassle from a blow-in. The seller might still be in the area or have family beside it. If you were in that position, you might be inclined to take the risk you know rather than the unknown.

Ficus Jam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119321738#Comment_119321738

I don't know where the vendor lives. They're somewhere near Dublin, and this was their holiday home.

Dodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119321738#Comment_119321738

Fwiw, if I was the vendor, I wouldn’t deal with anyone who tried to contact me directly.

Ficus Jam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119321780#Comment_119321780

Seems like their agent feels the same.

macvin

When buying in a sellers market you are selling yourself as a hassle free person to deal with. Not everyone needs / wants just the higher bidder. How they approach the bid and how the seller / agent thinks they will complete the deal matters too.

I was an unfortunate buyer who took just the highest bid many years ago on a holiday home and I regretted it very quickly. It took 5 months to complete and the feckers even wanted a "water test" on a stream the rang alongside - to confirm it did not contain sewage (this was in a very scenic spot miles form any potential water issue. It was a delay tactic as they came up with another petty request the next week and another the week after.

Looking back they were too eager and kept trumping the other person by 1k.

I've bought/sold a few times since and will do a little research on the buyer before coming up with my own preferred buyer. Likewise, when buying I will make sure I come across as someone who will not delay for petty reasons and provide my solicitor details for the agent / seller to do an off the record check via their solicitor that confirms I do not delay or cause grief. (and I got an absolute bargain a couple of years ago using that with a receiver of a holiday home - he wanted a close within 3 weeks)

So my guess is you did not come across as someone they wanted to deal with and that lost the deal. Remember that the seller is also paying Capital Gains tax of 33%, so your €1,000 increase was only worth €650 (assuming 2% commission)

cute geoge

I bought a rental a few years back ,the estate agent was fobbing me off form the start and it was on market under the value and did not even want to show me the house .Finally got a viewing and at the viewing my counter bidder was also viewing and was great pals with the estate agent sort gave the game away .I bid the house up 25k in 1 k bids and it was still value goes to show what stunts they pull

cruizer101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119321780#Comment_119321780

Even if the estate agent hadn't passed on the bid to you?

Would you not want to know they aren't doing the job you are paying for.

Fair enough if the bids were passed on but given op is cash buyer with no chain it does seem strange that they wouldn't accept their highest bid or even just tell ea they need to raise bid by more than 1k.

There appears to be a lack of communication in either the ea communicating bids to vendor or communicating back to op, either way if I was vendor I would want to know that the ea who I am paying isn't doing their job.

Ficus Jam

24 hours after emailing the agent last evening to ask what was going on, still zero communication, haven't heard from her all day. At least she had updated the daft listing promptly, so I know it's definitely off the market.

Will have to wait until late this year to know how much the winning bidder offered.

I'm gobsmacked by her abysmal communication. As a vendor, I'd be unimpressed if I'm paying an agent to do her job, and she's simply ignoring 'low' 1k bids rather than putting in a few minutes of effort to get a higher bid out of them. I'd also be unimpressed as a vendor if I list with an agent whose communication skills are so poor that she's alienated potential buyers from even bothering with her properties.

cute geoge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119323575#Comment_119323575

If you are still very interested and are willing to go another 5/10k simply find out the owner .Presuming some local does maintenance /garden work/neighbour would have contacf details and find out the story at least.This looks a bit fishy so you will never know otherwise ,a few hours being nosey might be what it takes ,there is nothing ever handed to anyone on the plate!!!

spaceHopper

I think you are being shafted.

If call aren't convent and emails aren't checked, that convent for them! Send them an email but also send a whatsapp message so you know it was read and they know you know. 

1K increments are asking to be out bid. Always work out what its worth to you, make your opening offer strong and if you have to go up go up by 5K. If you go up by 1k it's 2k jump for the next person down to out bid you.

When we bought our house I tried the "if we offer 320K will the house be taken off the market today". EA said no they had a viewing booked and would honor it. I can't see an good EA been pressured into accepting an offer like that. If somebody wants the house they will not walk away.  If I was to do it again I'd say what offer would it take to close today, what's the buy now price.

If I was you I would ring the EA or their office and ask to speak to the business owner. It may be that it was sold to somebody know to the owners family...

Give the EA a chance to explain if they don't get back to you a google review would be a nuclear option but it would have your name attached to it.

Ficus Jam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119325360#Comment_119325360

I like the WhatsApp idea. I emailed them again this morning, asking (yet again) for information on the status of the property. Willing to give 24 hours for a response, but if still nothing, I'll send a msg through WhatsApp.

If the circumstances are that the vendors preferred to sell to someone they knew/someone with red hair/someone who likes dark chocolate/whatever, that's fine - it's their house. I simply want to know why my bid was ignored, and why I wasn't allowed into the process to continue to bid (or whether my bids were ever even passed onto the vendors).

My 1k bids were based on the current bid (e.g. 151k, or 126k or 201k, etc) being an obvious outbid of 1k, so I matched it with a 1k outbid. My first bid was then outbid by a 1k bid, which I outbid by a further 1k. Not sure why the agent apparently didn't like my 1k bids, but was okay with another bidder's 1k bids. I will change this tactic going forward, to something both more substantial and variable.

But regardless of the bid amount, you'd assume the agent would want to log all incoming bids. Why else would you employ an agent if they can't monitor and track incoming bids? If a bid is too paltry to pass along, a quick email 'the vendors aren't entertaining bids of less than 5k increments' would do it.

This agent's behaviour is so bizarre I still don't know what to make of it. She appears to be behaving completely counter-productively, so clearly I'm missing some piece of the puzzle.

spaceHopper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119325528#Comment_119325528

I wouldn't give it 24 hours I'd call them now. Waiting for emails what got you where you are. Call them give them no excuse.

ballyharpat

I've read about families writing a letter to the seller, saying their reasons for purchasing, such as raising a family, connections to the area etc, many people are concerned about their property going to someone they feel is the most deserving, some do it with rental properties, not necessarily the person that pays the most, but the person they feel is in a situation that deserves it.

Contrary to what some people on here claim, not all property owners are concerned only about the mighty buck. There are other things that help them sleep at night.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119325528#Comment_119325528

That property is earmarked for someone else...could be with the knowledge of the vendor or could be without...........that's the only piece of the puzzle you are missing imo.

whippet

OP - you are making a lot of assumptions - remember the EA works for the Vendor and as such has no obligation to you at all. By all means send a letter to the vendor but I'm not sure what you expect to achieve.

Interestingly - just over 10 years ago when I was buying we were the only bidder for 4 months - the type of property were were buying just had no market at the time - post 2009 collapse. So for 4 months our offer just was kept in limbo - not accepted but no other bidder. I called up one Thursday evening to enquire about the status of the offer and when the EA called me back the following morning she said a 'cash buyer has just gone sale agreed (5k up on our offer) and full payment will be in bank account on Monday'

I was really annoyed and in the pub that night I mentioned it to some one who put me straight - the new bidder was a buddy of the EA and we were just pawns to set the absolute lowest price the vendors would settle for. So my wife knocked on the door on the Saturday morning and explained the situation to the vendor. The vendor had no knowledge of a second bidder or offer - let alone a sale agreed. They called the EA on the Monday morning to tell them to accept our offer and not to consider any other offers. Getting the keys from EA was a very awkward affair.

Kurooi

The moment someone loses your email, start emailing the whole agent inbox, and any person you interacted with.

And keep chasing and pushing if you care about the property. Call their reception make sure others know you bid up.